Extreme 15lb weight gain only 2 weeks into 300 per week T use. Normal or E2 related?

[ClarkFit]

William Llewellyn's book is a massive reason as to why many people are cycling awfully....

Just because you write a book - it does NOT make you an expert!

The man knows his shit. And in my early opinion, awful cycles (within reason). Perhaps improper blood monitoring, AI use, PCT, etc. are what make these reactions awful. Everyone reacts differently. There is no ubiquitous approach from one man to the next. These guys just coming in and going against their own initial research to please their peers on the forum end up doing exactly what they wanted to do on their first cycle the second go. And probably find the results on target of their goals. I think the book is extremely detailed and comprehensive. I recommend it to rookies and vets.

Who has done more research than the author? I know of no one who has an integral approach to AAS studies. I personally know TRT Doctor's and I have read about many. Most of them are naive. I just feel like you cannot prescribe cycles on people with information regarding age weight BF and bloods. There are many more variables here. And when that person reads valid information for them selves, they can use their own reasoning and logic.

 

[bigben66]

William Llewellyn wrote in his book ANABOLICS, that AI's should only be used if severe side effects occur. Estrogen has anabolic properties.

Point in fact! "AI's should only be used if severe side effects occur!"

Remind me to put a sign up on my stable door saying "Please close this door AFTER the horse has bolted!"

 

[ClarkFit]

I'm just going with what the most knowledgable scientist say. Who are you?

 

[halfwit]

I'm just going with what the most knowledgable scientist say. Who are you?

He's just a guy that knows how to sift through the bullshit via experience. Ya know, like most of the guys on this board.

I get it, you downloaded a ridiculously outdated book from a guy that STOLE ideas as his own (DPR knows more about this than I do) and claims to be an authority. To the beginner this seems like a logical step.

Then you have to ask yourself, "why aren't there more books out there from other AAS gurus and scientists?"

Perhaps because it's ILLEGAL, and few are willing to openly associate with the stigmas and potential investigations thats come with openly admitting to such.

But, by all means feel smug and call out guys that have forgotten more than most.

 

[halfwit]

You need to educate yourself more .. You don't NEED to run an ai from the start ??? If I a sticky says that then that's a load of shit and needs to be taken down

Reasoning please.

I would like something to respond to other than uninformed opinion.

 

[ClarkFit]

He's just a guy that knows how to sift through the bullshit via experience. Ya know, like most of the guys on this board.

I get it, you downloaded a ridiculously outdated book from a guy that STOLE ideas as his own (DPR knows more about this than I do) and claims to be an authority. To the beginner this seems like a logical step.

Then you have to ask yourself, "why aren't there more books out there from other AAS gurus and scientists?"

Perhaps because it's ILLEGAL, and few are willing to openly associate with the stigmas and potential investigations thats come with openly admitting to such.

But, by all means feel smug and call out guys that have forgotten more than most.

But it isn't illegal anymore, everyone is on test. Although, unlike other pharma' so don't see doc's pushing massive amounts of test for profit. Not yet anyway.

All bull aside, I am eager to learn as much as possible. I'm just frustrated with the constant contradictions on forums. This guy had a great result for this cycle while the next guy had horrible sides and results.

Not trying to discredit anyone, I just want facts. And the "out dated" book seems to have some serious information. I like serious information. Not "this works for me" posting.

 

[Milton]

But it isn't illegal anymore, everyone is on test. Although, unlike other pharma' so don't see doc's pushing massive amounts of test for profit. Not yet anyway.

All bull aside, I am eager to learn as much as possible. I'm just frustrated with the constant contradictions on forums. This guy had a great result for this cycle while the next guy had horrible sides and results.

Not trying to discredit anyone, I just want facts. And the "out dated" book seems to have some serious information. I like serious information. Not "this works for me" posting.

different body compositions, you cannot expect the same result from each person. If it was that easy there would only be about 10 threads here in all these forums and I would be out panhandling on the streets for food. lol

 

[halfwit]

But it isn't illegal anymore, everyone is on test. Although, unlike other pharma' so don't see doc's pushing massive amounts of test for profit. Not yet anyway.

All bull aside, I am eager to learn as much as possible. I'm just frustrated with the constant contradictions on forums. This guy had a great result for this cycle while the next guy had horrible sides and results.

Not trying to discredit anyone, I just want facts. And the "out dated" book seems to have some serious information. I like serious information. Not "this works for me" posting.

Testosterone in the US is NOT legal for personal use unless accompanied by a script. It is a scheduled drug in the same class as many other "high abuse potential" drugs like Marijuana.

TRT (which is legal) refers to doses far smaller than used to change body composition to the extreme many desire. As such, the requirements for ancillary drugs, like AI's will be less.

There are two glaring problems in the AAS community:

1. People don't understand that no two people are the same, so it's often exactly as you point out; what worked for John won't for Jim. This leads to frustration as people like hearing from folks with similar situations and being able to compare results.

2. A HUGE portion of the foundation of knowledge is from anecdotal evidence (aka bro-science). Things like side effects, dosing, length of time on, PCT, optimal stacks, OTC remedies, training philosophies, et cetera all come from (in part) to guys that were here before us and didn't have the luxury we do of the Internet/medical (obtainable) science.

Sadly, even things that seem intuitively obvious can be wrong, which makes it more difficult to get the real message out there as many are resistant to listen to someone other than "that jacked old guy from the gym". (or a book by an author with some impressive credentials)

Stick around, we'll see if you can't pick up enough to see for yourself.

 

[oldmusclemike]

First I apologize I left the forum and left my in-house light on. I just got back.

You need to educate yourself more .. You don't NEED to run an ai from the start ??? If I a sticky says that then that's a load of shit and needs to be taken down

Now Whoremoan Take a break bud. I think If you read my Post below you will find that I asked for more info and info that I had no clue of and ergo here it all is...more info. So thanks for sharing. !

I haven't read anything yet that says an AI hurts you or holds something back (gains) . Someone please show me why one wouldn't use an AI. This considering they do not know where they stand BW wise. Also do not have a clue as to recognizing the symptoms of high or low Estradiol.

So I use this simple adage of mine sighting the analogy of tying off my safety rope when working on a roof. Simple I know. But I may never need it and I am in good knowledge when I start to slip. I know what that feels like...But if I have a problem , identified or not the time for the safety rope is before a problem.

Also by the time you know you have a problem you may have to then reverse something. That can be a bitch. Or lost days of appetite and or no energy etc... It only makes sense to put in line on day one, or two or three, OK? The beginning, a preventative measure.

We/ I and many young bucks will forget to plug in the AI if they wait. Hell why plug this shit in when all is well and it isn't going to get me big. Now that's for the young and restless ha! But if you are going to do it the right way and as we tell everyone, "don't start until you have everything" well just plug it in on day one.

I'm not being a smart ass but I don't know, really I don't if there is any reason to not take it unless your are G2G and your blood work says so. I'm open to someone telling me and where n what to read. That's all I got on this one.

Thanks Halfwit man for the feedback.

I can tell someone what it is like to crash their Estradiol because I did it, yes I did. OMG ya know I tell ya it is some kinda bad. I felt sick and had no appetite. It was so hard to get my ass to the gym.

I have told people to be careful with Arimidex it's strong and you can big time ruin a good cycle if you crash your Estradiol and don't catch it quick n get it back.

I just feel better if I use it from day one or two. At the very beginning. Also I usually run test @ 750mgs or more. ...

So guys I have suggested to people to start their AI from the beginning and also to get blood work to adjust. Very few people here especially the newbies are running Test 500mgs wk or excess. And their E is going to rise. Why have to stop something rather than prevent it. WE hear numerous cases of these guys coming on here and want to reverse their Gyno or have some other complications to correct and we ask Did you run an AI and they answer What's that, or no or I just started because of this problem. Oh well... I stand by my posts. I'm from the old school 80's and have run cycles the old bro-science way. And now scientifically and I'm glad I run my AI.

Thanks for all the good info guys.

 

[Milton]

Testosterone in the US is NOT legal for personal use unless accompanied by a script. It is a scheduled drug in the same class as many other "high abuse potential" drugs like Marijuana.

TRT (which is legal) refers to doses far smaller than used to change body composition to the extreme many desire. As such, the requirements for ancillary drugs, like AI's will be less.

There are two glaring problems in the AAS community:

1. People don't understand that no two people are the same, so it's often exactly as you point out; what worked for John won't for Jim. This leads to frustration as people like hearing from folks with similar situations and being able to compare results.

2. A HUGE portion of the foundation of knowledge is from anecdotal evidence (aka bro-science). Things like side effects, dosing, length of time on, PCT, optimal stacks, OTC remedies, training philosophies, et cetera all come from (in part) to guys that were here before us and didn't have the luxury we do of the Internet/medical (obtainable) science.

Sadly, even things that seem intuitively obvious can be wrong, which makes it more difficult to get the real message out there as many are resistant to listen to someone other than "that jacked old guy from the gym". (or a book by an author with some impressive credentials)

Stick around, we'll see if you can't pick up enough to see for yourself.

Very well said, thank you so much. If I may also add that alot of younger kids/adults out there are listening to the biggest guy in the gym instead of doing their own thinking. Shortcuts to thinking will hurt one later in life.

 

[bkkdood]

As an update to my original post for this thread - I got bloods done and TT = >1500 ng/dl ( was past max range ) and E2 = 75.2pg/ml. I started taking Adex .5mg and will post bloods again at end of the month to see if it stopped the E2 surge.

Also just to re-iterate my current "stack" is

HGH - 4iu ED
Test-E - 300 per week ( split into 2 pins )
HCG - 500 per week ( split into 2 pins )
proviron - 25mg ED ( was doing 50-100 to experiment ).

I'd been on the HGH for several months already before starting T.

 

[ClarkFit]

And your not seeing or feeling results?! That must be a little unsettling, GH is expensive.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

As an update to my original post for this thread - I got bloods done and TT = >1500 ng/dl ( was past max range ) and E2 = 75.2pg/ml. I started taking Adex .5mg and will post bloods again at end of the month to see if it stopped the E2 surge.

Also just to re-iterate my current "stack" is

HGH - 4iu ED
Test-E - 300 per week ( split into 2 pins )
HCG - 500 per week ( split into 2 pins )
proviron - 25mg ED ( was doing 50-100 to experiment ).

I'd been on the HGH for several months already before starting T.

Are you weighing yourself at a constant point e.g first thing in the morning naked.

 

[Black Beard]

Halfwit, AI is definitely needed 95% of the time @ 600 mg per week. The way i read it, OP was taking 300 mg split twice a week, aka 150 mg x2. My post was in regards to <300 mg per week.

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

Why would you ever run a cycle with out an Aromatise inhibitor. So here is the good news all the bloat in your face isn't going anywhere for a long time....

 

[juced_porkchop]

i start my AI from start of cycle and up dose slightly if needed. i taper down dose as i finish cycle and go back to hrt. others should end it when you start pct IMO. but dont WAIT for issues to then start runing it. and its not JUST about gyno why people use an AI, keeping estro in check is always a good idea for various reasons.
water lbs from bloat dont mean jack IMO, it drive me cray when i see people say "dont use an AI it will limit your gains"

yes OP is using a lowr cycle dose, but it can still be too high for him to not use an AI at all. reeally i woulda just gone with 500mg ew and not wasted time with 300mg ew , but thats just me.

good luck