How to Cycle Safely by Observing Blood Counts

[halfwit]

Well done sir. Hopefully the more that start educating themselves will produce more responsible AAS users. You're definitely a great asset to this board Austinite.

 

[Armed and dangerous]

Awesome read!!! My wife is a supervisor at a hospital lab, I will see what else I can find out, maybe some inside knowledge or loop holes (not promising anything) but I will try haha

 

[Austinite]

Well done sir. Hopefully the more that start educating themselves will produce more responsible AAS users. You're definitely a great asset to this board Austinite.

Awesome read!!! My wife is a supervisor at a hospital lab, I will see what else I can find out, maybe some inside knowledge or loop holes (not promising anything) but I will try haha

Thank you, Gentlemen. Really glad to hear this.

 

[Mad- scientist]

Honestly I had never even heard of any of this tell you mentioned it. So I appreciate it greatly. It is interesting how much knowledge a person can gain when they actively participate in a forum with smart members. I feel bad for the the regular joe's running cycles and just taking their friends advice who doesn't know shit.

 

[JJamz125]

Oh wow thanks for that info! I will def get all my stuff checked before my next cycle. I'm printing this one out to keep in my journal of great info!!

 

[Mprtz]

Really appreciate the great info. I'm on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) (200mg/wk now 160mg) and in my first six weeks hct went from 43 to 48. Now it's been 4 months - Clinic didn't test for it on last blood test, not sure why. Now I'm worried it's high. Is there any way to tell (other than testing)? Any symptoms? My BP is still low. I'm planning on donating some blood or double RBC soon in any case just to try to stay ahead of the issue, hopefully I can.

Another question: does the elevated hematocrit level give any (aerobic) performance advantage? VO2 max, etc.? I don't feel any. Seems like in the TDF EPO scandal raising hematocrit was a huge factor and separated the stars from the downright uncompetitive. There must be more to it?

 

[Austinite]

Really appreciate the great info. I'm on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) (200mg/wk now 160mg) and in my first six weeks hct went from 43 to 48. Now it's been 4 months - Clinic didn't test for it on last blood test, not sure why. Now I'm worried it's high. Is there any way to tell (other than testing)? Any symptoms? My BP is still low. I'm planning on donating some blood or double RBC soon in any case just to try to stay ahead of the issue, hopefully I can.

Another question: does the elevated hematocrit level give any (aerobic) performance advantage? VO2 max, etc.? I don't feel any. Seems like in the TDF EPO scandal raising hematocrit was a huge factor and separated the stars from the downright uncompetitive. There must be more to it?

Your first question is answered in my article. Please read carefully and look for the segment titled "What Happens if I Don't Get Blood Work, are There Signs to Look for?".

Elevated hCT does not give any performance gains.

I'm surprised to see your levels increase in such a short time. Are you a smoker? Smoking increases hCT. Also, sleep apnea.

 

[Mprtz]

Your first question is answered in my article. Please read carefully and look for the segment titled "What Happens if I Don't Get Blood Work, are There Signs to Look for?".

Elevated hCT does not give any performance gains.

I'm surprised to see your levels increase in such a short time. Are you a smoker? Smoking increases hCT. Also, sleep apnea.

Sorry, should have re-read before asking. Thankfully I have none of those symptoms except perhaps headache, but I've always been prone to those. I'm not a smoker, age 49, 6', 180lbs. No sleep apnea. Will see what they say at the blood center when I attempt to donate. Since I have a prescription I was planning on being up front about medications, or is that a mistake?

Somewhat tangential, ignore the question if you like, but can you explain why raising hCT a few points with EPO turns a middle-of-the-pack cyclist into a superman, but raising hCT via AAS does nothing for us?

Lastly, on the risk of syncope during self-phlebotomy, would it help to incorporate some kind of valve that needs to be held open so that loss of consciousness would stop the flow?

 

[Mprtz]

Your first question is answered in my article. Please read carefully and look for the segment titled "What Happens if I Don't Get Blood Work, are There Signs to Look for?".

Elevated hCT does not give any performance gains.

I'm surprised to see your levels increase in such a short time. Are you a smoker? Smoking increases hCT. Also, sleep apnea.

Sorry, should have re-read before asking. Thankfully I have none of those symptoms except perhaps headache, but I've always been prone to those. I'm not a smoker, age 49, 6', 180lbs. No sleep apnea. Will see what they say at the blood center when I attempt to donate. Since I have a prescription I was planning on being up front about medications, or is that a mistake?

Somewhat tangential, ignore the question if you like, but can you explain why raising hCT a few points with EPO turns a middle-of-the-pack cyclist into a superman, but raising hCT via AAS does nothing for us?

Lastly, on the risk of syncope during self-phlebotomy, would it help to incorporate some kind of valve that needs to be held open so that loss of consciousness would stop the flow?

 

[Austinite]

Sorry, should have re-read before asking. Thankfully I have none of those symptoms except perhaps headache, but I've always been prone to those. I'm not a smoker, age 49, 6', 180lbs. No sleep apnea. Will see what they say at the blood center when I attempt to donate. Since I have a prescription I was planning on being up front about medications, or is that a mistake?

Somewhat tangential, ignore the question if you like, but can you explain why raising hCT a few points with EPO turns a middle-of-the-pack cyclist into a superman, but raising hCT via AAS does nothing for us?

Lastly, on the risk of syncope during self-phlebotomy, would it help to incorporate some kind of valve that needs to be held open so that loss of consciousness would stop the flow?

Yes, you can get a butterfly needle. But it's best to have someone their your first time. At least near by in the same room.

Other things can raise hCT, such as certain medications, dehydration, kidney issues and even high altitude locations.

I don't know what EPO is, please explain. If it's some sort of supplement, please provide the label or a link to it...

 

[Mprtz]

Yes, you can get a butterfly needle. But it's best to have someone their your first time. At least near by in the same room.

Other things can raise hCT, such as certain medications, dehydration, kidney issues and even high altitude locations.

I don't know what EPO is, please explain. If it's some sort of supplement, please provide the label or a link to it...

EPO is short for the hormone erythropoietin which stimulates production of red blood cells in bone marrow. I read Tyler Hamilton's confessional book about Doping on the US Tour de France team (I found it very interesting btw), and the book describes how cyclists used EPO to raise their hematocrit. Cyclists were disqualified from racing if they tested over 50%, but initially the use of EPO could not be detected so they were not further punished. Cyclists would do saline infusions just prior to testing to meet the limit. Later tests were developed that measured the ratio of immature RBCs to mature RBCs and thus detected EPO use. At that point, as far as I recall, they switched to blood transfusions to achieve the same end.
There's a lot in the book about how a few points higher hematocrit gave cyclists a huge competitive advantage, hence my curiosity.

 

[Austinite]

EPO is short for the hormone erythropoietin which stimulates production of red blood cells in bone marrow. I read Tyler Hamilton's confessional book about Doping on the US Tour de France team (I found it very interesting btw), and the book describes how cyclists used EPO to raise their hematocrit. Cyclists were disqualified from racing if they tested over 50%, but initially the use of EPO could not be detected so they were not further punished. Cyclists would do saline infusions just prior to testing to meet the limit. Later tests were developed that measured the ratio of immature RBCs to mature RBCs and thus detected EPO use. At that point, as far as I recall, they switched to blood transfusions to achieve the same end.
There's a lot in the book about how a few points higher hematocrit gave cyclists a huge competitive advantage, hence my curiosity.

Man... Erythropoietin is for anemics. Forget that nonsense. Going from 38 to 50 is fine, but beyond that is trouble. Too low HCT is not good as it has adverse effects.

 

[Boosted_G]

After reading this thread I went back and looked at my pre-cycle blood work and noticed that my HCT was at 46.0. I've been on cycle for 3 weeks now and I'm a little worried about my HCT going above 50.0 soon..

Should I start donating blood by this week or will l still be ok until I get my mid cycle blood test (which I'm planning to do on week 6) to see where my HCT is at by then? I'm just worried that it might be too high by then and get turned down at the blood bank.

 

[Austinite]

After reading this thread I went back and looked at my pre-cycle blood work and noticed that my HCT was at 46.0. I've been on cycle for 3 weeks now and I'm a little worried about my HCT going above 50.0 soon..

Should I start donating blood by this week or will l still be ok until I get my mid cycle blood test (which I'm planning to do on week 6) to see where my HCT is at by then? I'm just worried that it might be too high by then and get turned down at the blood bank.

If you started at 46.0, you're fine. wait till you get blood work again (unless you're running EQ).

 

[Boosted_G]

No, I'm not running EQ.

Ok, thanks for the quick response Austinite!

 

[toco]

great thread mate! Austinite docs in Australia normally require a very good reason to do bloodwork. If I wanted all that blood count stuff checked. Would this be a good excuse?
Hey doc the last bloods we did, when the nurse was taking my blood I started feeling a hell of a lot better when a pint or 2 was taken.

Should I say that? That I feel better when I have a bit of blood drained?

 

[Austinite]

great thread mate! Austinite docs in Australia normally require a very good reason to do bloodwork. If I wanted all that blood count stuff checked. Would this be a good excuse?
Hey doc the last bloods we did, when the nurse was taking my blood I started feeling a hell of a lot better when a pint or 2 was taken.

Should I say that? That I feel better when I have a bit of blood drained?

Tell them you have sleep apnea.

 

[toco]

Tell them you have sleep apnea.

ive been tested for that the other week, I have a very mild case. not even worth a cpap machine lol.

 

[Austinite]

ive been tested for that the other week, I have a very mild case. not even worth a cpap machine lol.

Tell them you live in a high altitude area.

 

[Mprtz]

I donated blood for the first time ever today, partly motivated by this thread. Hematocrit was at 53, so I'm glad I didn't wait any longer... At 55 or 56 they would have turned me away.