Extreme 15lb weight gain only 2 weeks into 300 per week T use. Normal or E2 related?

[bkkdood]

I started 300/w of testosterone enanthate about two weeks ago ( divided into two shots per week Sunday/Weds ). This is my first time on test.

I was 184lbs when I started and now I am a little over 200lbs!! How the hell did I gain about 15lbs in two weeks time? I didn't go on an eating spree or quit working out. Also in photos my face looks much bigger. My friends say I don't look fatter and my clothes fit the same. Not sure wtf is going on, 15lbs in two weeks seems high. It seems like it just keeps climbing.

Other things I take are HGH 4iu ED ( been taking it the last 3 months even before starting test - no weird weight gain ) and 50-100mg of proviron ED.

I was going to have bloods drawn in another week to see how they changed from baseline but maybe I should get E2 checked sooner?

Is this normal when starting test? This is my first time.

 

[DickBlazer]

You may gotten prop instead of test e. Idk that seems like a ton of weight in two weeks for any type of test lol. Plus 300 mgs a week is not a large amount. NPP gave me big gains early. You know its test for sure?

I can tell you test bloats me up big time without a AI but not like that. How is your BP?

 

[bkkdood]

BP is 120/75 ( using a home omeron wrist cuff - not sure how accurate- previous weeks showed much lower numbers )

I'm like 99% sure it is test e. I'm using Bayer testovirone.

I'm not using any AI at the moment. Wanted to see if I got sides or my 4 week blood panel showed a high E2 before starting. But this sudden weight gain is making me think twice.

 

[oldmusclemike]

You needed to educate your self more. You don't keep an AI on hand and wait. Wait for what. Read the stickys and read about the sides of high n low Estrogen. AI is to control this and not to undo unwanted sides when you get them.

If you gained this much weight in two weeks it is water. You aren't going to build much LMM in two weeks. Good luck and read up

 

[Massacre 2.0]

I say it's water. I'm on week 3 of my cycle tomorrow and I gained about 10lbs running test e/deca which I would finger that were both going through the same thing.

 

[hiram1st]

You needed to educate your self more. You don't keep an AI on hand and wait. Wait for what. Read the stickys and read about the sides of high n low Estrogen. AI is to control this and not to undo unwanted sides when you get them.

If you gained this much weight in two weeks it is water. You aren't going to build much LMM in two weeks. Good luck and read up

Agreed.

You've never run test and start off without an AI?

Get yourself some adex/stane ASAP and start using it. Probably would be a good idea to get blood work to see where your at and start a diary so you can track how you react at different doses. Thats what did when starting out .

You just don't have to worry about water retention there are alot of other negative sides to high e2. You don't want to be in here asking for help on how to reverse gyno and having to abort your cycle


Definitley read the ology facts link:
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a.../675497-ology-frequently-asked-questions.html

 

[Black Beard]

AI doesn't have to be run right away, especially with low doses. Some people do not aromatize a lot, and aromatization of test is not instant. Do you have any e2 symptoms? Have you gotten blood work?

 

[Black Beard]

Abstract

Testosterone replacement improves quality of life and is aromatized in men in adipose tissues to estrogen. Hyperestrogenism is believed to be harmful to male sexuality. This is a description of our experience of screening 34,016 men in the Low T Centers, of which approximately 50% were converted to treatment. Men were treated with injectable testosterone, and we have available data from 2009 to 2014. The data were extracted from our electronic health record (AdvancedMD) of 35 Low T Centers across the United States. In all, 7,215 (20.2%) out of the 34,016 patients had high estradiol levels defined as ***8805;42.6 pg/ml. Estradiol was measured using electro-chemiluminescence immunoassay. Of the patients who had high estradiol levels, the age distribution was as follows: 132/989 (13.3%) were older than 65 years, 3,753/16,955 (22.1%) were between 45 and 65 years; 2,968/15,857 (18.7%) were between 25 and 44 years, 7/215 (3.3%) were younger than 25 years. The difference between extreme age groups (<25 and ***8805;65) was statistically significant using a chi-square test (p = .013). The correlation coefficient of serum estradiol to age was .53,SD = 8.21. It was observed that practitioners used aromatase inhibitor and selective estrogen receptor modulator to treat symptoms of hyperestrogenism, irrespective of blood estradiol levels. Gynecomastia was rarely documented as a reason for the prescription. Our finding was that high estradiol levels were not associated with higher rates of low libido but established higher rates of documented low libido with those with normal or lower estradiol levels. The difference was statistically significant (p < .05).





Elevated serum estradiol is associated with increased libido in men receiving testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), according to researchers.

In a study of 423 men on TRT, Ranjith Ramasamy, MD, working with Larry Lipshultz, MD, at the Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, measured subjects' testosterone and estradiol levels and asked the men to rate the quality of their libido using a five-point Likert scale (1= terrible, 5 = excellent). The researchers categorized the men as having low or high testosterone (below or above 300 ng/dL, respectively) and low or high estradiol (below 5 and above 5 ng/dL (50 pg/mL), respectively).

Men with high serum testosterone levels reported significantly greater libido than men with low level and those with high serum estradiol levels had significantly greater libido than subjects with low levels. In all, 60.4% of men with both high testosterone and estradiol levels reported very good or excellent libido (score as 4 or 5) compared with 31.3% of participants with both low testosterone and estradiol levels, the researchers reported in European Urology (published online ahead of print). These results are expected to be presented at the American Urological Association annual meeting in Orlando this May.

 

[Black Beard]

E2 in the higher range is associated with higher libido. I'd bet 40-60 pg/ml would do it. Depends on the person though. I feel awesome at 42 pg/ml.

 

[Black Beard]

Abstract

PURPOSE: Several clinical studies testify the critical role played by estrogens in male bone metabolism. The aim of our study is to assess the effect of a single injection of testosterone enanthate in a group of hypogonadal men on 17***946; estradiol serum levels and some bone ********* parameters.

METHOD: Twenty-one hypogonadal males were given one testosterone enanthate injection (250 mg). Blood samples were drawn before the injection and after 1, 2 and 3 weeks. The following variables were measured: Total testosterone (TT), 17***946; estradiol (17***946; E2), Sex hormone binding globulin, total alkaline phosphatase, osteocalcin, and C-telopeptide of type I collagen (CTx).

RESULTS: After testosterone injection, both TT and 17***946; E2 increased, peaking 1 week after the injection. Individual observation of the response of 17***946; E2 to testosterone showed that a subgroup (n = 9) failed to respond with any increase in 17***946; E2 at any of the weekly tests (group E2-), while the remainder (n = 12) showed a significant increase in 17***946; E2, which reached a mean value three times higher than at baseline (group E2+). The E2- patients reached a TT peak lower than that observed in the E+ group. CTx serum levels declined progressively in the E2+ group, reaching the significance (p = 0.03) at the end of the study, while it did not change in E- group.

CONCLUSION: This study suggests that a single injection of testosterone might have different effects on the production of endogenous estrogens, and a significant reduction of bone resorption parameters takes place only in the patients who show a significant increase of 17ß estradiol in response to testosterone administration.








Some people don't aromatize a lot. Others aromatize like crazy. Some in between. Blood work and symptoms is the way to go.

 

[Milton]

Drink more water, dont hold back now that its water gain, go ahead and drink more water, also add more fiber to your diet and take advantage of the hot sauna to sweat out some if it and keep those pores fresh too. is my two cents worth.

 

[halfwit]

AI doesn't have to be run right away, especially with low doses. Some people do not aromatize a lot, and aromatization of test is not instant. Do you have any e2 symptoms? Have you gotten blood work?

I truly do like you BB, but the average Joe is going to need an AI for 600mg/wk of test as the OP is running. Two weeks is a bit early for just T/E, but testoviron has prop in it.

At 8lbs a gallon of water, and moon face in the OP, I'm pretty sure we have a case of high estradiol.


(your studies focused on non-supraphysiological test levels buddy, which we both know is a HUGE difference. I do totally agree with you as a general statement though. )

My .02c

 

[oldmusclemike]

I haven't read anything yet that says an AI hurts you or holds something back (gains) . Someone please show me why one wouldn't use an AI. This considering they do not know where they stand BW wise. Also do not have a clue as to recognizing the symptoms of high or low Estradiol.

So I use this simple adage of mine sighting the analogy of tying off my safety rope when working on a roof. Simple I know. But I may never need it and I am in good knowledge when I start to slip. I know what that feels like...But if I have a problem , identified or not the time for the safety rope is before a problem.

Also by the time you know you have a problem you may have to then reverse something. That can be a bitch. Or lost days of appetite and or no energy etc... It only makes sense to put in line on day one, or two or three, OK? The beginning, a preventative measure.

We/ I and many young bucks will forget to plug in the AI if they wait. Hell why plug this shit in when all is well and it isn't going to get me big. Now that's for the young and restless ha! But if you are going to do it the right way and as we tell everyone, "don't start until you have everything" well just plug it in on day one.

I'm not being a smart ass but I don't know, really I don't if there is any reason to not take it unless your are G2G and your blood work says so. I'm open to someone telling me and where n what to read.

That's all I got on this one.

 

[halfwit]

The ONLY reason I can think of is if they KNOW they don't need it for a specific dose. Crashing estradiol sucks, but as long as baby steps are taken, and a blood test is done - I too like to err on the conservative side and say run an AI.

The only negative impact on bloods from AI use outside estradiol is a potential impact on lipids from say, letrozole. I posted a really good study awhile ago showing how aromasin is slightly beneficial, adex is on the border of doing nothing/slightly having a negative impact, and letro being harsh on them.

At least that's all I've got on the topic.

 

[oldmusclemike]

Thanks Halfwit man for the feedback.

I can tell someone what it is like to crash their Estradiol because I did it, yes I did. OMG ya know I tell ya it is some kinda bad. I felt sick and had no appetite. It was so hard to get my ass to the gym.

I have told people to be careful with Arimidex it's strong and you can big time ruin a good cycle if you crash your Estradiol and don't catch it quick n get it back.

I just feel better if I use it from day one or two. At the very beginning. Also I usually run test @ 750mgs or more. ...

 

[ClarkFit]

I haven't read anything yet that says an AI hurts you or holds something back (gains) . Someone please show me why one wouldn't use an AI. This considering they do not know where they stand BW wise. Also do not have a clue as to recognizing the symptoms of high or low Estradiol.

So I use this simple adage of mine sighting the analogy of tying off my safety rope when working on a roof. Simple I know. But I may never need it and I am in good knowledge when I start to slip. I know what that feels like...But if I have a problem , identified or not the time for the safety rope is before a problem.

Also by the time you know you have a problem you may have to then reverse something. That can be a bitch. Or lost days of appetite and or no energy etc... It only makes sense to put in line on day one, or two or three, OK? The beginning, a preventative measure.

We/ I and many young bucks will forget to plug in the AI if they wait. Hell why plug this shit in when all is well and it isn't going to get me big. Now that's for the young and restless ha! But if you are going to do it the right way and as we tell everyone, "don't start until you have everything" well just plug it in on day one.

I'm not being a smart ass but I don't know, really I don't if there is any reason to not take it unless your are G2G and your blood work says so. I'm open to someone telling me and where n what to read.

That's all I got on this one.

William Llewellyn wrote in his book ANABOLICS, that AI's should only be used if severe side effects occur. Estrogen has anabolic properties.

We must, however, not be led into thinking that estrogen serves no benefit. It is actually a desirable hormone in many regards. Athletes have known for years that estrogenic steroids are the best mass builders, but it is only recently that we are finally coming to understand the underlying mechanisms why. It appears that reasons go beyond the simple size, weight, and strength increases that one would attribute to estrogen-related water retention, with this hormone actually having a direct effect on the process of anabolism. This is manifest through increases in glucose utilization, growth hormone secretion,and androgen receptor proliferation.

 

[whoremoan]

You needed to educate your self more. You don't keep an AI on hand and wait. Wait for what. Read the stickys and read about the sides of high n low Estrogen. AI is to control this and not to undo unwanted sides when you get them.

If you gained this much weight in two weeks it is water. You aren't going to build much LMM in two weeks. Good luck and read up

You need to educate yourself more .. You don't NEED to run an ai from the start ??? If I a sticky says that then that's a load of shit and needs to be taken down

 

[whoremoan]

Yes !

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Are you on 300 per week or 300 per injection?

 

[bigben66]

William Llewellyn wrote in his book ANABOLICS, that AI's should only be used if severe side effects occur. Estrogen has anabolic properties.

We must, however, not be led into thinking that estrogen serves no benefit. It is actually a desirable hormone in many regards. Athletes have known for years that estrogenic steroids are the best mass builders, but it is only recently that we are finally coming to understand the underlying mechanisms why. It appears that reasons go beyond the simple size, weight, and strength increases that one would attribute to estrogen-related water retention, with this hormone actually having a direct effect on the process of anabolism. This is manifest through increases in glucose utilization, growth hormone secretion,and androgen receptor proliferation.

William Llewellyn's book is a massive reason as to why many people are cycling awfully....

Just because you write a book - it does NOT make you an expert!