Fu*ked up situation, and sustanon (self medication) question..

Hi!,

At first I apology if these questions has already answered, im on hurry because I have to reply to my doctor as fast as possible and have no time to do tons of reading. And even if I did, I`d be too insecure to solve this on my own. I´m not a bodybuilder, and couldn´t find better place to ask. I bet Youre pro on this topic testosterone anyways.

So Im on methadone maintenance program, have been 8 yrs now. I´ve been tapering and very low dose now. As some of You might know, opiates lower test levels significantly, may even shut down natural production. I suffered low or even none test levels, and problem was local health cares poor knowledge or ignorance. I asked many times to do labs for test levels, but they didnt agree. Only realistic thing I could do in that situaion, was to get and inject sustanon 250 on my own because I couldn´t handle methadone withdrawals and low/none test level. It worked very well, and judging of how I feel now, I had no test naturally. Symptoms were horrible, and I went as far as being self-destructive. Now I feel great, and like before MMT.

First week I took 2x250mgs, 2 ampoules. After that two weeks 250mg every 7days and since those, 250mg every 10 days. First shot I took about 8 weeks ago, and last shot I took 4 days ago. I have never before done any steroids and Im 38yrs old 176cm and 90kg.

And now, when its too late for that, senior physician agreed to do those labs I asked allmost year ago. He agreed to take FSH, LH, testosterone.

Am I screwed up now? They won´t like the fact of self-medication. But I had no choise.

Do those labs give me up of using test on my own?

How long should I wait to give sample?

Thanks, sorry if my english confuses You.
 
yup..and you picked sustanon.. that has a very long ester.. im thinking 6 weeks as well
 
Thanks for answer. Yes, I picked sustanon. I firmly believed I was on my own with this, but when I asked this senior physician why they ignore problems with testosterone in MMT. And we talked about TRT, surprizingly he was nice to me and put me on blood work. Offcourse I wish now, that I didnt mention it.

6 weeks and PCT is counted in that? Ok, but if I take advantage of this crappy situation, go to lab before PCT? To get TRT officially. Other way, about when would results show poor/none test levels?
[EDIT] Ok, learned that dacanoate ester releases test about month.. but seems to drop significantly after two weeks. Still confused with how uch it affect on test levels..

Im not forced to take those BW:ks, but its expected. Is TRT allways life long decision? On MMT my plan is to taper in zero before january 2017.
If Im on TRT until Im off of methadone, about one and half years, will my natural production recover after it?

What about those labs? FSH, LH, testosterone, will use of sustanon affect results in way, that use is suspected?


(And Yes, I know I messed up. Maybe Im use to do hard choices in my life. My main "career" as an opiate addict was in 90´s. I got sober, had life and made children with very wrong woman who started to alienate my children off me. I relapsed, and thought I had to get myself in control by hook or by crook. Answer was MMT because my children)
 
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And about PCT, offcourse it should be done to be safe. But I know my natural test levels are very low. Judging of muscle mass and facial hair growth. Im almost 40yrs, and cannot grow full beard, never could. Only goatee and mustaches. So need of TRT could have been even on natural levels. And methadone decreases test levels about 75%! accordind to studies. Might be that theres no use for PCT as long as Im on methadone. Yes, it´s very fucked up. :freak:
 
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You would have to wait 21 days to start pct after last pin. Pct lasts 4 weeks. Then 6-8 weeks to do bloodwork. Your looking at about 4 months. You could just stop test injections and go do bloodwork in 6 weeks without pct. You'll feel like hell but I don't think pct will recover you if you had very low test to begin with. Tuff call...
 
Yes, tought call.. And very sad, that I cant trust health care in this situation. I´d rather go for it and admit I fucked up, after all, I was left alone with situation with no help. But then again, it could seriously make things much more difficult. :/

Ok, then it depends on the fact, that can one be on TRT one and half year and recover? Hard to find anything on that, because cycles seems to last only 2-3 months. I could stand those low natural test levels which I had before MMT, Im not a very masculine man anyways and not bodybuilder. Quite androgyn after all, but still.. I was much happier then than on MMT and before T injections. And the fact is, regardless methadones testosterone suppressing effect is dose dependent, that I couldnt go thru withdrawals with low or none test. No chance without relapsing to opiates again. Its two times hell to go thru, when been already 8 yrs in hell.. thinking backwards. But who knows, maybe methadone can shut down test production forever.. I dont know.
 
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I agree with tbone. Your best bet will probably just be to wait 6 six weeks without injections and run the bloods. You could blame being shutdown on methadone. Good news is you will be eligible for TRT for sure. But you might need to find a way to stretch out your blood draw for six weeks.. Definitely do not go any earlier, you don't want him seeing suppressed LH + FSH with TT still in range.

To answer your other question, no. You can't come off TRT. It is a life decision. If you need it (and it sounds like you do) it's not really much of a decision though. You will also recover to slightly lower levels than before you cycled... regardless if you did a 2 week cycle or 2 years. The longer you are on the harder it is, but you pretty much always do some damage. You will never come off and recover to better levels anyway.

Also, just to clarify you are right in thinking opiates cause lasting damage. I doubt very much you will recover to any normal levels at this stage after being on opiates for years.
 
Do yourself a favor OP; come off the test, PCT, and get the tests done in the proper time frame. I became an opiate addict after several back-to-back surgeries, and subsequently fried my leydig cells in my testes. I was denied blood tests for a long time myself, and wish I had known about private blood testing long ago.

AAS shuts off your pituitary gland, (so does methadone to an extent) so if they pull labs too soon and see you're COMPLETELY shut down with a testosterone level that doesn't correspond as such - you're busted. If you try to fool them by just going cold turkey, and come in with nearly zero test and still zero LH /FSH, you will likely still be busted. PCT with time off after to recover may not only actually bring you back to good health, but if you're in my shoes - will help them make a proper diagnosis.

Stay strong man, I know all too well how hard that shit is to give up. Just remember two things: 1. You will ALWAYS be an addict as your brain is forever changed, and a small "cheat" will almost always end up in a full relapse. 2. You are not alone, and can beat this. You have to take it one day at a time, and focus on things that are important.

I spent a decade in the aftermath of my addiction with a broken body that I am still trying to completely repair after 5+ years of being on TRT. I certainly don't wish what I went through (they didn't even recognize that opiates caused HPTA damage when I kept asking docs WTF was wrong) on anyone, so take whatever steps you must to come out on top.

I certainly wish you the best; as someone that has been there, I know what challenges you face in the days to come.

My .02c :)
 
Your red blood count will stay high until those cells die off - 4 months

Wat?? How much? Would it give me up? There actually is a small basic bloodwork with hemoglobin counts.. :Pat: But already read, that it isn´t problem necessary. I smoke, so I can say I´ve been smoking cigarette and pot too. I could exaggerate it and hope they wont do it soon later, it can get higher sometimes..

Thanks for answers this far, especially halfwit. :)
 
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You can just keep rescheduling your appointment with the doctor, saying something came up (mandatory overtime at work, funeral of a best friends's mom, etc) and keep pushing it out a month or two each time. As long as you give the receptionist enough notice to fill in your spot, she will not give two hoots WHY you are rescheduling...so don't give a reason unless they ask.
 
I´ll stick on that 6week plan, I´ll just say take risk of high hemoglobin. It can be explained away with other possible causes..

Im on half way now. Last friday was 3 weeks of last pin. Have to ask this forehand.. I have tamoxifen which I bought for possible gyno symptoms. If I get those, can I use them on need? If Yes, then will it show up in bloodworks?
 
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Hmm.. So, I started PCT yesterday with tamoxifen only. 20mg every other day. Yes I know it´s controversial, let´s not argue with that.

But why do I have to wait 6weeks after PCT has ended? To recover fully? Something else?


(Every other day at first week, then every third day. Tamoxifen makes me little dizzy, and it has major interaction with methadone. Because possibility of prolonged QT-interval or sudden death. I keep dose as low as I can. Methadone dose is low already, only 40mg daily, was 150mg before tapering. I´ll try to switch them to clomiphene..)
 
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Hmm.. So, I started PCT yesterday with tamoxifen only. 20mg every other day. Yes I know it´s controversial, let´s not argue with that.

But why do I have to wait 6weeks after PCT has ended? To recover fully? Something else?


(Every other day at first week, then every third day. Tamoxifen makes me little dizzy, and it has major interaction with methadone. Because possibility of prolonged QT-interval or sudden death. I keep dose as low as I can. Methadone dose is low already, only 40mg daily, was 150mg before tapering. I´ll try to switch them to clomiphene..)

Very simple: PCT drugs (SERMs) raise your LH and FSH artificially. If you were to go in while they're still active, you will not only have those pituitary hormones in far greater abundance than what you're capable of naturally, but your testosterone and estradiol will likely be off as well. Six weeks is a significant amount of time in order to let them clear out, and your body to return to its natural state.
 
Thanks Halfwit, You´ve been very supportive. Particularly because peer support, and not being judgmental. :) And everyone else, thank You too. I couldn´t have done this without help I got. :) I hope this thread will help someone else someday too. :)

I´ll let You know how this mess ended when I´ve done bloodworks.
 
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Yes hi I was reading this and was wondering I'm about to schedule my appointment for blood work so I can get on trt but before I do what strength test do you get on trt from the doctor is it any thing good? Or should I just try and find a new connection. I know I definitely need something cause I was on sust 300 for about a year or so off and on. And now my guy up and stopped getting anything so left me high and dry now. So really needing help as what my next move should be. I'm losing drastically energy amounts and such. If anyone could help with my question that'd be great
 
Yes hi I was reading this and was wondering I'm about to schedule my appointment for blood work so I can get on trt but before I do what strength test do you get on trt from the doctor is it any thing good? Or should I just try and find a new connection. I know I definitely need something cause I was on sust 300 for about a year or so off and on. And now my guy up and stopped getting anything so left me high and dry now. So really needing help as what my next move should be. I'm losing drastically energy amounts and such. If anyone could help with my question that'd be great

You should probably start a new thread... there isn't a quick answer to your question.
 
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