Guinea Pigging: Tamoxifen by itself

[HankTheDavis]

I have decided to see what tamoxifen, nolva, 20 mg ED for 30 days by itself will do, if anything. The studies say that test levels will increase like with clomid, but anecdotal documentation on this is nil, and I figured it would benefit everyone to document this.

I would just like to note:

I am not expecting any gains from this.

I've done my reading, and determined that the long term dangers are nil.

This study is being conducted out of boredom while I search for a trustworthy AAS source, and the belief that the effect of every chem by itself should be known before making a cocktail of things.




So far, 5 days in. Diet is high protein and slightly gaining (+500 cals). Training is 20 min cardio (60 on heavy days 2x a week) and lifting 5 days a week.


So far:

No significant bodily changes.

Experiencing hot flashes.

Some sleep disturbances, but as someone with a history of insomnia, this is totally bearable.

Rapid, yet moderate intensity mood swings. Feeling... OK.

Will keep you guys posted throughout.

 

[HankTheDavis]

p.s. I'd love to have bloodwork alongside, but I'm not throwing money on a shits n giggles study.

 

[Get Some]

It's not a shit's n giggles study bro.... in fact, if you are going to run an "oral only" cycle I fully advocate that it be nolvadex or clomid. Both can raise your natural testosterone levels significantly. To say you aren't expecting any gains is terrible... always expect gains brotha!

I really wish you would have had labs done before and after so you could see the results for yourself. Those "side effects" you are starting to experience are the result of your test levels going up

Oh and btw, there IS documentation.... just google about HPTA restart or recovery and your bound to find some studies done on males with tamoxifen only

 

[HankTheDavis]

Awesome, liking that this is positive. Yes I'm going by the studies about increasing test by about 100% or so by nolva alone. I should asterisk the gains part: not expecting anything beyond natty gains.

Most the HPTA restart documentation covers clomid (rec'd by most endos). I haven't seen much on nolva that finish out and cover what actually happens after dosing. There has been some dispute about nolva vs. clomid only and tamoxifen's killing of IGF. Having some tamox on hand by chance, I wanted to settle that score.

If nolva has no effect, I'm expecting ~5 lbs over 4 weeks. If it hurts, I'm expecting <2 lbs gain. If it helps, I'll have a party.

 

[HankTheDavis]

update:

on the topic of the "nolva kills sex drive" rumor: psychological sex drive severely diminished. still can get it up and actually get more morningwoods than normal.

 

[93stangers]

There's actually an article / study in one of the sticky's for beginners (titled massive newbie info) where it talks about Nolva vs Clomid. It goes into saying they recommend Nolva during and post cycle therapy (pct) and site a study how it actually raises test levels on a nolva only cycle of 20mg a day.

 

[anewguy]

I had a friend that did this at one point. He said that he saw good gains. But I am sure he never had labs done either.

 

[Get Some]

You guys should ALWAYS get labs done. There are sites online that you can get the tests from for way cheaper than going to the doctor. It is important to know where you are at before you start the cycle, midway through (for longer ones) and then a few weeks after. While I agree that comid only would be the better choice because it acts directly on the pituitary, Nolva works fine as well.

Your sex drive has not diminished because your test levels are likely rising. The people who say Nolva kills your sex drive are idiots who assume this is the case when they use it on post cycle therapy (pct). HELLOOOO! You are coming off of an AAS cycle in which your test levels are crashing and you're doing a restart. You think it's the Nolva that's making you lose your sex drive? Nope. And the other accounts I've seen are from guys who are running tren cycles that claim nolva is causing their misfortunes in the bedroom. Nope again. The issues you will encounter with the progesterone receptors in your body are a direct result of what the tren is doing. If you don't control estrogen on cycle then you can't control progesterone. And guess what, Nolva is simply a blocker... you need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) that will seek out the aromatase and kill it. So, the issue of nolva killing sex drive on cycle is not an issue.. BECAUSE YOU SHOULDN'T BE RUNNING NOLVA ON CYCLE.... pick the proper dosage of either aromasin or arimidex and see how much your cycle changes for the better.

Hank... you SHOULD be expecting gains past what you think you could achieve natty. And you can't really put a number on it, but I'm betting "you'll know" when the time comes. If you're up to it, a few months down the road try clomid for the same period of time at 50mg ED and see if you notice anything different. It woudl be appreciated if you could relay your experience at that time as well. There are so few educated first hand accounts of these types of cycles, which is why I believe none of the newbs even think about running them. So please if you get the chance log your experience if you decide to go that route in the future as well. We can't expect to grow as a community if we don't strive to help each other in more ways than one.

 

[jw2031]

I never go off Novadex 40mg per day

 

[HankTheDavis]

You guys should ALWAYS get labs done. There are sites online that you can get the tests from for way cheaper than going to the doctor. It is important to know where you are at before you start the cycle, midway through (for longer ones) and then a few weeks after. While I agree that comid only would be the better choice because it acts directly on the pituitary, Nolva works fine as well.

Your sex drive has not diminished because your test levels are likely rising. The people who say Nolva kills your sex drive are idiots who assume this is the case when they use it on post cycle therapy (pct). HELLOOOO! You are coming off of an AAS cycle in which your test levels are crashing and you're doing a restart. You think it's the Nolva that's making you lose your sex drive? Nope. And the other accounts I've seen are from guys who are running tren cycles that claim nolva is causing their misfortunes in the bedroom. Nope again. The issues you will encounter with the progesterone receptors in your body are a direct result of what the tren is doing. If you don't control estrogen on cycle then you can't control progesterone. And guess what, Nolva is simply a blocker... you need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) that will seek out the aromatase and kill it. So, the issue of nolva killing sex drive on cycle is not an issue.. BECAUSE YOU SHOULDN'T BE RUNNING NOLVA ON CYCLE.... pick the proper dosage of either aromasin or arimidex and see how much your cycle changes for the better.

Hank... you SHOULD be expecting gains past what you think you could achieve natty. And you can't really put a number on it, but I'm betting "you'll know" when the time comes. If you're up to it, a few months down the road try clomid for the same period of time at 50mg ED and see if you notice anything different. It woudl be appreciated if you could relay your experience at that time as well. There are so few educated first hand accounts of these types of cycles, which is why I believe none of the newbs even think about running them. So please if you get the chance log your experience if you decide to go that route in the future as well. We can't expect to grow as a community if we don't strive to help each other in more ways than one.

I can't find anything cheaper than a $100 labcorp test.

I am *definitely* going to try a Clomid run about nov -dec or so with the same documentation.

I will keep you guys posted.

 

[Get Some]

Here's a trick

https://www.labsmd.com/tests.php?view=search_results

Follow that link at select the "Testosterone,total, serum"... the test is under female but it will still tell you the exact same results and it's only like $43. The same test at your doctor's office is likely to run $300 minimum.

I can't find anything cheaper than a $100 labcorp test.

I am *definitely* going to try a Clomid run about nov -dec or so with the same documentation.

I will keep you guys posted.

 

[HankTheDavis]

Much appreciated.

 

[HankTheDavis]

Just a quick update to keep the log going. Gaining weight surely, but slowly. Both fat and muscle. Up 1-2lbs from 5 days ago when I started. Pretty normal for how I gain from this starting point.

God. Damn. These mood swings. They hit fast and go fast, and you can never tell if this is placebo. Takes a strong mind not to let them show.

Uh, no sense of well being out of the normal. Hitting the gym tomorrow after a rest day. We'll see how the recovery went.

 

[HankTheDavis]

Update:

Some effects are great. Fat/muscle ratio much better than when not on tamox. This has only been a week or so mind you.

I'm beginning to believe the anecdotal reports of tamox killing your sex drive. It's not like the equipment won't work, but I really just don't care. This can only be verified once I come off the stuff though.