info on androgen receptors

[darkwing86]

Trying to learn something here . So tren has a extremely high binding affinity for the androgen receptor correct ? much higher then that of test , so if u were to run high tren and high test , does the body refresh and create new receptors ? how does it work , will some of the test be voided and not used ? and then say u have something like deca and d-bol in there a well ?

 

[Roush]

from what I've read-- the longer you take AAS, and the higher the dosages you ramp up to, the body over time produces more receptors. why? because its a way for the body trying to deal with all the excess hormones in your system. Its trying to either rid your body of them and when it can't rid them fast enough it creates more receptor sites for them to bind to.

note: that's why it is idiotic for a newbie to run pro level amounts of gear. a pro who has ran gear for years has more receptors for more amounts of gear to bind to.. a newbie taking the same amount of gear does not, and taking the same amount of gear he becomes 'toxic' (he cannot rid the body of it fast enough nor are new receptor sites created fast enough)

 

[Roush]

someone more educated than myself can probably explain how this all works.. I'm just repeating what I've heard

 

[anzel]

I think in the case of the newbie its that they dont need a high dose because they will get a strong response because its all new to them , to their body. In other words the guy who has been blasting for years sees less effect because they already have made gains. The receptor sites are fresh too.

So as you introduce AAS you will make more recptors but once you terminate the blast you will lose those receptors. You dont keep them.

 

[Hypnotix]

I think in the case of the newbie its that they dont need a high dose because they will get a strong response because its all new to them , to their body. In other words the guy who has been blasting for years sees less effect because they already have made gains. The receptor sites are fresh too.

So as you introduce AAS you will make more recptors but once you terminate the blast you will lose those receptors. You dont keep them.

This thought relies on there being sensitivity of some sort.. I wonder how true that is. Are we more sensitive to AAS upon first use? Or are our bodies just not built even close to what the dosages are capable of taking us too and so it ramps us up to it faster? It's confusing I think.


Roush's idea of it is kind of confusing too.. plays on the idea that more receptors are created the more we use in order to handle the higher dosages. If more receptors are made to accept more AAS, than why do we get less results per mg as we use more and more I wonder?


So do we develop new receptors at all? Are the new receptors sensitive since they're new? Do we really desensitize? Does our body have a Genetic Limit per dose of a drug? Could I do 500mg Test / wk 5 times until I reached my personal weight limit at that dose?

 

[Roush]

This thought relies on there being sensitivity of some sort.. I wonder how true that is. Are we more sensitive to AAS upon first use?

Depends on where we start at.. I started on TRT when my test levels were at 168. I trained for years (mainly as a cardio based athlete) and never put on mass cause of low T. Once I got on test and was taking 200mg every 5 days I put on 30+ pounds. But my starting point was very low and my body was not used to high levels of test so it responded right away.

on the other hand if a guy naturally has 900 ngdl test and he takes a cycle of test, it prob won't be as dramatic being he has been training with fairly high levels of test to begin with.


As far as getting "less results" the more we use AAS, I'm not sure that is true. You have to figure in the "newb gains" that come with body building to begin with,, everyone gets the most gains as a newb.

its not 'harder' for a pro to somehow make gains or he gets less results with AAS cause he somehow is 'used to it'. I think they make equal gains, they just don't make 'newbie' muscle gains. same reason Rich Piana who has been running gear for years can claim he will put on 35 pounds of muscle in 4 months with his next cycle (not a lot of AAS newbs can claim that)

 

[Hypnotix]

Depends on where we start at.. I started on TRT when my test levels were at 168. I trained for years (mainly as a cardio based athlete) and never put on mass cause of low T. Once I got on test and was taking 200mg every 5 days I put on 30+ pounds. But my starting point was very low and my body was not used to high levels of test so it responded right away.

on the other hand if a guy naturally has 900 ngdl test and he takes a cycle of test, it prob won't be as dramatic being he has been training with fairly high levels of test to begin with.


As far as getting "less results" the more we use AAS, I'm not sure that is true. You have to figure in the "newb gains" that come with body building to begin with,, everyone gets the most gains as a newb.

its not 'harder' for a pro to somehow make gains or he gets less results with AAS cause he somehow is 'used to it'. I think they make equal gains, they just don't make 'newbie' muscle gains. same reason Rich Piana who has been running gear for years can claim he will put on 35 pounds of muscle in 4 months with his next cycle (not a lot of AAS newbs can claim that)

Rich Piana's claims are far from accurate. 35lbs of muscle in 4 months is not happening with any amount of drugs and food.

I would say someone at 250lbs 8% BF is going to have a very hard time getting to 255lbs only +5lbs muscle still 8% bodyfat all drugs, food, and training included.

Whereas someone like myself, not a noob, but also not advanced could easily see 5lbs of pure muscle weight with 1/5 of the drugs, food, and training..

 

[Hypnotix]

Rich Piana's claims are far from accurate. 35lbs of muscle in 4 months is not happening with any amount of drugs and food.

I would say someone at 250lbs 8% BF is going to have a very hard time getting to 255lbs only +5lbs muscle still 8% bodyfat all drugs, food, and training included.

Whereas someone like myself, not a noob, but also not advanced could easily see 5lbs of pure muscle weight with 1/5 of the drugs, food, and training..

I should also add that not all pros take ridiculously high amounts of drugs.. some take moderate amounts.

Even then, not all novices take low to moderate amounts either.. some take ridiculously high amounts!

So many variables again.. lol I feel like I say that a lot. There are so many damn people.. so many people shooting for the same goal, using different methods, having different bodies, different sensitivities, different diets, training regimens, sleeping patterns.. It's mind boggling.

 

[darkwing86]

bumping this up

 

[juced_porkchop]

your body is making new ones all the time, like many others cells. dying and growing all the time.

 

[darkwing86]

bumping for mega or halfwit lol ?

 

[halfwit]

your body is making new ones all the time, like many others cells. dying and growing all the time.

Can't really say it better than this. The body adapts for the conditions present, and will accommodate to its best capabilities to meet the demands needed.

This is kind of against the grain, but I do think novice lifters CAN take advantage of high dose cycles - but it requires a tremendous amount of planning and work. I'm talking about having professional meal prep, professional training and ensuring that the pharmaceuticals needed to keep things balanced are present.

Most "newbies" won't have access to this level of preparation, so it's a waste to run big cycles until they're not only experienced enough to train/eat properly, but also understand the drugs/sides.

There's also the fact that the human body can only process calories so efficiently even in a very anabolic state. This is a function of metabolism and of course genetics. It's why I just shook my head when I saw Piana claim 30lbs in 16 weeks - just not possible at his stage of development.

Unless he's counting the weight of the SEO he's going to dump into his fascia with a turkey baster.

 

[darkwing86]

Thank you for the response halfwit and everyone else who posted on this thread !