Have tons of test enanth and want to make suspension.Possible ?
- Thread starter Gtrack
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DirkMoneyshot
Well-known member
NO you can't
I have found from personal experience that (at least for me) longer acting esters and even orals taken throughout the day only serve to increase side effects and not gains.
I prefer injectables with fast acting esters and even my orals i take once per day (if i use more than one i use each at different times per day).This way i can get as much anabolic action without gyno,water retention and less nut shrinkage.
Think about it...test suspension gives more strength,less bloat and less gyno to 99% of the users.Why ? It's the same substance as sustanon and although there are many sustanon users using 2 grams per week,nobody uses 2 grams of suspension per week and still those that have used both still say suspension gives them more strength and less water retention -which means more gains and less sides.
As for getting test powder i'll have to look around...getting a white powder in the mail seems quite dangerous.
Plus i can get test enanthate dirt cheap where i'm at ,probably much cheaper than powder.
What kind of equipment would i need to de-esterify enanthate ?
I prefer injectables with fast acting esters and even my orals i take once per day (if i use more than one i use each at different times per day).This way i can get as much anabolic action without gyno,water retention and less nut shrinkage.
Think about it...test suspension gives more strength,less bloat and less gyno to 99% of the users.Why ? It's the same substance as sustanon and although there are many sustanon users using 2 grams per week,nobody uses 2 grams of suspension per week and still those that have used both still say suspension gives them more strength and less water retention -which means more gains and less sides.
As for getting test powder i'll have to look around...getting a white powder in the mail seems quite dangerous.
Plus i can get test enanthate dirt cheap where i'm at ,probably much cheaper than powder.
What kind of equipment would i need to de-esterify enanthate ?
powder is very cheap.
i have done boat loads of suspension and long ester test. i get the same results off of both. test is test. of course if you doing 500mg/w of suspension and 2g/w of enan you gonna get more sider off the enan. as far increasing doses with long ester gear and the sides increasing while gains dont is total BS. if this is the case for you then your nutrition or training is suspect.
as far as 99% of users experiencing less sides from base than long ester gear i dont know where you did the survey at but it didnt include me and the dozens of top level plers i know. if you do 1g/w of both for 12 weeks you gonna have more test in your system at the end with the long ester gear.
sides can be controlled with long ester gear or short ester gear. esters do not cause sides, the parent hormone does. esters affect duration and soluablility.
i never heard of anyone using 2g/w of base. thats obsurd and would lead to one sore ass.
i have done boat loads of suspension and long ester test. i get the same results off of both. test is test. of course if you doing 500mg/w of suspension and 2g/w of enan you gonna get more sider off the enan. as far increasing doses with long ester gear and the sides increasing while gains dont is total BS. if this is the case for you then your nutrition or training is suspect.
as far as 99% of users experiencing less sides from base than long ester gear i dont know where you did the survey at but it didnt include me and the dozens of top level plers i know. if you do 1g/w of both for 12 weeks you gonna have more test in your system at the end with the long ester gear.
sides can be controlled with long ester gear or short ester gear. esters do not cause sides, the parent hormone does. esters affect duration and soluablility.
i never heard of anyone using 2g/w of base. thats obsurd and would lead to one sore ass.
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It would lead to one sore ass that's for sure !
As for our little "debate" i think most will agree a longer ester like enanthate will cause more water retention than suspension.
All things aside i talked about my own experience with results and sides and of course i compared the same doses in both cases and not sides with 2g/sust/wk to sides with 500mg/susp/wk.
My rationale is this : the need for anabolic/anticatabolic properties are not throughout a day,(plus our own body works in waves of different blood levels of hormones).
So why should the levels be equal throughout the day regardless of whether the athlete needs them or not ?
After waking up,after training are the most demanding times of the day.With steady levels one cannot play around and prevent catabolism and induce anabolism when it counts the most.
Just my oopinion from my own experience.Could be that i'm quite different as i see great results with really low dosages most would find ridiculous for my size and strength.
As for our little "debate" i think most will agree a longer ester like enanthate will cause more water retention than suspension.
All things aside i talked about my own experience with results and sides and of course i compared the same doses in both cases and not sides with 2g/sust/wk to sides with 500mg/susp/wk.
My rationale is this : the need for anabolic/anticatabolic properties are not throughout a day,(plus our own body works in waves of different blood levels of hormones).
So why should the levels be equal throughout the day regardless of whether the athlete needs them or not ?
After waking up,after training are the most demanding times of the day.With steady levels one cannot play around and prevent catabolism and induce anabolism when it counts the most.
Just my oopinion from my own experience.Could be that i'm quite different as i see great results with really low dosages most would find ridiculous for my size and strength.
OK point made. i just shared my experience.
i like long ester and you like short ester. =0)
but as far as most agreeing that long ester causes more sides, i think that is pushig it.
if there is a difference it is due to the fact that more parent hormone is present in the system after several weeks of adminisrtration. so its not the ester but the parnet hormone that causes this.
on a side note everyone can get great results clean with proprer nutrition and a solid workout program. as far as juicing goes some respond well to low doses while others need more to get the same effect. but i have also found over the years that the longer you stay in the game the more it takes to achieve similar results.
nice posts.
i like long ester and you like short ester. =0)
but as far as most agreeing that long ester causes more sides, i think that is pushig it.
if there is a difference it is due to the fact that more parent hormone is present in the system after several weeks of adminisrtration. so its not the ester but the parnet hormone that causes this.
on a side note everyone can get great results clean with proprer nutrition and a solid workout program. as far as juicing goes some respond well to low doses while others need more to get the same effect. but i have also found over the years that the longer you stay in the game the more it takes to achieve similar results.
nice posts.
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I have to agree with PB. Test is test is test. If you experience any difference in shooting different esters, it is only because you have different levels of the destrified hormone in your system.
Remember, test enan can't work until it is destrified. Suspension just doesn't have an ester. The hormone that actually does something in both cases is exactly the same. Exactly the same.
Remember, test enan can't work until it is destrified. Suspension just doesn't have an ester. The hormone that actually does something in both cases is exactly the same. Exactly the same.
The hormone may be the same but the effect isn't always the same .It also depends on other factors other than the hormone itself.
This doesn't need much proof.Others for their own reasons prefer longer esters and others shorter esters.
If you ask a HRT Md for example ,he'll never recommend suspension or even any kind of pills just because his goal might be steady blood levels of test.
People see different results (and/or side effects) with GH based on the time of use.This is also true for insulin or should i say even more evident.
Test is indeed test but its effects are not the same always.There's a difference depending on the way you take it.
Many bodybuilders switch to water based stuff precontest to lessen water retention and non tested powerlifters prefer suspension or methyltest to longer acting testosterones because they find it has a more apparent strength/psychoactive effect.
Each has his own preferences and this is acceptable.
This doesn't need much proof.Others for their own reasons prefer longer esters and others shorter esters.
If you ask a HRT Md for example ,he'll never recommend suspension or even any kind of pills just because his goal might be steady blood levels of test.
People see different results (and/or side effects) with GH based on the time of use.This is also true for insulin or should i say even more evident.
Test is indeed test but its effects are not the same always.There's a difference depending on the way you take it.
Many bodybuilders switch to water based stuff precontest to lessen water retention and non tested powerlifters prefer suspension or methyltest to longer acting testosterones because they find it has a more apparent strength/psychoactive effect.
Each has his own preferences and this is acceptable.
not the powerlifters i know. i been in the pling game for several years and the suspension thing is old school. plers now do tren to make weight while continuing long ester test. the big advatage to long ester test is that higher mg/ml concentrations are possible pain free. there fore more test can be taken with a lot less pokes in the ol ass bone. more test = more strength.
as far as bbers swithching over precontest that makes no sense cause the long ester gear is gonna be there a while. the reason less water is retained is because there is less test in the sytem. so to get the same affect all one has to do is lower doses. =0)
once again its not the ester causing the bloat its the test. you can do all the esters you want and you will never hold water. esters are comprised of alchols and acids being combined together. they are used for a wide variety of things including perfumes and flavor enhancers. often times esters have a fruity smell.
obviously doing slin at odd times is gonna case you to store fat. thats why most take it post workout to spike slin levels to replenish depleted muscle cells. i have also done a lot of gh and never noticed any differnce in sides depending on time of day. sub q is obviously a slower release than im.
but i see what the point is you trying to make. i just dont agree with it. =0)
it would be a boring world if everyone agreed on everything. you found what works for you so keep at it. Ill do the same.
but most folks are not gonna agree with the statement that long esters cause more bloat. more test causes more bloat. and even then it is contrallable, just as bp, acne and other sides are.
i will add that by having the yoyo effect you speak of going on with test is gonna drive you body nuts. our bodies are continually in a state of change. so to say that our bodies only need test at 2 times per day is just not true. cells are constantly being broken down and new ones formed.
this has been enjoyable. =0)
perhaps ida and a few others will chime in. i know ida likes short ester gear.
as far as bbers swithching over precontest that makes no sense cause the long ester gear is gonna be there a while. the reason less water is retained is because there is less test in the sytem. so to get the same affect all one has to do is lower doses. =0)
once again its not the ester causing the bloat its the test. you can do all the esters you want and you will never hold water. esters are comprised of alchols and acids being combined together. they are used for a wide variety of things including perfumes and flavor enhancers. often times esters have a fruity smell.
obviously doing slin at odd times is gonna case you to store fat. thats why most take it post workout to spike slin levels to replenish depleted muscle cells. i have also done a lot of gh and never noticed any differnce in sides depending on time of day. sub q is obviously a slower release than im.
but i see what the point is you trying to make. i just dont agree with it. =0)
it would be a boring world if everyone agreed on everything. you found what works for you so keep at it. Ill do the same.
but most folks are not gonna agree with the statement that long esters cause more bloat. more test causes more bloat. and even then it is contrallable, just as bp, acne and other sides are.
i will add that by having the yoyo effect you speak of going on with test is gonna drive you body nuts. our bodies are continually in a state of change. so to say that our bodies only need test at 2 times per day is just not true. cells are constantly being broken down and new ones formed.
this has been enjoyable. =0)
perhaps ida and a few others will chime in. i know ida likes short ester gear.
BigRonWannabee
New member
You cant compare the timing of GH and slin to gear. Its not even apples to oranges...thats apples to cadillacs.Gtrack said:
OK.
This is a great discussion IMO although off topic cause we are in the chemical forum and we are way off my orininal question.
I'd like to take this out of the agree/disagree context.We agreed we disagree.So let's discuss a bit.
Pullinbig you say this test yoyo is gonna drive one's body nuts.Aren't stable,continious levels of test even worse ?
The body's hormones work in waves and apart from this there are times one needs the anabolism and aggression and other times not.
Wouldn't this lead to sides like insomnia,too much energy etc ,too much libido (is this bad ? LOL) ?
If i'm not mistaken the ideal would be not to find a way of perfectly even hormone levels but something like the insulin pump many diabetics have ,a way to regulate hormone levels according to need or am i wrong ?
Somewhere i saw NPP being mentioned as a great drug in contrast to Deca which basically shuts everybody down big time.And some people mention this while taking the same amounts for the same or more time as Deca which leads to the same total amount of hormone in the body.
If longer acting esters would lead to the same gains and sides they would be used exclusively by all except the tested athletes.All other orals and injectables would be excinct and their substances would have been in a decanoate ester and everybody would be happy with a once-a-week injection (ok,a big one)instead of every once in a while pill popping and ed/eod injects.
As for tren you mentioned,how do you like the newer,faster acting acetate ester ?
This is a great discussion IMO although off topic cause we are in the chemical forum and we are way off my orininal question.
I'd like to take this out of the agree/disagree context.We agreed we disagree.So let's discuss a bit.
Pullinbig you say this test yoyo is gonna drive one's body nuts.Aren't stable,continious levels of test even worse ?
The body's hormones work in waves and apart from this there are times one needs the anabolism and aggression and other times not.
Wouldn't this lead to sides like insomnia,too much energy etc ,too much libido (is this bad ? LOL) ?
If i'm not mistaken the ideal would be not to find a way of perfectly even hormone levels but something like the insulin pump many diabetics have ,a way to regulate hormone levels according to need or am i wrong ?
Somewhere i saw NPP being mentioned as a great drug in contrast to Deca which basically shuts everybody down big time.And some people mention this while taking the same amounts for the same or more time as Deca which leads to the same total amount of hormone in the body.
If longer acting esters would lead to the same gains and sides they would be used exclusively by all except the tested athletes.All other orals and injectables would be excinct and their substances would have been in a decanoate ester and everybody would be happy with a once-a-week injection (ok,a big one)instead of every once in a while pill popping and ed/eod injects.
As for tren you mentioned,how do you like the newer,faster acting acetate ester ?
ou cant compare the timing of GH and slin to gear. Its not even apples to oranges...thats apples to cadillacs.
Of course it's not the same but i wanted to underline the fact that just like insulin used in different times can make you fat or really help anabolism,
in a likewise manner every steroid at other times is needed in big amounts and at other times in much lesser amounts.
And steady levels might not help as much when needed and might prove unwanted at certain parts of the day.
Of course it's not the same but i wanted to underline the fact that just like insulin used in different times can make you fat or really help anabolism,
in a likewise manner every steroid at other times is needed in big amounts and at other times in much lesser amounts.
And steady levels might not help as much when needed and might prove unwanted at certain parts of the day.
BigRonWannabee
New member
I see your point. Comparing suspension favorably to our own natural wave of hormones during the day is a valid argument. I know a guy who shoot test suspension eod and did extremely well in 10 weeks.
However, I am a firm believer that a large flux in hormone levels (reletively large compared to natural highs and lows) will bring about sides in itself. Maintaining a steady blood level of hormones is, imo, the best way to go. The various hormones we use work along MANY pathways, many of which we dont usually discuss or are even aware of. How can you say that elevated protein synthesis, increased igf-1 production and the other countless benefits be "unwanted at certain parts of the day." I dont know about you, but id like to create the most anabolic environment possible.
Your argument hinges on 2 things.
1) natural hormone production isnt steady
2) compared to steady hormone levels, it MUST be more beneficial to have changing, pulse-like fluxes of hormones.
I understand why you support 2, but prove 2 and you'll win my vote.
However, I am a firm believer that a large flux in hormone levels (reletively large compared to natural highs and lows) will bring about sides in itself. Maintaining a steady blood level of hormones is, imo, the best way to go. The various hormones we use work along MANY pathways, many of which we dont usually discuss or are even aware of. How can you say that elevated protein synthesis, increased igf-1 production and the other countless benefits be "unwanted at certain parts of the day." I dont know about you, but id like to create the most anabolic environment possible.
Your argument hinges on 2 things.
1) natural hormone production isnt steady
2) compared to steady hormone levels, it MUST be more beneficial to have changing, pulse-like fluxes of hormones.
I understand why you support 2, but prove 2 and you'll win my vote.
Gtrack said:
you know i can agree to a point on the fact that the body doesnt always need the hormones but i cant go do a shot of suspension or pop an anadrol everytime i think i amy need some hormones floating around my system.
as far as npp beig better than deca thats the same as saying prop is better than cyp. its still test or in deca's case nandrolone. just a different ester.
most everyone i know uses long ester gear now. Winstrol (winny) and tren acetate are the last remaining NE/short ester gears around here. this is excluding orals. and now that tren enan is available folks are getting away from tren ace and most have gone to oral Winstrol (winny) instead of IM. i been doing tren ace for years (its not new) but just swithced over to tren E (it is new) last week. why? cause i can do a 1-2g in one shot. with tren a you gotta do it ed or eod. ed is better. and once again after several weeks of administration you gonna have more parent hormone in the system due to the longer half life.
as far as tested athletes using short ester gear, npp is out. nadrolone hangs around a long time regardless of the ester. same with boldenone. hell IM Winstrol (winny) is detecatable for up to 2 months after stopping shots. my advice for tested athletes. stay clean. =0) less you playing major leagues or sumpin.
and yes increased libido is a very nice side that i like a lot. and if aint never had you woman on test then you aint never had sex.
Alcibiades
New member
If you want to hydrolyze the test enanthate the easiest way is in sodium methoxide in methanol. You don't even have to remove the TE from the oil, just make sure you have decent stirring and you may even want to heat the solution somewhat. The reaction will probably take overnight.
Since you prob can't get NaOMe, you can use NaOH(sodium hydroxide) in methanol/water, about 5% water, but I use that ratio when using potassium hydroxide which is a little more soluble in methanol. This reaction is done in about 1 hour at reflux(boiling), but if you boil your solution without condensing the solvent, you will of course lose a good amount of the methanol. Leaving it overnight will accomplish the same thing but you will need to stir it esp if you are making TNE from an oil suspension.
Since you prob can't get NaOMe, you can use NaOH(sodium hydroxide) in methanol/water, about 5% water, but I use that ratio when using potassium hydroxide which is a little more soluble in methanol. This reaction is done in about 1 hour at reflux(boiling), but if you boil your solution without condensing the solvent, you will of course lose a good amount of the methanol. Leaving it overnight will accomplish the same thing but you will need to stir it esp if you are making TNE from an oil suspension.
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