How do I not waste so much of what is in the syringe?

[WasHousebound]

In a BD Slip Tip syringe and needles, exactly 0.1ml is wasted on each injection (you can test that by drawing back in what you are about to throw away, and hold it upright, tapping it, and reading the measurement). Since I only inject 0.25ml twice a week (which eliminated tendency toward gynomastia), I'm wasting 0.1ml out of 0.35ml drawn from the bottle = 28.57% of my prescription. Eliminating all waste and refilling my prescription at the exact same rate would allow me 128mg/wk testosterone instead of the prescribed 100mg/wk. Not much difference, but it beats trying to get my doctor to increase my prescription for now.

Let me state the obvious: injecting just once per week reduces waste by half but I don't want to do that.

Unless more efficient syringes exist, I have an idea that I'd like to get feedback on:
Like running carrots through a juicer after expensive ingredients, what about drawing some other sterile product into the syringe that is also beneficial or at least neutral, and injecting that? If that is reasonable, what is a good product to inject that can be bought without a prescription, or a prescription that a doctor would not object to?

B12 seems like a possible choice, since excess is just excreted and it may boost energy, but B12 is water based rather than oil based, right? Since oil and water do not mix, what are the consequences of that?

Is there another choice that is thin and easy to inject? My doctor would go along with a reasonable choice.... I just don't know what my options are!

 

[Chiefy]

-Draw up your desired dose and pull the needle out of the vial

-Hold your syringe with the tip of the needle aimed toward the ceiling

-Pull back on the plunger to draw the testosterone out of the needle hub

-Pull back on the plunger to draw some air into your syringe (I usually pull a little more than .1cc)

-Switch to your injection needle

-Invert your syringe (tip of needle facing toward the floor) and allow the air bubble to rise so it sits against the plunger

-Inject at a downward angle (easy for quads, helps to lay on your side for delts, etc.)

-Since the air bubble is behind the oil, it will push all of the remaining oil out of your syringe

-You'll probably hear a rush of air when you get to the bubble, completely normal

-Enjoy!

 

[WasHousebound]

I did consider that, but ... fear! What does the air that I might inadvertently inject into the muscle do? I get charlie-horses pretty easily, especially when I first learned to inject.

 

[Chiefy]

I did consider that, but ... fear! What does the air that I might inadvertently inject into the muscle do? I get charlie-horses pretty easily, especially when I first learned to inject.

No effect at all. A little bit of air is completely harmless.

And it's not being done inadvertently. You'll be purposefully injecting a bit of air.

 

[blinky1er]

No effect at all. A little bit of air is completely harmless.

And it's not being done inadvertently. You'll be purposefully injecting a bit of air.

Im not trying to contradict you but I heard that a little bittle of air into your blood vessels can be fatal? Maybe im wrong.

 

[Megatron28]

Im not trying to contradict you but I heard that a little bittle of air into your blood vessels can be fatal? Maybe im wrong.

Don't inject test into a blood vessel. Inject it intramuscularly.

There is a risk though when doing this that you could accidentally inject air into a major blood vessel. Make sure you know what you are doing.

If it were me, I would not worry about the few small drops of test that are being wasted. It is an extremely small amount. Test is cheap after all.

 

[blinky1er]

Don't inject test into a blood vessel. Inject it intramuscularly.

There is a risk though when doing this that you could accidentally inject air into a major blood vessel. Make sure you know what you are doing.

If it were me, I would not worry about the few small drops of test that are being wasted. It is an extremely small amount. Test is cheap after all.

Yep fair enoug5n, and seeing as were on the topic. When injecting, to make sure that it isnt a blood vessel is that when u draw the needle back? Like if a bit of blood comes up thats the vessel and if not and its hard to pull back then shes right to go?

 

[Chiefy]

Im not trying to contradict you but I heard that a little bittle of air into your blood vessels can be fatal? Maybe im wrong.

That's a common misconception, no worries.

As Mega stated, you'll be injecting into the muscle and not any veins or arteries. Even if you injected a small amount of air into a major blood vessel, there would be no reason to be concerned.

Sure, in the movies a little bit of air into the vein kills the victim, but that's not how it really works. It would take an extremely large volume of air directly into the bloodstream to cause any type of negative effect. We're talking about the type of volume that wouldn't even come close to fitting into your syringe.

Small amounts of air are introduced to veins and arteries daily during IV starts, medication injections, and surgery. Small air bubbles are simply absorbed by the body with zero ill effects.

So a little bit of air into the muscle is nothing to worry about.

 

[Jimstigator]

"Unless more efficient syringes exist"... They do...why not just switch to a 1 piece insulin syringe? Virtually zero waste when compared to a two piece.

-Jim

 

[cybrsage]

20 mL of air in your veins can cause serious damage, 40 mL can kill you. If your syringe is only 3mL in totality you would have to be the unluckiest person on Earth to kill yourself via an air injection.

 

[WasHousebound]

Air? Such a simple solution! I really appreciate it, thank you. That's what I'll do.

 

[juced_porkchop]

-Draw up your desired dose and pull the needle out of the vial

-Hold your syringe with the tip of the needle aimed toward the ceiling

-Pull back on the plunger to draw the testosterone out of the needle hub

-Pull back on the plunger to draw some air into your syringe (I usually pull a little more than .1cc)

-Switch to your injection needle

-Invert your syringe (tip of needle facing toward the floor) and allow the air bubble to rise so it sits against the plunger

-Inject at a downward angle (easy for quads, helps to lay on your side for delts, etc.)

-Since the air bubble is behind the oil, it will push all of the remaining oil out of your syringe

-You'll probably hear a rush of air when you get to the bubble, completely normal

-Enjoy!

^ Dont do this.IMO.. dont inject air..
suck it up, everyone accepts and expects loss with each shot. for every 10ml expect 9-9.5ml. 30ml 2ml a week and your good for about 13-14 weeks
Kinda custy like to be like this over gear IMO

 

[juced_porkchop]

20 mL of air in your veins can cause serious damage, 40 mL can kill you. If your syringe is only 3mL in totality you would have to be the unluckiest person on Earth to kill yourself via an air injection.

This is true.. but i still rather not put air in me.. end up with a air bible to the brain. docs and nurses would not even bother to tap out and air if it was THAT unneeded...
sorry I am not with you guys on the bubble to save a drop of gear wagon..

 

[WasHousebound]

Chiefy: Is this what you do, or is it just something you thought of hypothetically?

If my testosterone was over the counter or black market, I wouldn't worry about it; it is indeed cheap. Since it is regulated, and my doctors watch everything I do closely, I figure using the 28.57% that I would otherwise waste is significant (calculated from drawing and injecting .25ml each time, then drawing it back in to see what is about to be thrown away), allowing me 128.57mg/wk using my prescription of 100mg/wk.

Of course, air was not my idea when I wrote this thread. I was wondering if a vitamin, mineral, saline solution, or some boost that is easy to get could be drawn and injected to use up the waste, wasting gear is cheaper than wasting testosterone, since I get mine by prescription. I'd still like to know if some liquid is a viable solution.

 

[Chiefy]

This is true.. but i still rather not put air in me.. end up with a air bible to the brain. docs and nurses would not even bother to tap out and air if it was THAT unneeded...
sorry I am not with you guys on the bubble to save a drop of gear wagon..

Excess air is purged from IV tubing and syringes when injecting via intravenous lines. This is considered to be "best practice", but I can tell you with 100% certainty that small amounts of air frequently make it into veins during this procedure. Sometimes the extension set/IV tubing doesn't get completely flushed, a small bubble of air fails to be expelled from a syringe, etc.

Although not considered to be best practice and should be avoided, it happens...frequently. It's not a significant health risk when dealing with a small volume of air. But again, this is for IV lines, which we won't be using for testosterone.

Small amounts of air are even less of a risk when administering meds IM. The air is simply absorbed by the body. Air injected into muscle tissue carries no risk of somehow migrating into a vein or artery.

Chiefy: Is this what you do, or is it just something you thought of hypothetically?

If my testosterone was over the counter or black market, I wouldn't worry about it; it is indeed cheap. Since it is regulated, and my doctors watch everything I do closely, I figure using the 28.57% that I would otherwise waste is significant (calculated from drawing and injecting .25ml each time, then drawing it back in to see what is about to be thrown away), allowing me 128.57mg/wk using my prescription of 100mg/wk.

Of course, air was not my idea when I wrote this thread. I was wondering if a vitamin, mineral, saline solution, or some boost that is easy to get could be drawn and injected to use up the waste, wasting gear is cheaper than wasting testosterone, since I get mine by prescription. I'd still like to know if some liquid is a viable solution.

This is how I inject myself, but don't feel like you need to do this just because I suggested it. If you're uncomfortable with this method, don't do it. No need to cause yourself anxiety over your injection practices if you don't have to.

I was simply offering some advice based on my experience working in healthcare and medical training. I've been drawing and administering medications for years and although I'm not a doctor, I consider myself to be well versed on the matter.


If I were you, I'd follow Jim's advice and switch to once piece insulin needles. There is virtually no loss with these needles, as there is no needle hub in which oil can be trapped.

 

[Megatron28]

Chiefy: Is this what you do, or is it just something you thought of hypothetically?

If my testosterone was over the counter or black market, I wouldn't worry about it; it is indeed cheap. Since it is regulated, and my doctors watch everything I do closely, I figure using the 28.57% that I would otherwise waste is significant (calculated from drawing and injecting .25ml each time, then drawing it back in to see what is about to be thrown away), allowing me 128.57mg/wk using my prescription of 100mg/wk.

Of course, air was not my idea when I wrote this thread. I was wondering if a vitamin, mineral, saline solution, or some boost that is easy to get could be drawn and injected to use up the waste, wasting gear is cheaper than wasting testosterone, since I get mine by prescription. I'd still like to know if some liquid is a viable solution.

You are doing something very wrong if you are wasting 29% of every injection. It should a most be a very small drop or two left over.

 

[cybrsage]

This is true.. but i still rather not put air in me.. end up with a air bible to the brain. docs and nurses would not even bother to tap out and air if it was THAT unneeded...
sorry I am not with you guys on the bubble to save a drop of gear wagon..

Yeah, I do not bother about the miniscule amount of test I lose. I was just talking about how hard it is to actually kill yourself with air. Basically, you have to do it on purpose. As for the waste, it is so insignificant that it is not worth worrying about. I do remember a thread where someone was losing a LOT due to the way their needles were designed...the solution is to get a different type of needed.

 

[Chiefy]

You are doing something very wrong if you are wasting 29% of every injection. It should a most be a very small drop or two left over.

I don't know how I skipped over that part. OP could you please elaborate as to how so much loss is occurring?

A few drops is common, but nearly a third of your dose being lost means that something is wrong.

 

[WasHousebound]

I was quite surprised myself, but people keep questioning the math. I'll test it right now...
BD 1ml syringe "Tuberculin Slip Tip" 309659
BD 18G 1 1/2 draw needle 305196
and (not wasted for this test, I don't have extra)
BD 27G 1 1/4 injection needle 305136 (they normally offer 25G, I ask for 27G because I warm it and would rather inject it slowly in a thinner needle, another preparation of testosterone won't necessarily fit through 27G.

Here's a really easy test:
When done injecting and about to throw your sharps into a sharps container, draw the liquid back, tap and move it back and forth until the liquid is against the plunger, and look at the reference on the side of the syringe: you will see exactly 0.1ml of liquid that you are throwing away.


You can do the same, and see what you get with whatever kit you use:
I drew some tap water from a bowl, turned it upright, tapped out the bubbles, squirted it out to exactly .25ml (as shown on the side of the syringe, as would be done in the bottle), turned it facing down, squirted it into the sink (as if injecting [for dummies: don't inject that water!]), turned it upright again, drew back the water, tapped and moved it back and forth so all the water was together against the plunger, moved the plunger to exactly 0.30ml, and water was up to exactly 0.20ml; the difference showing exactly 0.10ml 'wasted'. Not only this time (with just a draw needle both ways) but I've done that exact test several times with testosterone properly drawn and injected with the 27G needle. Apparently the difference in volume of the needles (18G and 27G) is negligible. However, the body of the syringe wastes precisely 0.10ml and it must be by design; verified over and over and over. Someone please test this, there's not even any math involved!

Now for some basic algebra:
My injections are 0.25ml, the waste is 0.10ml, and the total removed from the testosterone bottle is 0.35ml. Waste/Total = .10/.35 = 0.2875 = 28.75% wasted. Then take that result and calculate waste in mg/wk (when splitting it to two injections of 200mg/ml testosterone); which ends up with 28.75mg/wk wasted. So I'm removing 128.75mg/wk from the bottle in order to inject 100mg/wk. That is significant. I can increase my dose by over 25% using the same prescription eliminating most waste.

Using the above calculations, I just now did this as follows with water, and confirmed the numbers, but will explain it with testosterone:
draw only what appears to be 0.15ml testosterone (as indicated on the side of the syringe), pull the needle from the bottle, draw back to suck the liquid from the needle into the syringe (at this point, one can verify the quantity in the needle by observing it from a reference to the level of liquid, which should show 0.25ml liquid), swap to injection needle, squirt air to position the needle to .35ml, turn it needle down and let the air bubble (thanks Chiefy for the idea) rise to the plunger and tap it if needed to get all air to the plunger, then (needle down) squirt to .25ml (at which point a drop will come out, as the body of the syringe and the needle are full of testosterone, and exactly 0.1ml of air is at the plunger) and then inject into quads. The needle would be about dry, and the injected amount would be exactly 0.25ml.

To be sure, I just repeated the test (with water and a bowl, not my quads!), and reality fits the math. That is mathematically correct. However, what a pain the ass! It isn't practical, but it is accurate.

I implore anyone reading this to repeat the same test, with the same kit or with another. People keep saying the waste is negligible, but it is in fact 0.1ml precisely with this particular kit, which is significant when the injection is only 0.25ml.

I don't want to use a one piece insulin needle (it will go dull by stabbing it into the bottle, then hurt when injected into the muscle) but I'd be curious how much is wasted doing the above test on such a needle (and when done, draw some air, and then squirt the water into a bowl and measure). My thought from the start was to inject my testosterone (drawing to .1ml less than prescribed) and then draw some liquid (vitamin B12? Saline?), and inject that (using another sharp needle) into a second muscle using up most of the waste.

If you've got testosterone to waste, by all means don't waste your time with this. If you are at your limit of your doctor's prescription, waste time instead of testosterone!

That's the math. Now the reality: that's a very long process.

 

[Megatron28]

I was quite surprised myself, but people keep questioning the math. I'll test it right now...
BD 1ml syringe "Tuberculin Slip Tip" 309659
BD 18G 1 1/2 draw needle 305196
and (not wasted for this test, I don't have extra)
BD 27G 1 1/4 injection needle 305136 (they normally offer 25G, I ask for 27G because I warm it and would rather inject it slowly in a thinner needle, another preparation of testosterone won't necessarily fit through 27G.

Here's a really easy test:
When done injecting and about to throw your sharps into a sharps container, draw the liquid back, tap and move it back and forth until the liquid is against the plunger, and look at the reference on the side of the syringe: you will see exactly 0.1ml of liquid that you are throwing away.


You can do the same, and see what you get with whatever kit you use:
I drew some tap water from a bowl, turned it upright, tapped out the bubbles, squirted it out to exactly .25ml (as shown on the side of the syringe, as would be done in the bottle), turned it facing down, squirted it into the sink (as if injecting [for dummies: don't inject that water!]), turned it upright again, drew back the water, tapped and moved it back and forth so all the water was together against the plunger, moved the plunger to exactly 0.30ml, and water was up to exactly 0.20ml; the difference showing exactly 0.10ml 'wasted'. Not only this time (with just a draw needle both ways) but I've done that exact test several times with testosterone properly drawn and injected with the 27G needle. Apparently the difference in volume of the needles (18G and 27G) is negligible. However, the body of the syringe wastes precisely 0.10ml and it must be by design; verified over and over and over. Someone please test this, there's not even any math involved!

Now for some basic algebra:
My injections are 0.25ml, the waste is 0.10ml, and the total removed from the testosterone bottle is 0.35ml. Waste/Total = .10/.35 = 0.2875 = 28.75% wasted. Then take that result and calculate waste in mg/wk (when splitting it to two injections of 200mg/ml testosterone); which ends up with 28.75mg/wk wasted. So I'm removing 128.75mg/wk from the bottle in order to inject 100mg/wk. That is significant. I can increase my dose by over 25% using the same prescription eliminating most waste.

Using the above calculations, I just now did this as follows with water, and confirmed the numbers, but will explain it with testosterone:
draw only what appears to be 0.15ml testosterone (as indicated on the side of the syringe), pull the needle from the bottle, draw back to suck the liquid from the needle into the syringe (at this point, one can verify the quantity in the needle by observing it from a reference to the level of liquid, which should show 0.25ml liquid), swap to injection needle, squirt air to position the needle to .35ml, turn it needle down and let the air bubble (thanks Chiefy for the idea) rise to the plunger and tap it if needed to get all air to the plunger, then (needle down) squirt to .25ml (at which point a drop will come out, as the body of the syringe and the needle are full of testosterone, and exactly 0.1ml of air is at the plunger) and then inject into quads. The needle would be about dry, and the injected amount would be exactly 0.25ml.

To be sure, I just repeated the test (with water and a bowl, not my quads!), and reality fits the math. That is mathematically correct. However, what a pain the ass! It isn't practical, but it is accurate.

I implore anyone reading this to repeat the same test, with the same kit or with another. People keep saying the waste is negligible, but it is in fact 0.1ml precisely with this particular kit, which is significant when the injection is only 0.25ml.

I don't want to use a one piece insulin needle (it will go dull by stabbing it into the bottle, then hurt when injected into the muscle) but I'd be curious how much is wasted doing the above test on such a needle (and when done, draw some air, and then squirt the water into a bowl and measure). My thought from the start was to inject my testosterone (drawing to .1ml less than prescribed) and then draw some liquid (vitamin B12? Saline?), and inject that (using another sharp needle) into a second muscle using up most of the waste.

If you've got testosterone to waste, by all means don't waste your time with this. If you are at your limit of your doctor's prescription, waste time instead of testosterone!

That's the math. Now the reality: that's a very long process.

You need to depress the plunger harder and all the way when you inject. Or your needles are defective. That much test should not be left in your syringe after an injection.