Faster Tendon Recovery? Advice.

[ImAuNatural]

Long story short.

- May this year dislocated shoulder, tore labrum from 2:00-4:30 position, also have severe pain in front of shoulder (bicep tendon)

- Did PT for 6 weeks before i found out what was wrong with my shoulder (no help)

- Went to followup with Ortho Surgeon was given cortisone shot in shoulder (helped alot), he then ordered an MRI
- Got MRI results (see first bullet)

- Surgeon says he can do surgery on me to repair labrum but labrum is sitting in place and says the cortisone shot should take away the bicep tendon pain (at this point it has been 3 months, still hasnt healed)

- Never have pain in labrum (deep in shoulder joint) only on the top of my front deltoid from bicep tendon.

- I put off surgery to see fi everything would heal up and he suggested i start lifting again with light weights to test my shoulder stability etc.

- I have been working chest and shoulders now for about 1 month.

- I cannot do any BB bench, DB bench, Dips, Decline Bench, or even pushups. (way too much pain)

- I can do landmine presses for chest and cable flyes, pec deck flyes, and close grip hammer strength all with no problem.

- I can do side lateral raises with no problem, front raises cause slight pain, and rear delt flyes no problem, also i can do military DB press with no problem if i use a heavy weight 60lbs,70lbs, and 80lbs. But if i try to military press with 30lbs it hurts.

- I don't want to do surgery if i can avoid it. Especially right now because i am in school and i am on cycle plus i want to compete next year so bad (i wanted to this year but i couldn't since i got hurt).

- Anyone have experience with this? What can i do/should i do? Anyway to help my tendons heal faster?

 

[darkwing86]

I reealy cant help you here too much , im also interested in this thread for a personal bicep tendon issue ( forearm joint ) when training biceps in general and even slight tricep tendon (elbow joint) pain i get when doing overhead's with a dumbell . From What i know ImAuNatural , deca helps relieve joint pain from increased synovial fluid but not permanent . Coticosteroids you said youve tried and no help ? Omega slighly aid in joint relief but no to that extent . Maybe HGH ... but thats something im not experienced with. Deca may however help them become stronger again and repair over time . Just throwing out anything i know .

 

[ImAuNatural]

I reealy cant help you here too much , im also interested in this thread for a personal bicep tendon issue ( forearm joint ) when training biceps in general and even slight tricep tendon (elbow joint) pain i get when doing overhead's with a dumbell . From What i know ImAuNatural , deca helps relieve joint pain from increased synovial fluid but not permanent . Coticosteroids you said youve tried and no help ? Omega slighly aid in joint relief but no to that extent . Maybe HGH ... but thats something im not experienced with. Deca may however help them become stronger again and repair over time . Just throwing out anything i know .

Thanks for the input. I take Fish Oil daily and eat tilapia regularly. I started my cycle of Anadrol, Deca, Test about two weeks ago so hopefully once the Deca kicks in it may help some but im not counting on it.

 

[Catbug159]

Not to sound like Mr. Know-it-All but curious why you jumped on a cycle when you knew of an existing injury? Oh well, what's done is done. Not the expert and you won't like this advice but it's probably better to quit the cycle and put it on hold. Have a good friend who had shoulder surgery this past September; now being basically October he doesn't regret it one bit. His PT is going well but said it did take some time to get his mind off lifting. Doing sober and non athletic activities helped him a bunch. It should be easy for you to find something on campus and you'll start meeting a lot more people.

I don't know much about the AAS world but maybe HGH is something to look in to.

 

[Milton]

Not to sound like Mr. Know-it-All but curious why you jumped on a cycle when you knew of an existing injury?

This brings up a good question, when should you or not cycle when injured?

 

[Gbrad]

This brings up a good question, when should you or not cycle when injured?

I would think muscular injury would benefit with increased doses (blast cycle whatever). Connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, maybe even hernia) no way. Curious to see what others think too.

 

[e92]

i did a lot of research on this because in december i tore my tendon in my hand and needed surgery. theoretically, HGH would be the the best healer. lots of it. if you have the funds.

then there's EQ, which promotes collagen synthesis.

there's also a peptide or whatever category it's in, called TB-500. i used that during my healing process and did spot injections in my bicep and forearm. i healed pretty quick but i'm not sure if i just healed fast or if it was the TB500. i also supplemented collagen.

good luck

 

[bigben66]

For repairing connective tissues, only long term GH use will help, certain AAS will 'mask' the pain, but they won't help you regenerate.

The only thing you might want to consider researching is a peptide called TB500 - I used it (along with a couple of other compounds) when I detached my tricep tendon, and it certainly seemed to aid my recovery post-op.

BigBen

 

[bigben66]

I would think muscular injury would benefit with increased doses (blast cycle whatever). Connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, maybe even hernia) no way. Curious to see what others think too.

You're most definitely right, but you can utilize AAS to ensure you 'maintain' muscle with minimal stimulation, while you heal.

As long as you are educated, disciplined and aware of your body - you can take compounds as per a cycle, do the bare minimum in the gym so as not to jeopardise or exacerbate the initial injury (rehab physio type workouts) - and you'll find that the muscle you had prior to injury will pretty much remain in situ.

I utilized this theory recently nursing a detached tricep tendon. I systematically worked out which exercises I could do safely, and then executed other exercises such as presses just on my good side. This definitely kept the body in a state where it was being worked and therefore maintained muscle. Making recovery a lot more tolerable and psychologically easier to deal with.

EDIT: This method all goes 'tits up' the moment you forget you are in recovery mode, and your mind moves onto the mentality that you are cycling for gains!!!

 

[ImAuNatural]

Not to sound like Mr. Know-it-All but curious why you jumped on a cycle when you knew of an existing injury? Oh well, what's done is done. Not the expert and you won't like this advice but it's probably better to quit the cycle and put it on hold. Have a good friend who had shoulder surgery this past September; now being basically October he doesn't regret it one bit. His PT is going well but said it did take some time to get his mind off lifting. Doing sober and non athletic activities helped him a bunch. It should be easy for you to find something on campus and you'll start meeting a lot more people.

I don't know much about the AAS world but maybe HGH is something to look in to.

I appreciate the advice. I wont be coming off of cycle it already so sucked being out of the gym for 3 months and im finally back to where i was before size wise plus i have plans to compete next year and surgery would ruin that for me. Also i found some research articles that show SLAP repair coupled with Bicep Tendon repair had bad outcomes vs one or the other on its own and i would need both. I wont be meeting people on campus im usually with my girlfriend at school all the time and we just kind of keep to ourselves for the most part. Thanks again for the advice, and im not up for running HGH i am a broke college student lol.

 

[ImAuNatural]

You're most definitely right, but you can utilize AAS to ensure you 'maintain' muscle with minimal stimulation, while you heal.

As long as you are educated, disciplined and aware of your body - you can take compounds as per a cycle, do the bare minimum in the gym so as not to jeopardise or exacerbate the initial injury (rehab physio type workouts) - and you'll find that the muscle you had prior to injury will pretty much remain in situ.

I utilized this theory recently nursing a detached tricep tendon. I systematically worked out which exercises I could do safely, and then executed other exercises such as presses just on my good side. This definitely kept the body in a state where it was being worked and therefore maintained muscle. Making recovery a lot more tolerable and psychologically easier to deal with.

This is exactly my thought process. I am obviously not able to work my chest as well as i would like to so with the help of AAS and coupled with doing what exercises I can do i am seeing some slight progress in my chest which is gratifying.

I do not do any exercise if i feel pain in my shoulder/bicep tendon. I stop that exercise immediately and i always warm up before each exercise i start with low weight higher reps then work my way to heavier weight with lower reps with every exercise even if my chest is pumped from a previous exercise just to be safe.

I do a lot of band work and RC strengthening as well as scapular strengthening also.

I believe my PT for 6 weeks made my injury worse (insurance would not cover and MRI until I had done 6 weeks of PT) my PT diagnosed my injury as a AC Seperation and i was being treated for this rather than a laberal tear and bicep tendon tear. The surgeon told me that if they would have known it was a laberal tear they would have put me in a sling for 6 weeks at the time of my injury. I was only in the sling for 5 days and then i started slowly moving it around and stuff but i couldnt move it too much due to the pain.

 

[bigben66]

This is exactly my thought process. I am obviously not able to work my chest as well as i would like to so with the help of AAS and coupled with doing what exercises I can do i am seeing some slight progress in my chest which is gratifying.

I do not do any exercise if i feel pain in my shoulder/bicep tendon. I stop that exercise immediately and i always warm up before each exercise i start with low weight higher reps then work my way to heavier weight with lower reps with every exercise even if my chest is pumped from a previous exercise just to be safe.

I do a lot of band work and RC strengthening as well as scapular strengthening also.

I believe my PT for 6 weeks made my injury worse (insurance would not cover and MRI until I had done 6 weeks of PT) my PT diagnosed my injury as a AC Seperation and i was being treated for this rather than a laberal tear and bicep tendon tear. The surgeon told me that if they would have known it was a laberal tear they would have put me in a sling for 6 weeks at the time of my injury. I was only in the sling for 5 days and then i started slowly moving it around and stuff but i couldnt move it too much due to the pain.

Just be careful!

I'm not blowing my own trumpet here, but I've been weight training for 25+ years now, I know my body inside out, I've developed a top-notch mind-muscle connection and I know 'exactly' how hard I can push it.

If you forget for one split second your limitations and current structural weaknesses - you could cause a whole world of pain.

When I set up my plan as a rehab log on eroids I got myself banned because every single one of their vets disagreed with my methods - and you know what, for the majority of gym users, they were right.

I knew the risks, I took a calculated gamble, and fortunately it paid off, I'm still not home and dry, but I still have a physique that would put most 44yr olds to shame.

You might well not be so lucky!

 

[ImAuNatural]

Just be careful!

I'm not blowing my own trumpet here, but I've been weight training for 25+ years now, I know my body inside out, I've developed a top-notch mind-muscle connection and I know 'exactly' how hard I can push it.

If you forget for one split second your limitations and current structural weaknesses - you could cause a whole world of pain.

When I set up my plan as a rehab log on eroids I got myself banned because every single one of their vets disagreed with my methods - and you know what, for the majority of gym users, they were right.

I knew the risks, I took a calculated gamble, and fortunately it paid off, I'm still not home and dry, but I still have a physique that would put most 44yr old to shame.

You might well not be so lucky!

Well I appreciate the advice and your time. I am still going to continue with my current routine but i am taking very good care of my shoulder, I would give anything to go back in time and erase the injury from happening but it is what it is so i just have to deal with it and see if it heals on its own and if not then the option for surgery will always be there.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

I'll echo catbug's opinion that starting a cycle when you have a pre-existing injury that needs surgery is a pretty stupid idea.

Deca will only mask the pain, it will do absolutely nothing for a pre-existing injury & is ridiculously overrated for its "healing" properties.
Blasting is also a stupid idea since high dosed anabolics can actually weaken your tendons further long term & you already have a tendon injury to begin with so...do the math.

GH, TB-500 and possibly EQ are the only compounds worth looking at along with a TRT dose of test to maintain mass.

 

[Gbrad]

You're most definitely right, but you can utilize AAS to ensure you 'maintain' muscle with minimal stimulation, while you heal.

As long as you are educated, disciplined and aware of your body - you can take compounds as per a cycle, do the bare minimum in the gym so as not to jeopardise or exacerbate the initial injury (rehab physio type workouts) - and you'll find that the muscle you had prior to injury will pretty much remain in situ.

I utilized this theory recently nursing a detached tricep tendon. I systematically worked out which exercises I could do safely, and then executed other exercises such as presses just on my good side. This definitely kept the body in a state where it was being worked and therefore maintained muscle. Making recovery a lot more tolerable and psychologically easier to deal with.

EDIT: This method all goes 'tits up' the moment you forget you are in recovery mode, and your mind moves onto the mentality that you are cycling for gains!!!

I hear ya and see that point about keeping intensity and focus in check as not to reinjure or freshly injure a "compensatory" arm, leg, side of body while staying off the injured one. I guess my thinking mAinly relates to increased test doses causing decreased collagen synthesis if I remember correctly. So maybe the type of compounds used would be a consideration too.

 

[ImAuNatural]

I'll echo catbug's opinion that starting a cycle when you have a pre-existing injury that needs surgery is a pretty stupid idea.

Deca will only mask the pain, it will do absolutely nothing for a pre-existing injury & is ridiculously overrated for its "healing" properties.
Blasting is also a stupid idea since high dosed anabolics can actually weaken your tendons further long term & you already have a tendon injury to begin with so...do the math.

GH, TB-500 and possibly EQ are the only compounds worth looking at along with a TRT dose of test to maintain mass.

Not doubting you but do you have any research studies that show AAS actually reduces tendon strength or is it not a matter of using AAS increases muscle mass/strength faster than the tendons/ligaments can become stronger?

If it is the latter then i believe I am okay because I am not increasing my weight anymore than I previously had on chest/shoulders I am simply doing the exercises I have been doing that have not been causing any pain or symptoms. I don't believe Deca will mask the pain as it is not a joint issue but rather a tendon issue. My labrum being a joint problem may receive help from the Deca but I have never felt any pain in my laberal area.

My tendon injury came from a dislocation of my shoulder due to wresting and getting taken down/slammed onto my back.

The cortisone shot did mask the pain of the bicep tendon but it was to reduce inflammation so the tendon could begin to heal faster. The pain is very acute as in i either feel it completely or i dont feel it at all.

I can do 180lbs (4x45lb plates) on the bar for landmine presses and feel no pain at all. I can do 80lb low to high cable flyes and feel no pain at all. However if i simply lay on a flat bench and just raise an empty 45lb bar down to my chest i feel the pain. If i do a wide arm pushup i feel it. I cant rotate my arm freely and move it around and fell no pain, it is only when pressing forward with a wide grip that hurts or stretching back like a doorway stretch.

and as for maintaining mass deca,test, and anadrol are doing just fine, im getting bigger, i am up about 15lbs give or take a few in only two weeks. My chest was flat from not working it for 3 months but the past month or so it has came back to where it was previously and maybe even bigger now that i have gained weight.

Also i am not cycling just to increase my chest/shoulders or maintain their size but I also have other body parts that need to grow like my back, arms, and legs, and core, etc so my cycle is mostly to grow those areas but if my chest and shoulders grow from he little bit of work i am able to do with them thats just an added bonus.

I have gotten much stronger since starting my cycle and have upped the weight i use for back, legs and arms but my chest/shoulders have remained the same by choice. I'm sure i could go heavier on the exercises that dont hurt but im playing it as safe as possible.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Not doubting you but do you have any research studies that show AAS actually reduces tendon strength or is it not a matter of using AAS increases muscle mass/strength faster than the tendons/ligaments can become stronger?

Your going to have to hop on pubmed and find the studies yourself since I'm far away from home and don't have the papers with me but yes, there is evidence that some steroids reduce tendon strength in the long term.

Your muscles growing faster than your connective tissues is only part of the equation, though I should note that this will happen even if you don't increase the weight in the gym because steroids are THAT good - something to be aware of.
Your tendons, like your muscles, respond to androgens and tend to become more rigid or "stiff". This coincides with lower tissue flexibility that reduces the ability of your tendons to withstand punishment (specifically, the "tearing point" goes down and becomes more likely to occur ).

 

[ImAuNatural]

Your going to have to hop on pubmed and find the studies yourself since I'm far away from home and don't have the papers with me but yes, there is evidence that some steroids reduce tendon strength in the long term.

Your muscles growing faster than your connective tissues is only part of the equation, though I should note that this will happen even if you don't increase the weight in the gym because steroids are THAT good - something to be aware of.
Your tendons, like your muscles, respond to androgens and tend to become more rigid or "stiff". This coincides with lower tissue flexibility that reduces the ability of your tendons to withstand punishment (specifically, the "tearing point" goes down and becomes more likely to occur ).

Thanks for the info I will try to find the studies on this if i can, and if you get to a place where you could show them or remember then please do so i would love to read them. I knew corticosteroids would do this however.

We need a drug that heals tendons or strengthens them, there has to be something out there that can do this.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

I'll echo catbug's opinion that starting a cycle when you have a pre-existing injury that needs surgery is a pretty stupid idea.

Deca will only mask the pain, it will do absolutely nothing for a pre-existing injury & is ridiculously overrated for its "healing" properties.
Blasting is also a stupid idea since high dosed anabolics can actually weaken your tendons further long term & you already have a tendon injury to begin with so...do the math.

GH, TB-500 and possibly EQ are the only compounds worth looking at along with a TRT dose of test to maintain mass.

Never knew EQ potentially had healing abilities.. that's awesome.

What are your thoughts on GH increasing peptides for healing/prevention? One of the GHRPs + CJC or something..? Or possibly even this MK-677 + CJC protocol that Jimi has been talking about lately... any of those be worth the money for that specific purpose?

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Not a lot of positives to EQ (pretty weak steroid in general, takes a long time to get going, etc) but its healing potential (along with appetite increase) certainly helps it stand out.

I will say that I'm very much still a student when it comes to peptides and Jimi could easily come in here and make my response seem completely foolish
With that said, if you cannot afford GH then I don't see why GH releasing peptides wont offer at least some benefit to healing/prevention....

For prevention I would go with mod-GRF 1-29 along with a GHRP (6, 2 or Ipamorelin) at 50mcg each per day - I see no reason to dose it super high if general health/recovery is the main goal.
For healing the dosing gets a little more tricky because it depends on the nature & severity of the injury itself. I'd personally go for 100mcg each 2xday along with some TB-500 to get the maximum benefit.

Specifically for tendon repair, from the data I've seen BPC-157 is the one wit the most potential - very interesting peptide to say the least though without access to my papers not much else I can say about it atm.