Estrogen controle- how and with what.

[Profion9k]

Hey guys
My testosterone levels range from about 35-20nmol (8-30)
But my estrogene levels are high aswell 0.25-0.18 (0.1 - 0.17) Above high range.

So my question is:
Nolvadex is a SERM ( Selective estrogene receptor modulator ) From what i know the drug only brocks the receptors. The testosterone still aromatises into estrogene leaving it running around the body, while the receptors are still blocked?

Arimidex, Letrozol, Aromasin are AI Aromatise inhibitors. They crumble the aromatise enzyme stopping the conversion of testosterone into estrogene? In my mind this seems to be a better fit for controlling high estrogene while on TRT?

What would be better to use for my TRT regime? I know tha alot of these drugs are made as for breast cancer? But dont we have anything to help us guys on TRT? Like a freaking med made for that

- Why is nolvadex used for PCT and kick starting the HTPA? I would assume that AI´s could do the same? Or am i wrong.

Anyways I am about to see a TRT doctor tomorrow and i will set the rules:
If they do not cooperate with the use of a AI I will either go on the black market, or quite TRT. My total androgen panel is in RAGE and i should feel like a beast, but i am battling fatigue, erection problems, bloating, mood swings and a horrible feeling of shitty well-being. My testosterone levels are about 15-10nmol speaking of now, and i feel this in the form of horrible sleep, thunderclap headackes, and tiredness..

If i dont get sorted out the symptoms that i am battling while being in HIGH ranges of testosterone, I am going to quit TRT. But it seems promosing as this hospital actually tested my estrogene levels.

- As regards to the serms - ais please help out

 

[Megatron28]

I don't have time to write a full response. Sorry. But...

SERMs do not lower estrogen. They just block it from attaching to certain receptors.

AI's lower estrogen. AIs should be used with TRT if estrogen levels are too high. Many guys on TRT do not need an AI. If you do get an AI go with Arimidex or Aromasin.

Make sure you check estradiol -- not Total Estrogen when getting blood work.


Nolva and/or Clomid are used for PCT because the "trick" the pituitary into thinking your body doesn't have enough estrogen. This gets the pituitary to make more LH so that your body produces more testosterone knowing that it will aromatize into estrogen. SERMs circumvent the HPTA feedback loop.

 

[3J]

just take .25mg adex twice a week..then retest in 2 weeks..

if its too much switch to .25 once a week and see where that puts you.. or get the liquid kind and use .1 twice a week..

you just have to dial it in is all

 

[Virginian]

.. or get the liquid kind and use .1 twice a week..

I've never used the liquid. How do you measure 0.1 mg?

 

[Alpin]

Start 0.125 mg twice a week and then adjust if needed.
.25 mg may or may not be the right starting dose for you yet.
You need labs to confirm.

 

[Megatron28]

I've never used the liquid. How do you measure 0.1 mg?

It will tell you how many mg are in each ml. So just do the math and draw the correct volume into your syringe.

 

[Profion9k]

FUCK THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - New doctor wants me off Testosterone as he does not believe i need it.
This to some degree is correct as my levels I was able to obtain after chemo/surgeries were 17nmol (8-30) but jesus....
Reason why i started TRT was due to chemo tiredness and trust me, TRT fixed that! It made me able to live my life without any chemo-side effects such as fatigue n extreme tiredness. Now he wants me off.

Lost shot i had was 2ml Nebido = 330mg testosterone 6weeks ago! As of now I do feel alittle bit more tired and my sleep is horrible. He said that my total testosterone was 20nmol (8-30) 2weeks ago! This means that I am about 15nmol as of speaking now! But then he told me that my Free Testosterone is rageing high! - wich could mean that my SHBG is low?

Anywas seems like im off to a restart.... Lolololololololol
I asked for nolvadex / clomid and he said they had sides, and dident want to give it out.

So what the fuck do i do guys?

 

[Profion9k]

Is it possible to recovery good without the use of Nolva - clomid?
I have been on for about 6-7months! In theory I believe that the Nebido slowly will leave the system, making place for LH to rise slowly as testosterone declines? but what do i know.

Any supplements that have proven to work with raising LH / Decreasing estrogene?

 

[Megatron28]

Just taking you off TRT and not giving you a SERM to help Restart your HPTA is malpractice in my opinion. Time for a new doctor -- one that doesn't try to harm his patients

 

[cybrsage]

FUCK THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - New doctor wants me off Testosterone as he does not believe i need it.
This to some degree is correct as my levels I was able to obtain after chemo/surgeries were 17nmol (8-30) but jesus....
Reason why i started TRT was due to chemo tiredness and trust me, TRT fixed that! It made me able to live my life without any chemo-side effects such as fatigue n extreme tiredness. Now he wants me off.

Lost shot i had was 2ml Nebido = 330mg testosterone 6weeks ago! As of now I do feel alittle bit more tired and my sleep is horrible. He said that my total testosterone was 20nmol (8-30) 2weeks ago! This means that I am about 15nmol as of speaking now! But then he told me that my Free Testosterone is rageing high! - wich could mean that my SHBG is low?

Anywas seems like im off to a restart.... Lolololololololol
I asked for nolvadex / clomid and he said they had sides, and dident want to give it out.

So what the fuck do i do guys?

Sounds like you are in the EU? If so, not sure if you can search for a new doctor of if your government has screwed you with your healthcare system.

 

[Profion9k]

I moved from the hospital where i had my chemo, surgeries and such to the capital. So since i moved to the capital, the capital hospital will now follow my check-ups and endocrine program aswell, wich means: A new endo for a doc.

Now okay. I recalled and said that i was not pleased, but from what i understood he wants me to do bloods in 7days time! Then it´ll take about 20days before the values pop up: estrogene, testosterone ect. Before he can evaluate if it is time for a new injection or not.

So 11days ago my testosterone was 8-30 (20) wich is about 700 in US standards
As for my free testosterone it was above the limit! doc said, that since my free testosterone is that high there is no need for an injection in the near future.

i do feel that my estrogene is going into normal ranges, as my libido has increased and better erection quality! Problem is I am trying to avoid the standard protocol for Nebido wich is 4ml = 660mg active testosterone in one shoot every 12-10week... This for me just seems not good..

Old doc gave me 330mg testosterone every 3week! wich made me land high and it also accumilated over time to higher levels...

So.... I will meet up with the doc and ask for a faster ester testosterone E-C and do sub Q to stabilize my levels. But again, i believe they do not give out E-C anymore as Nebido has become the norm... Problem again is, that nebido spikes and drops hard!

In all of his mess im thinking about trying to recover my testosterone levels naturally as they were 16nmol before treatment... If lucky, and with work "my last ball" can recover to 20nmol and i would accept those levels.

Anyways i dont believe they even combat estrogen with AI, and when i asked for helping meds for restart he said they did not do it... This should be the leading clinic in Denmark but what the hell? If my Household doc, not hospital.. Is willing to cooperate, i guess he can prescribe me testosterone and we can arrange a protocol ?

 

[halfwit]

This is pretty well covered in the stickies in both the TRT forum as well as the AAS forum, but I really want to make one thing VERY clear to you:

YOU are in charge of YOUR body, and what YOU do with it. Not some doctor, not some medical board, not anyone else but YOU.

Aromatase inhibitors do lower estradiol, and the reason why they're indicated for female cancer patients is because of the fact that estradiol is a carcinogen. Now, we all do need estradiol as it's part of the balancing act, but too much is bad for the health, as is too little. I would continue interviewing doctors until you find one that not only understands how half-lives work, but also how integral testosterone is to a person's well-being.

Don't stop until you're satisfied. Nebido CAN be a fantastic choice for TRT, but it has to be done properly, and everything else must be accounted for. Stick to your guns, keep learning, and you will come out triumphant.

My .02c

 

[luckypaul]

Hey guys
My testosterone levels range from about 35-20nmol (8-30)
But my estrogene levels are high aswell 0.25-0.18 (0.1 - 0.17) Above high range.

So my question is:
Nolvadex is a SERM ( Selective estrogene receptor modulator ) From what i know the drug only brocks the receptors. The testosterone still aromatises into estrogene leaving it running around the body, while the receptors are still blocked?

Arimidex, Letrozol, Aromasin are AI Aromatise inhibitors. They crumble the aromatise enzyme stopping the conversion of testosterone into estrogene? In my mind this seems to be a better fit for controlling high estrogene while on TRT?

What would be better to use for my TRT regime? I know tha alot of these drugs are made as for breast cancer? But dont we have anything to help us guys on TRT? Like a freaking med made for that

- Why is nolvadex used for PCT and kick starting the HTPA? I would assume that AI´s could do the same? Or am i wrong.

Anyways I am about to see a TRT doctor tomorrow and i will set the rules:
If they do not cooperate with the use of a AI I will either go on the black market, or quite TRT. My total androgen panel is in RAGE and i should feel like a beast, but i am battling fatigue, erection problems, bloating, mood swings and a horrible feeling of shitty well-being. My testosterone levels are about 15-10nmol speaking of now, and i feel this in the form of horrible sleep, thunderclap headackes, and tiredness..

If i dont get sorted out the symptoms that i am battling while being in HIGH ranges of testosterone, I am going to quit TRT. But it seems promosing as this hospital actually tested my estrogene levels.

- As regards to the serms - ais please help out

If you are experiancing sides while on trt, you can use an ai. Go easy. I can run a cycle and still not need an ai. It is very easy to crash e2. I don't see many who would benifit from more than 0.25 mg adex e3d, or even a serm would be better choice if sides are mild.

Some guys do have a problem even with a low trt doseage. but in my experiance very few.

Most new guys are rubbing their nipples trying to check for gyno, no wonder their nips are raw and sensitive.

 

[luckypaul]

There are some research compainies that have a a respectable product, but with the possible consequences, pharm grade is best imo.

 

[Profion9k]

Im abit disorientated with what to do! Ill go for a blood-draw wednesday where I believe my total testosterone should be around 8-30 ( 15~ )
But I am still confused that this doctor actually tested my free testosterone.
TESTOSTERONE, FREE
Males: 9-30 ng/d............ and mine was about 35 but with a total testosterone of 20 = 700Us values.

So I should function properly even if my total testosterone drops 10 = 400Us values? but with a high free testosterone?

- Since we are at it.
I am thinking about a restart, and would like to know if there are certain supplements that will actually help with this?
Ive seen supplements that have testosterone boosting ingridience aswell as estrogene lowering ingridience? These should in theory help me while on TRT/comming off of TRT? Like reversatrol for estrogene controle?

For some reason Nolvadex scares me, i read some about liver cancer and such.

 

[Megatron28]

Im abit disorientated with what to do! Ill go for a blood-draw wednesday where I believe my total testosterone should be around 8-30 ( 15~ )
But I am still confused that this doctor actually tested my free testosterone.
TESTOSTERONE, FREE
Males: 9-30 ng/d............ and mine was about 35 but with a total testosterone of 20 = 700Us values.

So I should function properly even if my total testosterone drops 10 = 400Us values? but with a high free testosterone?

- Since we are at it.
I am thinking about a restart, and would like to know if there are certain supplements that will actually help with this?
Ive seen supplements that have testosterone boosting ingridience aswell as estrogene lowering ingridience? These should in theory help me while on TRT/comming off of TRT? Like reversatrol for estrogene controle?

For some reason Nolvadex scares me, i read some about liver cancer and such.

Weren't you diagnosed with Primary Hypogonadism? If yes, a Restart will not work.

Free T is just a function of Total Test, SHBG and Estrogen. If your estrogen is high, that means less SHBG is available to bind to testosterone since estrogen binds to SHBG as well. You really need to be looking at the full picture to try and understand what is going on.

There are no "natural" test Boosters out there that work. They are a waste of time and money.

DIM + Zinc are something you can get over the counter to help lower estrogen. It helps your body metabolize it faster.

I personally would not be concerned about using Clomid or Nolva for short-term periods as indicated for an HPTA Restart

 

[Profion9k]

Always the man! Thanks

Well, it was not really a diagnose of any hypogondanism, as my LH was 7-8-9 "perfect" but my FSH was 18 quite above. The increase in FSH could be due to a missing testicle i guess?

With a LH og 7-8-9 my testosterone landed at 16 ( 8-30 ) wich was okay I guess, but it landed at 16 comming from 8 a month prioer. This low test reading was due to chemo-sides combined with heck of a travel, this induced some sort of depression and stress on me wich i contribute to the sudden loss of beard?

Since i was fighting fatigue and depression with a testosterone level of 15. I decided to reach out for help, as i had to finish some courses that would allow me to continue my life in unversity further on " and i am here now ". So a possible restart in my case should be possible!

If i continue on TRT, I will most likely ask for a AI mid-start my nebido injection as they always shoot quite high! If he does not cooperate, i will run a Ug-AI that ill find somehow... Anyways, I am up for documentating my restart doing it all natural if people would be interrested in following that.

 

[Megatron28]

But you haven't even checked your estradiol yet to know if you need an AI, right?

 

[Profion9k]

at a testosterone level of
35 ( 8 - 30 )
1200 ( 270-1,070 )

my estrogene was 0.21 wich is above limit ( 0.1 - 0.17 ) my starting estrogene was 0.10. I believe 0.21 is around 60 on US numbers?

my 0.10 starting would be a perfect in the middle number of estrogen

 

[Megatron28]

at a testosterone level of
35 ( 8 - 30 )
1200 ( 270-1,070 )

my estrogene was 0.21 wich is above limit ( 0.1 - 0.17 ) my starting estrogene was 0.10. I believe 0.21 is around 60 on US numbers?

my 0.10 starting would be a perfect in the middle number of estrogen

You need to check Estradiol. Not estrogen.