HPTA Restart - Year on and off log

[Anonyjim]

Last year I started a cycle with the intention to come off.. never really did.. I was on various substances year round.
I finally came off around 3 months ago, HCG was only used in the last 3 months, stupid I know.
I blasted a total of 5000ui of HCG and started my research chem Clomid and Nolva.. month later I got my blood work done and showed:

LH: <0.1 UL (1.5-8.5)
FSH: 0.1 UL (1.5-12.4)
Test: 5.4 nmol/L (12-32)
Oest: 49 pmol/L (30-150)

I felt horrible.. all the usual signs of low Testosterone etc..
Went to a known doctor and she shot me with 100mcg of Trip.. first two weeks were great, then it all dropped off and I felt worse. Went back and he then shot me again with another 100mcg, did nothing.
Week later I started pharma grade Clomid and Nolva that he prescribed me:

Clomid: 50/50/50/50
Nolva: 20/20/20/20

It's now 3 weeks into my restart and my blood work is:

LH: 28.1 UL (1.5-8.5)
FSH: 44.7UL (1.5-12.4)
Test: 25.1 nmol/L (12-32)
Oest: 129 pmol/L (30-150)

Still feeling a little crap, physiological? (Tired, Loss of Libido, ED) Is my estrogen a little too high?
I took 25mg of Aromasin tonight, will do EOD this week to see if I improve.
I started anti-depressants 2 weeks ago also.. which could cause the way I'm feeling?

Anyway, whats the safest way to stop the SERMS to keep my Test levels in range? Taper or stop after the 30 days?

 

[anzel]

Your doing Dr prescribed SERMS right? What did the Dr say to do? Did the Dr. layout a short term & long term goal? Did the Dr put you on the AI or is that on your own?

 

[STAUNCHED427]

If you ask me, you feel like shit due to the Clomid... It works at cranking the HPTA up but the price for most blokes is you will feel like an emotional, depressed, bitch with floaties across your field of vision.

Your Estro is where I keep mine, nothing wrong with it, could be a little lower, could be a little high, could be fine, everyones sweet spot varies but keep in mind Clomid mainly, and Nolva, are SERMS not total estrogen antagonists meaning they agonise some estrogen receptors in different tissues so you can get confused if you judge by mood and sides etc.

Anti-depressants can have varying effects, don't take them unless you need to and to be honest right now is probably not the time at all to be starting an anti-depressant as there is to much shit hormonally going on that needs to be sorted out and is really the cause of all this IMO.

My suggestion, drop the Clomid and keep with the Nolva and a low dose of Aromiasn, 12.5ED would do fine. Toremifene can be used in place of Nolva.

 

[Anonyjim]

Yes the SERMS I am currently taking are from the doctor. He said to run them at those doses but it's not needed with Trip.. I ran them anyway because I felt the Trip did nothing.

I'll try Aromasin at 12.5 EOD to see if it helps anything. Can't do much harm unless I crash it.
I'll stay on Clomid until the 30 days are up and extended Nolva for an extra week, just because I have read dropping both SERMS at once can sometimes cause guys Test to drop.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Nolva you probably won't be feeling shit on which is a good thing, if you can yeah stick out the 30 days but it will take probably a week or so to notice the Clomid sides dissapear as the half life is something around the 5 day mark.

Shouldn't crash e2 that easily, it's easier to crash e2 when on TRT compared to natural... Negative feedback loops mean you'll pump out more test to make up for the reduction in e2. See how you go. Bloodwork is the key with all of this.

 

[Alpin]

What about Free Test or Bio Avail.T ?

 

[Profion9k]

Quit the anti depression pills, ive seen so many people get wrecked by them then gaining anything... they are very mentallity changeing, and you know you feel crap due to hormone level rather then something emotional such as PTS or any other disorder. Mentaldisorders and its medication is no joke, quit that crap..

As for the LH and FSH daym they are running big time! I would assume that you will be going off of reboot meds in about a month once your testicle has regrown into full power. As others have asked for, ask for taking bloods every 2-3weeks.

 

[Anonyjim]

Never got Free Test or Bio Avail.T tested for, I'd assume they are within range. The anti-depressants do actually work, feeling alot better compared to when I was not on them, I'm giving them ago.. atleast for awhile anyway.
I'll post back in a few weeks with bloods after the SERMS.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Yeah but in this case the depression is directly a cause from hormones being off and I can tell you that Clomid is making you feel like this... SSRI's are not for you my man, they are a last resort and the reason they only work in some people is because only some people truly need them...

 

[Anonyjim]

I have had depression long before my cycle, just never got ontop of it, got pretty bad even during cycle.. hence why I started taking them, if things play up Ill taper off.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

I have had depression long before my cycle, just never got ontop of it, got pretty bad even during cycle.. hence why I started taking them, if things play up Ill taper off.

Fair enough well hopefully they work well for you. But I think you will be seeing an improvement in about a weeks time after Clomid is dropped...

 

[Anonyjim]

So it's been 5 days since I stopped, Clomid, Nolva and the Anti-depressants. Bloods next week.. but I now have no libido, no morning wood or any feeling down there. Fucking over it. I did have the last few days of PCT.. what could be the cause? Wait it out?

 

[NativeTX]

That sucks, Anonyjim! I've been there, though. It will get better once you're off the chlomid and your natural test starts coming back. In a restart, you should have gotten your testes kicked in using HCG before the chlomid. I know that IMT does a restart with semorelin. I was lucky enough to have a doc write a script for hgh. I couldn't afford it long term, but it helped while I was trying to restart. Most of the trt clinics will just prescribe semorelin if you can afford that. It would help. IMO

 

[johnfromeurope]

at least you shouldn't drop the aromasin for a few weeks after done with pct. Keep taking a low dose aromasin and tell how u feel.

 

[Anonyjim]

I did take it but I had sore joints etc so it was always getting too low.
It's been awhile now since I have touched anything, over feeling like shit so.. I am running another 8 week cycle. Now I know I respond well the SERMS, I'll take them for an extended period post cycle with doctor monitoring.
Have everything on hand.. HCG, Fina, Aromasin, Prami.
PCT will consist of a HCG Blast then Clomid, Nolva, TestOrod caps (various herbs for lowering SBGH), Tribulus and D3.
Cycling the right way and coming off the correct way I feel is a solution. Whether it sounds stupid or not, Ill post back and let you blokes know how I go!