First AAS Cycle. Critique this shat!

[ChaseTheYoke]

Stats:
Age: 23
Weight: 193lb
Height: 6'2"
Bf: Notta clue, probably 12-16%

Now before you start jumping in with the "Run test by itself for your first cycle!" I would like to say that I have ran sdrol before with no estrogen sides @ 20mg. Still a bad idea? Let me know.

Week 1-12: Test E
Week 1: Sdrol 10mg ed
Week 2-4: Sdrol 20mg ed
Week 1-15: stane (probably start off at 12.5mg eod, whatcha think?)

PCT 7 days after last pin: Clomid 50/50/50/50

Support supps: Fish oil, multi, tudca, taurine for back pumps from sd

QUESTIONS


Should I letro on hand incase of gyno sides or just up the dosage for the stane?

HCG? How recommended is this? I know SD shut me down pretty hard last time I ran it and it took about 5-6 weeks with DAA before my libido felt normal again and the atrophy seemed to go away.

Thought I had more but that's all I can think of atm. Thanks


Current progress shot:

View attachment 551802

 

[Metalhead]

Hold off on the pct about 2-3 weeks after last pin and add nolva with it at 40/40/20/20. You can have either letro or nolva on hand in case of a gyno flare up but be careful with letro as it will kill your estro. Stop the stane before you start post cycle therapy (pct). Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is a personal choice. Up to you

 

[Strong Man]

That's not to bad for a first cycle my friend. Start your pct 14 days after your last injection.

PCT
clomid 50/50/50/50
nolvadex 20/20/10/10 or nolvadex 40/40/20/20

I personally run nolv @ 20/20/10/10 and I recover just fine.

Think about adding some Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 500iu a week and keep them NUTS full. It will be much easier to come off and plus you will walk around with a hard on all day.

Run arimidex on cycle to keep the water down plus it helps with so many other things.

One last thing just eat eat eat! You will not grow if you dont eat and up your cals etc when you start to gain weight.

 

[ChaseTheYoke]

That's not to bad for a first cycle my friend. Start your pct 14 days after your last injection.

PCT
clomid 50/50/50/50
nolvadex 20/20/10/10 or nolvadex 40/40/20/20

I personally run nolv @ 20/20/10/10 and I recover just fine.

Think about adding some Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 500iu a week and keep them NUTS full. It will be much easier to come off and plus you will walk around with a hard on all day.

Run arimidex on cycle to keep the water down plus it helps with so many other things.

One last thing just eat eat eat! You will not grow if you dont eat and up your cals etc when you start to gain weight.

Thanks for the input!

I ran nolva 20/20/10/10 on my sd cycle and I did recover but I just think it was a week after pct before it happened.

stane won't keep estrogen related water retention down? as per your referral of arimidex

Why the nolva and clomid? They are both SERM's so I was just wondering. (if I remember correctly) Every other place has something different... seems some think just clomid is okay and others say to run both.


As far as diet I'm kinda a IIFYM guy... just shoot for over maintenance with high protein and good carbs. Peanut butter, fish mostly for fats.

 

[ChaseTheYoke]

Hold off on the pct about 2-3 weeks after last pin and add nolva with it at 40/40/20/20. You can have either letro or nolva on hand in case of a gyno flare up but be careful with letro as it will kill your estro. Stop the stane before you start post cycle therapy (pct). Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is a personal choice. Up to you

Yeah if I remember right the letro is like 90% estrogen death so it would definitely be a last resort. Thanks for the feedback bro.

 

[Strong Man]

Thanks for the input!

I ran nolva 20/20/10/10 on my sd cycle and I did recover but I just think it was a week after pct before it happened.

stane won't keep estrogen related water retention down? as per your referral of arimidex

Why the nolva and clomid? They are both SERM's so I was just wondering. (if I remember correctly) Every other place has something different... seems some think just clomid is okay and others say to run both.


As far as diet I'm kinda a IIFYM guy... just shoot for over maintenance with high protein and good carbs. Peanut butter, fish mostly for fats.

stane is a supplement from what I read and I have no experience with stane. arimidex is the way to go with AAS.
Here read this on pct and AI, I think it will help you a lot.

 

[Hangman750]

I'm old school so I would say week 13 at least start blocking estrogen. It seems to be a new school thing to start pct at 2-3 weeks but I know someone who tried that and got bitch tits like a motherfucker! In my mind if your body is getting a massive shot of test every week for 12 weeks and then nothing, your body is probably like WTF. I'm with the camp that says 3 weeks is pushing it and always start something when you quit pinning. I'm just speaking from what i've seen and not from what i've read. Some people may be fine at 2 or 3 weeks after pinning but that shit ain't true for a lot of people I know.

 

[DreDay187]

Not bad cycle to be honest. If you're already aware of the sides SD causes you then you'll be able to differentiate them from the test sides and/or test might amplify some sides.

1) run your test at 500-600mg/wk in 2 equally spaced injections (I do Tuesday and Saturday personally).

2) arimidex and stane (aromasin/exemestane) are both AI's. they do the same basic functions like lower estradiol, help with high BP, reduce water weight etc. they have different methods of doing this. Adex is cheaper usually, needs less mg's and less frequent dosing (longer half life), has reduced effectiveness when combined with Nolva, has estrogen rebound when coming off so could be tapered at the end, has slightly lower effectiveness but works quicker when adminstered. Dosage should start .25-.5mg/eod and adjusted from there depending on sides and blood work. Stane is suicidal inhibitor so no rebound, steroidal so should not be run during PCT so it won't affect recovery, needs higher and more frequent dosing (shorter half life), does NOT interfere with Nolva, and slightly better estrogen suppression. Dosing should start 12.5mg/ED and adjusted as necessary.

3) blood work should be done before, 6-8wks in and a few weeks after post cycle therapy (pct).

4) test e has around a 5-6 day terminal half life so start PCT 14-18days after last injection. Also add Nolva to PCT like Metalhead suggested.

5) Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) will def help with suppression and speedier recovery. 250iu 2x/wk from day one to 4days before starting post cycle therapy (pct). recommended to use it but your decision at the end of the day.

6) you can have letro or raloxifene on hand for gyno but be careful with letro. Not 90% effective but it is powerful stuff nonetheless.

7) support supps look good (tudca is great for the liver). May e add NAC for added liver and other benefits too.

8) run two serms for the synergistic effect and bc each one works in a slightly different way. Nolva acts primarily in tissue (esp breast tissue to help block estrogen from binding) while clomid will do a good job of preventing estrogen from binding to HPTA and restart natty test production via negative feedback loop. Run Nolva 40/40/20/20. 2 serms will be better than one for the most part unless you get bad sides from one but still run 2 until you know a lot you'll even get sides.

9) stane and arimidex will both help with water weight gain

10) IIFYM is great but don't use it as an excuse to get sloppy with diet. Your results will be subpar if you do. IIFYM is based on DCA and that's where it has its roots. Minimum 1g/lb BW of protein, .3-.4g/lb dietary fat and the rest of calories come from any macro or any combo but add carbs too keep intensity in the gym. Add whole eggs, olive oil, avocados etc for more fat selection

 

[ChaseTheYoke]

Not bad cycle to be honest. If you're already aware of the sides SD causes you then you'll be able to differentiate them from the test sides and/or test might amplify some sides.

1) run your test at 500-600mg/wk in 2 equally spaced injections (I do Tuesday and Saturday personally).

2) arimidex and stane (aromasin/exemestane) are both AI's. they do the same basic functions like lower estradiol, help with high BP, reduce water weight etc. they have different methods of doing this. Adex is cheaper usually, needs less mg's and less frequent dosing (longer half life), has reduced effectiveness when combined with Nolva, has estrogen rebound when coming off so could be tapered at the end, has slightly lower effectiveness but works quicker when adminstered. Dosage should start .25-.5mg/eod and adjusted from there depending on sides and blood work. Stane is suicidal inhibitor so no rebound, steroidal so should not be run during PCT so it won't affect recovery, needs higher and more frequent dosing (shorter half life), does NOT interfere with Nolva, and slightly better estrogen suppression. Dosing should start 12.5mg/ED and adjusted as necessary.

3) blood work should be done before, 6-8wks in and a few weeks after post cycle therapy (pct).

4) test e has around a 5-6 day terminal half life so start PCT 14-18days after last injection. Also add Nolva to PCT like Metalhead suggested.

5) Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) will def help with suppression and speedier recovery. 250iu 2x/wk from day one to 4days before starting post cycle therapy (pct). recommended to use it but your decision at the end of the day.

6) you can have letro or raloxifene on hand for gyno but be careful with letro. Not 90% effective but it is powerful stuff nonetheless.

7) support supps look good (tudca is great for the liver). May e add NAC for added liver and other benefits too.

8) run two serms for the synergistic effect and bc each one works in a slightly different way. Nolva acts primarily in tissue (esp breast tissue to help block estrogen from binding) while clomid will do a good job of preventing estrogen from binding to HPTA and restart natty test production via negative feedback loop. Run Nolva 40/40/20/20. 2 serms will be better than one for the most part unless you get bad sides from one but still run 2 until you know a lot you'll even get sides.

9) stane and arimidex will both help with water weight gain

10) IIFYM is great but don't use it as an excuse to get sloppy with diet. Your results will be subpar if you do. IIFYM is based on DCA and that's where it has its roots. Minimum 1g/lb BW of protein, .3-.4g/lb dietary fat and the rest of calories come from any macro or any combo but add carbs too keep intensity in the gym. Add whole eggs, olive oil, avocados etc for more fat selection

Wow thanks man very informative. And I keep my diet clean for the most part and I go for at least 200g protein a day and whole grain carbs with every meal. Don't mess with the drive throughs or cokes, etc.

And to be sure that I understood your second bullet it sounds like you would suggest stane over adex?

Really enjoyed your 8th bullet also, learned something from that one. Thanks!

 

[DreDay187]

Wow thanks man very informative. And I keep my diet clean for the most part and I go for at least 200g protein a day and whole grain carbs with every meal. Don't mess with the drive throughs or cokes, etc.

And to be sure that I understood your second bullet it sounds like you would suggest stane over adex?

Really enjoyed your 8th bullet also, learned something from that one. Thanks!

No problem man. You'll notice that if you do some research and it shows, ppl are much more willing to help you. Even if you stil have questions or completely took something the wrong way, it's the effort you out into it that counts most.

1) good for the diet. 200g pro is good and try for at least 85-90g fat. Make a thread in the diet forum with stats, TDEE, proposed diet with macro and caloric breakdown and we'll make sure that's g2g as well

2) I suggest trying both (separate cycles though) and seeing which one gives you less sides and easier to control E2 with. Some ppl prefer stane some adex. I'm using adex now but will probably try stane next cycle. It's how well the individual reacts to each compound and how effective they can be using it to control sides and estrogen.

3) look up on here and other places. You'll see ppl generally recommending 2 bc of the synergy. They ech do a slightly different thing and act through different pathways and receptors. Why settle for an attack on one front when you can do it on 2?

 

[imdennis]

up superdrol to 20mg every week, seems like a waste for 10mg for a week, you are aware superdrol is a pro hormone and it's alot more harmful to your liver then stuff like anavar, tbol,dbol, Winstrol (winny) etc... right?

 

[ChaseTheYoke]

up superdrol to 20mg every week, seems like a waste for 10mg for a week, you are aware superdrol is a pro hormone and it's alot more harmful to your liver then stuff like anavar, tbol,dbol, Winstrol (winny) etc... right?

Yeah thats where the tudca comes in. And it's just 10mg the first week and the following three weeks at 20mg.

Week 1-12: test E
Week 1: Sdrol 10mg ed
Week 2-4: Sdrol 20mg ed
Week 1-15: stane (probably start off at 12.5mg eod, whatcha think?)

I basically have 4 weeks of beastdrol (sdrol) left so that's why I'm running it. From what I've seen most people actually prefer it over dbol. Also, as stated, I will have taurine on hand because I know from experience SD back pumps can be fuggin' crippling.

EDIT: Just out of curiosity... I thought all orals were liver toxic at least to an extent.

 

[imdennis]

Yeah thats where the tudca comes in. And it's just 10mg the first week and the following three weeks at 20mg.

Week 1-12: test E
Week 1: Sdrol 10mg ed
Week 2-4: Sdrol 20mg ed
Week 1-15: stane (probably start off at 12.5mg eod, whatcha think?)

I basically have 4 weeks of beastdrol (sdrol) left so that's why I'm running it. From what I've seen most people actually prefer it over dbol. Also, as stated, I will have taurine on hand because I know from experience SD back pumps can be fuggin' crippling.

EDIT: Just out of curiosity... I thought all orals were liver toxic at least to an extent.

some people get it others don't, i've had worse pumps from medistars dbol then i do from amls superdrol, and im running 20/20/20/30mg, results are great, no insane back pumps or anything, if you have enough to do 20mg for 4 weeks i highly recommend doing 20 rather then 10 , take it first thing in the morning and then an hour before you go to the gym

 

[ChaseTheYoke]

And just for gits and shiggles... this is where I came from about 3 years ago.

View attachment 551819

YOKED!

 

[DreDay187]

Yeah thats where the tudca comes in. And it's just 10mg the first week and the following three weeks at 20mg.

Week 1-12: test E
Week 1: Sdrol 10mg ed
Week 2-4: Sdrol 20mg ed
Week 1-15: stane (probably start off at 12.5mg eod, whatcha think?)

I basically have 4 weeks of beastdrol (sdrol) left so that's why I'm running it. From what I've seen most people actually prefer it over dbol. Also, as stated, I will have taurine on hand because I know from experience SD back pumps can be fuggin' crippling.

[BEDIT: Just out of curiosity... I thought all orals were liver toxic at least to an extent.[/B]

It's due to the alkylation process at the 17th alpha position. They they replace a hydrogen ago with a carbon atom usually by a methyl group (CH3) or ethyl group (C2H5). This makes it resistant to first pass metabolism in the liver and cannot be broken down bc the alkyl group can't be removed. This translates into liver toxicity. Now as long as you take reasonable doses and reasonable cycle lengths and stay away from things like alcohol, toxicity won't be too much of an issue. Things like NAC, Liv52, and tudca also help ease the liver. Some are more toxic than others but again it's really dose dependent.

 

[ChaseTheYoke]

some people get it others don't, i've had worse pumps from medistars dbol then i do from amls superdrol, and im running 20/20/20/30mg, results are great, no insane back pumps or anything, if you have enough to do 20mg for 4 weeks i highly recommend doing 20 rather then 10 , take it first thing in the morning and then an hour before you go to the gym

Yeah man I've only ran hdrol and sdrol but both didn't really "kick in" til the second week mark and I don't have enough to do 20mg for 4 weeks. But I honestly don't see it making a difference in the gains but more so in the liver toxicity. I gained 20lbs on sdrol (believe it or not) mostly muscle memory because I was out of the gym and lost like 15 working through the hot of the summer in the south.

 

[Hog928]

This is always a good thread to see and don't happen enough almost good enough for a sticky lol. Someone actually did research and has a good idea of what he's doing and needs a little guidance but who doesn't when getting into something. For ever one that signs on here to get everything handed to them and gets torn apart this is why. Enjoy you cycle bro you should kill it and grow like crazy.

 

[ChaseTheYoke]

This is always a good thread to see and don't happen enough almost good enough for a sticky lol. Someone actually did research and has a good idea of what he's doing and needs a little guidance but who doesn't when getting into something. For ever one that signs on here to get everything handed to them and gets torn apart this is why. Enjoy you cycle bro you should kill it and grow like crazy.

The stickies here have all the credit for my knowledge actually. It kills me what people will do to their bodies with little knowledge of what the potential repercussions could be. Or every 10th post where it's a new member who picked up a dumbell for the first time last month and decided he needed some test/deca.

Really have enjoyed my experience on this forum so far. Thanks to everyone.

 

[ChaseTheYoke]

Sorry to keep bumping this thread but this is cycle is all I think about night and day as I wait to start And I keep having questions pop up.

So I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere before but I was wondering that say hypothetically; I gain 10lbs of muscle mass from the proposed cycle above. What is the average percentage that is "kept" (a month after post cycle therapy (pct) perhaps) for the average cycle. Of course assuming that your caloric needs are met as well as macros and proper training is maintained.

 

[DreDay187]

Seeing as you probably haven't gone past your genetic threshold, if you have proper nutrition and training, you should keep most if not all. Remember though that a lot of the gains are water weight so that will go as the test clears but water isnt actual muscle mass.