Having high hematocrit !?

[darkwing86]

Hey guys , just wondering for those of you guys who have had high hematocrit , what kinds of symtoms have you guys felt ? I havent donated blood in quite some time so i can imagine mine may be high . Ive just been noticing this heavy intense crash feeling lately after work and the gym . My face gets all red and flushed and i feel hot , extremely tired and even nauseas .
Been happening very frequently after physical activity like work or the gym within maybe 15 mins of stopping it . IM going to donate blood but just wondering if this could be caused by that ? i am managing estrogen ... but bloodwork is hard to get in canada

 

[Roush]

i would not doubt that your Hemoglobin is in the 19-20+ range . this is not good. That means hematocrit is probably in the 53+ range (which significantly increases your risk of stroke)

when your hemoglobin gets to a certain point , even donating blood is NOT going to help . you have to come off all the androgens , not even a cruise dose of test, for around 4-6 months.

light headed , dizzy, lethargic , lack of motivation, ruddy and flushed skin , easily bruised , are all signs of significantly elevated Hemoglobin / hematorcrit.

I've been there . even though I'm on doctor prescribed TRT , I even had to come off of my TRT dose of test completely . NO androgens whatsoever for 6 months. I did a complete detox.

some guys are way more genetically effected* by elevated hematocrit with exogenous androgens. I'm one of them.
I've had to end many a cycle early because of this . when it gets real bad it then turns into trouble breathing, claustrophobia, and then sleep apnea (on top of the above symptoms)

you should get this checked out asap , and then get off the androgens. you can't keep injecting stuff that is causing the problems.

it sucks coming off of everything for 4-6 months , especially if your used to blasting and cruising or running TRT like me. but you can look into a 'bridge' to help maintain gains while you come off and get this issue cleared up.

you can run HGH, and slin. You can Run that along with a SARMS cycle, and possible some IGF-1 lr3 to help keep some fullness in the muscle while off the androgens.

BELEIVE ME . you will feel way better once your off for awhile and completely detox and get that hematorcrit way down back to normal , and then when you get back on , bam its like a newbie cycle again


* I recall reading somewhere that guys of anglo-saxon and upper european descent are more genetically prone to hematocrit issues with exogenous androgens. not sure if you fit that or not

 

[carverelli]

Last test had my hct at 53. A year ago was up to 56. Df ok I know the feeling... religious about draining blood every 7 weeks, although it also leads to low iron do I supplement that as well.

 

[soldier74]

i would not doubt that your Hemoglobin is in the 19-20+ range . this is not good. That means hematocrit is probably in the 53+ range (which significantly increases your risk of stroke)

when your hemoglobin gets to a certain point , even donating blood is NOT going to help . you have to come off all the androgens , not even a cruise dose of test, for around 4-6 months.

light headed , dizzy, lethargic , lack of motivation, ruddy and flushed skin , easily bruised , are all signs of significantly elevated Hemoglobin / hematorcrit.

I've been there . even though I'm on doctor prescribed TRT , I even had to come off of my TRT dose of test completely . NO androgens whatsoever for 6 months. I did a complete detox.

some guys are way more genetically effected* by elevated hematocrit with exogenous androgens. I'm one of them.
I've had to end many a cycle early because of this . when it gets real bad it then turns into trouble breathing, claustrophobia, and then sleep apnea (on top of the above symptoms)

you should get this checked out asap , and then get off the androgens. you can't keep injecting stuff that is causing the problems.

it sucks coming off of everything for 4-6 months , especially if your used to blasting and cruising or running TRT like me. but you can look into a 'bridge' to help maintain gains while you come off and get this issue cleared up.

you can run HGH, and slin. You can Run that along with a SARMS cycle, and possible some IGF-1 lr3 to help keep some fullness in the muscle while off the androgens.

BELEIVE ME . you will feel way better once your off for awhile and completely detox and get that hematorcrit way down back to normal , and then when you get back on , bam its like a newbie cycle again


* I recall reading somewhere that guys of anglo-saxon and upper european descent are more genetically prone to hematocrit issues with exogenous androgens. not sure if you fit that or not

Do u suggest donating blood during the time off androgens Roush?? If so, how often? Thanks!

 

[Roush]

Do u suggest donating blood during the time off androgens Roush?? If so, how often? Thanks!

when your not on Androgens your blood levels will come down naturally on their own. Personally I would donate at the end of every cycle ( I'm on TRT so its a constant issue for me), and then stopping AAS use after should be all thats needed.
Donating too often though has its own host of problems as well. Thats why I'm a fan of a time of complete detox from all androgen use

BUT.. in regards to donating blood as the main way to lower hematocrit , keep this in mind.

Patients with primary polycythemia sometimes receive therapeutic phlebotomy; however, there are no data to support widespread adoption of this practice in testosterone-induced polycythemia. Although this approach seems plausible and may prove beneficial, there are no guidelines for when and how often to perform phlebotomy in this population.

In conclusion, testosterone replacement therapy sometimes increases hemoglobin and hematocrit with or without an increase the red cell mass. Thus, it is prudent to monitor for polycythemia in patients receiving chronic testosterone replacement therapy. Testosterone dosages should be decreased or possibly discontinued if the hematocrit increases to above 50%. Likewise, clinicians should monitor for the onset of signs and symptoms of polycythemia in these patients, such as ruddy skin***8230; medscape . com

discontinuing androgen use for a certain period of time is the only sure way of lowering exogenous androgen induced polycythemia.. donating can help to a certain degree is all

 

[darkwing86]

Roush thank you so much for the response brother . Im going to try and get blood work done and see if i can check where my levels are at . i dont have the easily bruised symtpom .. and this aminly seems to happen to me specficly after work or workout . pretty much after any physical activity i have a crash feeling where i feel hot , my mind just wants to shut off and i feel completely wacked out like my mind isnt working

 

[soldier74]

Roush thank you so much for the response brother . Im going to try and get blood work done and see if i can check where my levels are at . i dont have the easily bruised symtpom .. and this aminly seems to happen to me specficly after work or workout . pretty much after any physical activity i have a crash feeling where i feel hot , my mind just wants to shut off and i feel completely wacked out like my mind isnt working

Get on it bro. U need to keep your health priority. Hope best for ya!

 

[Roush]

Roush thank you so much for the response brother . Im going to try and get blood work done and see if i can check where my levels are at .

If you can't get blood work done for awhile, and you still go to donate blood , at the blood donation center they will check your Hemoglobin with a finger prick before your able to donate . just ask them when they do that what the result is

 

[soldier74]

when your not on Androgens your blood levels will come down naturally on their own. Personally I would donate at the end of every cycle ( I'm on TRT so its a constant issue for me), and then stopping AAS use after should be all thats needed.
Donating too often though has its own host of problems as well. Thats why I'm a fan of a time of complete detox from all androgen use

BUT.. in regards to donating blood as the main way to lower hematocrit , keep this in mind.




discontinuing androgen use for a certain period of time is the only sure way of lowering exogenous androgen induced polycythemia.. donating can help to a certain degree is all

Ok. Thanks. So which blood test would one need to Get to check hematocrit? Same one used for testosterone?

 

[Roush]

it will be listed in with a standard blood panel profile , there with blood glucose, liver enzymes, creatinine, etc.

 

[Mprtz]

Minor quibble:

HCT will be part of tests collectively referred to as CBC (complete blood count)
liver enzymes, BUN, glucose etc. will be part of CMP (comprehensive metab0lic profile).

Both are included in many low-cost test packages, including the popular "hormone panel for females"

 

[Mprtz]

when your not on Androgens your blood levels will come down naturally on their own. Personally I would donate at the end of every cycle ( I'm on TRT so its a constant issue for me), and then stopping AAS use after should be all thats needed.
Donating too often though has its own host of problems as well. Thats why I'm a fan of a time of complete detox from all androgen use

BUT.. in regards to donating blood as the main way to lower hematocrit , keep this in mind.




discontinuing androgen use for a certain period of time is the only sure way of lowering exogenous androgen induced polycythemia.. donating can help to a certain degree is all

Roush I'm interested in how you reached this conclusion... did you decide on your own to go off all androgens, or was your hand forced by medical circumstances related to HCT? If you don't mind my asking: what were they? BP?

Did you go off cold turkey or attempt a restart?

Not idle curiosity, may be forced into this myself and would like to benefit from your experience, thanks.

 

[Roush]

Roush I'm interested in how you reached this conclusion... did you decide on your own to go off all androgens, or was your hand forced by medical circumstances related to HCT? If you don't mind my asking: what were they? BP?

Did you go off cold turkey or attempt a restart?

Not idle curiosity, may be forced into this myself and would like to benefit from your experience, thanks.

sure thing , I can just tell you my experience , there was nothing overly 'medical' about it in regards to tests or anything.

i went to the doc with some health concerns and high blood pressure issues. basically a bunch of health issues that I never had in my life had suddenly all come at once. I developed sleep apnea, claustrophobia, anxiety, my skin was always red and flushed, breathing issues, lethargy, etc.. After an EKG and blood work , the doc was only concerned about my Hematocrit being high .
think I was at like 55 , where as in years past was always at like 45.

his advice was simple , stop taking whatever it is your taking and get off of TRT , its not helping my overall health . he is not a fan of TRT.

so I just decided to stop taking all androgens all together including my TRT for 6 months . Every single health problem I had went away and corrected itself. BP was 200/100 before ,, it went down to 115/65. hematocrit dropped to 47 . no more sleep apnea, my skin was no longer flushed.

i did not do a re-start or anything . I got off everything cold turkey and just dealt with the low sex drive and the brain fog. but other than that , i felt really good and former issues were completely gone .

so now , being I'm NOT just doing TRT and i do blast other compounds often . I feel its important to take that time off of all androgens and detox and get everything fresh. just for overall health .




NOTE: I was not just on TRT though , so keep that in mind . I was blasting plenty of other compounds often as well , Deca, Primo , Dbol, Test Prop at over a gram a week etc.. after a blast I'd go back to just TRT at 200 mg a week.

NOTE: for guys just on TRT they may not need to go off for 6 months like i did at all , especially after getting everything dialed in . this is more my advice for guys that blast and cruise and are always having issues of high hematocrit , and developing sleep apnea and high blood pressure. sometimes its good to take the time off

 

[tx045]

sure thing , I can just tell you my experience , there was nothing overly 'medical' about it in regards to tests or anything.

i went to the doc with some health concerns and high blood pressure issues. basically a bunch of health issues that I never had in my life had suddenly all come at once. I developed sleep apnea, claustrophobia, anxiety, my skin was always red and flushed, breathing issues, lethargy, etc.. After an EKG and blood work , the doc was only concerned about my Hematocrit being high .
think I was at like 55 , where as in years past was always at like 45.

his advice was simple , stop taking whatever it is your taking and get off of TRT , its not helping my overall health . he is not a fan of TRT.

so I just decided to stop taking all androgens all together including my TRT for 6 months . Every single health problem I had went away and corrected itself. BP was 200/100 before ,, it went down to 115/65. hematocrit dropped to 47 . no more sleep apnea, my skin was no longer flushed.

i did not do a re-start or anything . I got off everything cold turkey and just dealt with the low sex drive and the brain fog. but other than that , i felt really good and former issues were completely gone .

so now , being I'm NOT just doing TRT and i do blast other compounds often . I feel its important to take that time off of all androgens and detox and get everything fresh. just for overall health .




NOTE: I was not just on TRT though , so keep that in mind . I was blasting plenty of other compounds often as well , Deca, Primo , Dbol, Test Prop at over a gram a week etc.. after a blast I'd go back to just TRT at 200 mg a week.

NOTE: for guys just on TRT they may not need to go off for 6 months like i did at all , especially after getting everything dialed in . this is more my advice for guys that blast and cruise and are always having issues of high hematocrit , and developing sleep apnea and high blood pressure. sometimes its good to take the time off

Did you get any bloodwork done while you detoxed? What were your test levels etc?

 

[darkwing86]

Roush , my only concern about going off everything say even a trt regimen ( and i know its stupid but i think its how we all think )... but 6 months with no test ? how can one maintain his gains in this time ? especially if over genetic potential already ? im sure youd lose a considerable amount of mass no ? or are there ways to maintain it ?

 

[lifterjaydawg]

If you're not sure I would rec going to doc for bloods

 

[Roush]

Did you get any bloodwork done while you detoxed? What were your test levels etc?

no not during that time, but I'm sure it was pretty non existent. I was diagnosed hypogonadal years ago before I ever touched test or any AAS , so there was no chance, that i'm aware of of anything coming back. I did not bother even trying. I just dealt with it. If I'd go back in time and re-do it , I'd of went about it differently.
but to be honest , it was not really all that bad. especially being all my negative health issues all cleared up. my wife was not all that happy about it though

 

[49ER]

I completely understand. It may of been easier for me then it may be for you , because pretty much every summer I limit my AAS use completely (stay on trt only) and rarely even go to the gym (I spend more time on the golf course, racing cars, outside sports etc.. and am not a gym rat at those times) . so when I went off everything it was in the spring and going into summer. it was not that big a deal to me to lose 20 pounds . I've done that most summers and then gain it right back in the fall when i hit the gym and the AAS again.


however for you , if your trying to make gains year round . then it will be more difficult (mentally) for you. cause gains will cease or slow down at the least.

but are you on TRT ? If not, can't you run your normal PCT and recover natty levels ?

if you can get natty levels recovered , then you can bridge and help maintain gains with a non androgenic 'bridge' until you get back on.

your could stack Peptides together like MK-677 with CJC-1295, along with actual exogenous HGH, and then run those together with a moderate cycling of Insulin , along with IGF-1 . <--- not only can you maintain gains with that type of stack for 4-6 months , you can make new gains and growth. with zero hematocrit related issues.**

on top the above, if you were on trt, and your hpta is permanently suppressed and your not able to get your natty levels back ,, then you won't worry about the shut down of some SARMs . you could run an Ostarine or LGD on top of the above peptide/hgh/insulin protocol .


** I'm actually doing something very similar myself when I'm done with my current Tren+Mast then Ment cycle.. will go to a very very low 100mg of test e every 10 days , and then will just be running HGH + Slin + Peptides . the reason being is because I want to get off the androgens again for awhile . and from my research I'm convinced with the right protocols you can still make gains with just HGH slin and peptides.



the above though is all just talk though for now , what really matters is blood work and seeing what is going on

 

[Milton]

What were your test levels at?

 

[Roush]

I completely understand. It may of been easier for me then it may be for you , because pretty much every summer I limit my AAS use completely (stay on trt only) and rarely even go to the gym (I spend more time on the golf course, racing cars, outside sports etc.. and am not a gym rat at those times) . so when I went off everything it was in the spring and going into summer. it was not that big a deal to me to lose 20 pounds . I've done that most summers and then gain it right back in the fall when i hit the gym and the AAS again.


however for you , if your trying to make gains year round . then it will be more difficult (mentally) for you. cause gains will cease or slow down at the least.

but are you on TRT ? If not, can't you run your normal PCT and recover natty levels ?

if you can get natty levels recovered , then you can bridge and help maintain gains with a non androgenic 'bridge' until you get back on.

your could stack Peptides together like MK-677 with CJC-1295, along with actual exogenous HGH, and then run those together with a moderate cycling of Insulin , along with IGF-1 . <--- not only can you maintain gains with that type of stack for 4-6 months , you can make new gains and growth. with zero hematocrit related issues.**

on top the above, if you were on trt, and your hpta is permanently suppressed and your not able to get your natty levels back ,, then you won't worry about the shut down of some SARMs . you could run an Ostarine or LGD on top of the above peptide/hgh/insulin protocol .


** I'm actually doing something very similar myself when I'm done with my current Tren+Mast then Ment cycle.. will go to a very very low 100mg of test e every 10 days , and then will just be running HGH + Slin + Peptides . the reason being is because I want to get off the androgens again for awhile . and from my research I'm convinced with the right protocols you can still make gains with just HGH slin and peptides.



the above though is all just talk though for now , what really matters is blood work and seeing what is going on

why in the heck is post #18 showing up as 49ers post? and not Roush , weird