Higher than normal Estrogen levels - post PCT
- Thread starter bigben66
- Start date
The urologist or endo will likely ask you to take more tests. Do them first thing in the morning and fasted to rule out those as factors for the low levels on this test. I don't see how you'd be secondary but primary maybe.
bigben66
New member
Sorry XELFLEC, I'm not familiar with 'Nvm'?
bigben66
New member
Thanks Dre... My appointment is in 10 days, I'll be sure to fast beforehand... unfortunately I won't have a say in the timing of the appt...
What would the likely treatment be should your suspicions of 'secondary hypogonadism' be correct?
Megatron28
Moderator
I don't think you have an estrogen problem. In pg/mL you are at 30. That's just about near perfect! Whatever you are currently doing, keep doing it. If that means no Aromatase inhibitor (AI) or DIM, don't start taking it.
You definitely have Low T for your age. In ng/dL, which guys on this side of the pond are more familiar with, you are at 268. That's hypogonadism in my book (but maybe not all doctors). Your LH and FSH are in the normal range though. Here's the definitions I have always gone by:
Low T and High LH/FSH = Primary
Low T and Low or Normal LH/FSH = Secondary
Your testicles are not producing enough Test. If you pituitary recognized that it would be "yelling" for them to make more -- thus High LH/FSH. Your pituitary isn't "yelling". The reality is that it is probably more complicated than that -- you probably have issues with both your testicles and pituitary to some degree. It isn't always necessarily one or the other. It can be some of both that are at fault.
If I were you I would get more tests like DreDay187 recommended and confirm the results. If you haven't recently, check your Thyroid, Prolactin, Vitamin D and IGF-1 too. Have your testicles physically examined to make sure the plumbing is all good. Maybe you have a varicele or something. If you are really worried, you could get an MRI of your pituitary also. A sleep study is always recommended as well to make sure you don't have sleep apnea or similar problems.
But if labs comes back the same, I think it might be worth trying a restart (PCT). See if you can get things going again. I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet. If that doesn't work then it would be time for TRT. Only issue is that from what I hear other guys in the UK saying, it can be really difficult to have a doc there put you on TRT. My understanding is that they require TT levels significantly lower than your current level. So be prepared for that potential fight.
Here is some informative reading.
https://aace.com/files/hypo-gonadism.pdf
You definitely have Low T for your age. In ng/dL, which guys on this side of the pond are more familiar with, you are at 268. That's hypogonadism in my book (but maybe not all doctors). Your LH and FSH are in the normal range though. Here's the definitions I have always gone by:
Low T and High LH/FSH = Primary
Low T and Low or Normal LH/FSH = Secondary
Your testicles are not producing enough Test. If you pituitary recognized that it would be "yelling" for them to make more -- thus High LH/FSH. Your pituitary isn't "yelling". The reality is that it is probably more complicated than that -- you probably have issues with both your testicles and pituitary to some degree. It isn't always necessarily one or the other. It can be some of both that are at fault.
If I were you I would get more tests like DreDay187 recommended and confirm the results. If you haven't recently, check your Thyroid, Prolactin, Vitamin D and IGF-1 too. Have your testicles physically examined to make sure the plumbing is all good. Maybe you have a varicele or something. If you are really worried, you could get an MRI of your pituitary also. A sleep study is always recommended as well to make sure you don't have sleep apnea or similar problems.
But if labs comes back the same, I think it might be worth trying a restart (PCT). See if you can get things going again. I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet. If that doesn't work then it would be time for TRT. Only issue is that from what I hear other guys in the UK saying, it can be really difficult to have a doc there put you on TRT. My understanding is that they require TT levels significantly lower than your current level. So be prepared for that potential fight.
Here is some informative reading.
https://aace.com/files/hypo-gonadism.pdf
bigben66
New member
Wow.... I can't thank you enough for taking the time to answer my query Megatron...
I have noted everything you have said and printed off the document on the link you suggested for some bedtime reading...
I too have also heard that UK doc's are a bit behind the times when it comes to this field - I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the guy I see will be proactive.
Once again, thanks for your input... I'll be back on after I've seen the urologist.
Be healthy
Megatron28
Moderator
Wow.... I can't thank you enough for taking the time to answer my query Megatron...
I have noted everything you have said and printed off the document on the link you suggested for some bedtime reading...
I too have also heard that UK doc's are a bit behind the times when it comes to this field - I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the guy I see will be proactive.
Once again, thanks for your input... I'll be back on after I've seen the urologist.
Be healthy
Good luck. And let the guys here know if you have any questions before or after your appt.
bigben66
New member
I sure will... I'm just trying to arm myself with as much information as I can beforehand so I don't walk in there and have the wool pulled over my eyes...
halfwit
I like turtles.
Well damn said Megatron. I'd rep you again if I could.
Best of luck Bigben66, just remember the hurdles are worth the end result. I do find it almost prophetic that you came here looking for information on E2, and ended up needing more info on TRT. Almost scary.
bigben66
New member
Well damn said Megatron. I'd rep you again if I could.
Best of luck Bigben66, just remember the hurdles are worth the end result. I do find it almost prophetic that you came here looking for information on E2, and ended up needing more info on TRT. Almost scary.
Haha.... Prophetic indeed!
I have no qualms in admitting that I've known I've been heading down the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) road for the past couple of years... I just want to get every last drop out of my own system before I jump on board...
I think the time is nigh now though... My marriage depends on it!
Thanks guys
halfwit
I like turtles.
If that's what ends up happening, you can always look at the bright side; no more post cycle therapy (pct).
Megatron28
Moderator
Prudens: I think I gave you a link to this before. It talks about what LH and FSH do. Basically they create a feedback loop within the HPTA.
THE TESTIS AND MALE SEXUAL FUNCTION
Here is an excerpt on the two of them:
Hypothalamic Pituitary Function
The hypothalamus is the principal integrative unit responsible for the normal pulsatile secretion of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH), which is delivered through the hypothalamic-hypophyseal portal blood system to the pituitary gland ( Chapter 241 ). Although GnRH has been identified in many areas of the CNS, it is most concentrated in the medial basal, arcuate, and suprachiasmatic nuclei in the hypothalamus and travels by axonomic flow to the axon terminals of the median eminence. The pulsatile release of GnRH provides the signals for the timing of the release of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), which in normal circumstances occurs approximately every 60 to 90 minutes. The secretion of GnRH is regulated in a complex fashion by neuronal input from higher cognitive and sensory centers and by circulating levels of sex steroids and peptide hormones such as prolactin and leptin. The local effectors of GnRH synthesis and release include a number of neuropeptides (galanin-like peptide, kisspeptins, neuropeptide Y, vasoactive intestinal peptide, corticotropin-releasing peptide), catecholamines, indolamines, nitric oxide and excitatory amino acids, -aminobutyric acid, and dopamine. Testosterone either directly or through its metabolic products (i.e., estradiol and dihydrotestosterone) has inhibitory effects on the secretion and release of GnRH as well as direct inhibitory effects on secretion and release of LH and FSH. Prolactin is a potent inhibitor of GnRH secretion, thus explaining its role in inhibiting LH and testosterone secretion in conditions of hyperprolactinemia.
LH and FSH are glycopeptides consisting of two subunits. They share the same subunit, with specificity endowed by the subunit. The heterodimer is required for biologic activity; the subunits can be detected in serum and may be increased in certain pathologic conditions (e.g. subunit elevations in gonadotropin-secreting pituitary adenomas). LH and FSH are synthesized in the same pituitary cell (gonadotrophs) and secreted in a pulsatile pattern. The clearance of these two gonadotrophic hormones differs, with LH having a shorter half-life than FSH. LH and FSH are secreted in a pulsatile pattern regulated by GnRH pulse generator in the hypothalamus. Puberty is heralded by nighttime pulsatile serum patterns before obvious increases are noted in the daytime. Feedback regulation of LH and FSH secretion also occurs at the pituitary, with testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and estrogens inhibiting the synthesis or release of both gonadotropins. Circulating testicular peptide products of the Sertoli cell (i.e., inhibin) also produce selective inhibition of FSH. LH and FSH circulate unbound to carrier proteins and act predominantly through specific cell surface receptors on the Leydig and Sertoli cells of the testes, respectively.
Testis Function
The testis is a complex organ consisting of (1) seminiferous tubules containing Sertoli cells and germ cells in various stages of maturation and (2) the interstitium, where the steroid-secreting cells (Leydig), macrophages, myoid cells, and blood vessels reside ( Fig. 253-2 ). The Leydig cells synthesize steroid hormones under the regulation of LH. The LH receptors on the cell surface of the Leydig cells lead to G protein/cyclic adenosine monophosphate***8211;mediated events. This process involves a steroid acute regulatory (StAR) protein essential for steroidogenesis in the gonads and adrenal glands ( Fig. 253-3 ).
bigben66
New member
Good luck Bigben, we are all pulling for you and hoping for the best. Megatron is extremely well-versed with these matters and has given you some amazing information to arm yourself before meeting with the endo/uro. Let us know if you need anything my friend
Thanks Dre, this forum is proving to be priceless...
Not only for gear and training advice (and I'm a PT who has been lifting for 25yrs!) but also now health matters...
I can't thank your good selves enough
Thanks Dre, this forum is proving to be priceless...
Not only for gear and training advice (and I'm a PT who has been lifting for 25yrs!) but also now health matters...
I can't thank your good selves enough
In the end it all boils down to helping each other as a community/family. We're only as strong as our weakest link and arming everyone with the necessary knowledge to promote well being while achieving desired results is the first step in strengthening our "chain".
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