Are the gains that you make while using a cycle of Test Cyp alone dependent on the amount of test / free test in your system ? Meaning that do you need a higher level of testosterone in your body to support the new muscle ? If you eat the right amount of calories and train hard why do you lose muscle ?
Keeping Gains....
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Kane_Red_Machine
Guest
you will lose a small amount of gains in each cycle. about 20% of the gains ( note of the GAINs) with teststrone only cycle regarless the ester used.
20% of lost with a good post cycle therapy (pct). complete lost if no post cycle therapy (pct) at all.
20% of lost with a good post cycle therapy (pct). complete lost if no post cycle therapy (pct) at all.
glubgawd
More Noob Than You
It's called homeostasis. You should definitely read up on it.
JuiceAuthority
Newbie
The truth of the matter is you actually lose MOST of your gains when you go off. If you net 5-8 pounds consider yourself lucky. Cycling on and off is a perpetual game of "catch up" regardless of your post cycle therapy (pct) regimen. After the esters clear you're crashed. post cycle therapy (pct) is really meant to kickstart HPTA recovery. A full recovery usually takes months, sometimes longer depending on the compounds used (i.e. Tren and Deca). As you get older you're worse off after a cycle than you were before since recovery takes even longer. People don't like to acknowledge this but it is a fact. How do you keep your gains? You don't unless you reduce your dose and cruise. The obvious downside to that is you never come off. As the poster above stated the body seeks to reach its homeostasis point. The only way to change the homeostasis point is stay on extended cycles.
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JuiceAuthority
Newbie
If I could go back in time I wouldn't have touched AAS until I was 35. Peak testosterone occurs between the ages of 18-22. Natty test starts to decline at 30 and after 35 the decline is accelerated. Exceptions to this are those that are determined to compete in the sport but very few have the genetics to do so. Genetics is the biggest, most overlooked factor. You either have it or you don't and no amount of AAS, HGH and slin is going to get you to that level if you don't. Those are the cold hard facts.
i don't know who gave you the title of Juice Authority, but they need to be punched in the mouth.
Just because homeostasis exists, doesn't mean you will always revert back to it. I do agree that longer cycles help break the stasis point, but thats all i agree with you on. And it doesn't mean it can't be done without them.
And I know plenty of guys who use in their forties and recover just fine with a good post cycle therapy (pct). Now, there levels aren't as high as they were in their 20s or 30s, but no ones are as they get older. Its all relative.
To say that everyone loses their gains when they come off is ridiculous, and I'm not sure why i see this lately with alot of guys posting on this board. Unless you suck.
The people who lose their gains after a cycle do so for the following reasons:
1. Horrible post cycle therapy (pct) or bad post cycle therapy (pct) timing
2. Poor diet or training on and after cycle
3. And this is the biggest culprit, guys who rely on gear for gains instead of #2.
You see, guys think juice is what makes you grow, and that is why they fail, as most of those gains will be water and fat.
If you train your ass off (which most guys don't even know what this is who fall into this category) and eat to grow, you can make great gains and keep most of them if you do things properly after cycle.
btw, 5-8lbs of muscle is a shit ton so I wouldn't call myself lucky, i would call myself successful as that is a great cycle result.
Think its time to change ur username.
rocko3927
Known SCAMMER
i am 39 turning 40 this month. i have done a few cycles starting in my late 20's until now. most standard test cycles sometimes adding eq, win, and in my last cycle tren. through out the years i have gone from 190 to a current maintained weight of 240. keeping my most of my gains by diet and exercise and staying off for up to two years. sometimes i feel i train and eat better off cycle because i have more feer of loosing my gains. i see to many guys train and eat right on but get that fuck what's the use attitudie off, and consiquently loose thier gains. i am no expert but see what has worked for me.
PhoenixBuff
New member
This. Nice post.
i don't know who gave you the title of Juice Authority, but they need to be punched in the mouth.
Just because homeostasis exists, doesn't mean you will always revert back to it. I do agree that longer cycles help break the stasis point, but thats all i agree with you on. And it doesn't mean it can't be done without them.
And I know plenty of guys who use in their forties and recover just fine with a good post cycle therapy (pct). Now, there levels aren't as high as they were in their 20s or 30s, but no ones are as they get older. Its all relative.
To say that everyone loses their gains when they come off is ridiculous, and I'm not sure why i see this lately with alot of guys posting on this board. Unless you suck.
The people who lose their gains after a cycle do so for the following reasons:
1. Horrible post cycle therapy (pct) or bad post cycle therapy (pct) timing
2. Poor diet or training on and after cycle
3. And this is the biggest culprit, guys who rely on gear for gains instead of #2.
You see, guys think juice is what makes you grow, and that is why they fail, as most of those gains will be water and fat.
If you train your ass off (which most guys don't even know what this is who fall into this category) and eat to grow, you can make great gains and keep most of them if you do things properly after cycle.
btw, 5-8lbs of muscle is a shit ton so I wouldn't call myself lucky, i would call myself successful as that is a great cycle result.
Think its time to change ur username.
great post! i agree 100%
JuiceAuthority
Newbie
i don't know who gave you the title of Juice Authority, but they need to be punched in the mouth.
Just because homeostasis exists, doesn't mean you will always revert back to it. I do agree that longer cycles help break the stasis point, but thats all i agree with you on. And it doesn't mean it can't be done without them.
And I know plenty of guys who use in their forties and recover just fine with a good post cycle therapy (pct). Now, there levels aren't as high as they were in their 20s or 30s, but no ones are as they get older. Its all relative.
To say that everyone loses their gains when they come off is ridiculous, and I'm not sure why i see this lately with alot of guys posting on this board. Unless you suck.
The people who lose their gains after a cycle do so for the following reasons:
1. Horrible post cycle therapy (pct) or bad post cycle therapy (pct) timing
2. Poor diet or training on and after cycle
3. And this is the biggest culprit, guys who rely on gear for gains instead of #2.
You see, guys think juice is what makes you grow, and that is why they fail, as most of those gains will be water and fat.
If you train your ass off (which most guys don't even know what this is who fall into this category) and eat to grow, you can make great gains and keep most of them if you do things properly after cycle.
btw, 5-8lbs of muscle is a shit ton so I wouldn't call myself lucky, i would call myself successful as that is a great cycle result.
Think its time to change ur username.
I said they lose MOST, not all, of their gains. I can easily put on 20-30 pounds on cycle depending on what I'm using together with my caloric intake, but is that 20-30 pounds muscle or mostly water? You do realize that muscles are mostly composed of water, right, or did you skip that anatomy lesson in high school? What happens when we use AAS? Well, let me "dumb" it down for you so even a simpleton like yourself can comprehend.
Let's start with the basics because I'm obviously addressing someone with a sub-80 IQ.
An average human body is 80% water. Muscle tissue is around 75% water. Follow me so far? Ok, good.
AAS that aromatizes into estrogen (Test, dbol, deca to a lesser degree, etc.) causes water retention. That's why we gain mass very quickly, but most of it will be water not muscles. It's like inflating a balloon. What's happens to a balloon? It loses air and deflates. Well, same thing with AAS. Our muscles get "inflated" with water and they deflate post cycle. You also realize the AAS shuts down the HPTA (you know, the body's natural production of testosterone). How do we feel when we're shutdown? Are we motivated to hit the gym at the same intensity level while on or is there a "psychological" factor that comes into play post cycle? This also plays a significant role in how much we keep or lose (most people - 90%+ - get the post cycle blues and aren't as motivated to train as hard). This gets worse in your mid 30s. I'm sure you're the exception to this.
Now, to your point, how much you keep is largely contingent on your diet and training regimen, not AAS. AAS is simply a tool that enhances protein synthesis by increasing the amount of nitrogen in the body. The more protein available to the body means that the environment for muscle production is better. AAS also suppresses the body's production of cortisol after exercise. As I'm sure you know, cortisol is a muscle tissue destroyer. That said the best and most effective way to reduce cortisol levels is good old Vitamin C, PWO.
In closing, I'm right, you're wrong. You do lose most of what you gain on a cycle.
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I said they lose MOST, not all, of their gains. I can easily put on 20-30 pounds on cycle depending on what I'm using together with my caloric intake, but is that 20-30 pounds muscle or mostly water? You do realize that muscles are mostly composed of water, right, or did you skip that anatomy lesson in high school? What happens when we use AAS? Well, let me "dumb" it down for you so even a simpleton like yourself can comprehend.
Let's start with the basics because I'm obviously addressing someone with a sub-80 IQ.
An average human body is 80% water. Muscle tissue is around 75% water. Follow me so far? Ok, good.
AAS that aromatizes into estrogen (Test, dbol, deca to a lesser degree, etc.) causes water retention. That's why we gain mass very quickly, but most of it will be water not muscles. It's like inflating a balloon. What's happens to a balloon? It loses air and deflates. Well, same thing with AAS. Our muscles get "inflated" with water and they deflate post cycle. You also realize the AAS shuts down the HPTA (you know, the body's natural production of testosterone). How do we feel when we're shutdown? Are we motivated to hit the gym at the same intensity level while on or is there a "psychological" factor that comes into play post cycle? This also plays a significant role in how much we keep or lose (most people - 90%+ - get the post cycle blues and aren't as motivated to train as hard). This gets worse in your mid 30s. I'm sure you're the exception to this.
Now, to your point, how much you keep is largely contingent on your diet and training regimen, not AAS. AAS is simply a tool that enhances protein synthesis by increasing the amount of nitrogen in the body. The more protein available to the body means that the environment for muscle production is better. AAS also suppresses the body's production of cortisol after exercise. As I'm sure you know, cortisol is a muscle tissue destroyer. That said the best and most effective way to reduce cortisol levels is good old Vitamin C, PWO.
In closing, I'm right, you're wrong. You do lose most of what you gain on a cycle.
If your only motivation to hit the weights with intensity is AAS then you shouldn't be touching steroids to begin with. When your off cycle you have to work out with even more intensity than you would while on cycle if u want to maintain or even add more muscle. That is the reason why most people, especially younger guys, do not keep shit post cycle because they rely on the gear to add muscle.
Everyone can have there own opinion on this matter but it comes down to diet in the end. If you know how to maintain after cycle with food then you will keep your gains that u made. You will alwAys lose water weight when stopping aas but if your trying to say that's all that happens during a cycle then that's just stupid. Of course you hold water in your mucles but that is what makes u stronger and able to move more weight resulting in bigger stronger muscles.
I know If I put on say 20 lbs in a cycle that I'm gonna lose about 5 no matter what because of the water retention. But those other 15 Pounds I know I will keep because I know how to eat and maintain the weight I have added.
If your reasoning behind losing most of your gains is based on personal experience then maybe you should change some things up in your routines cus I feel bad if you always lose most of your gains.
burlyman
Retired Competitor
i don't know who gave you the title of Juice Authority, but they need to be punched in the mouth.
Just because homeostasis exists, doesn't mean you will always revert back to it. I do agree that longer cycles help break the stasis point, but thats all i agree with you on. And it doesn't mean it can't be done without them.
And I know plenty of guys who use in their forties and recover just fine with a good post cycle therapy (pct). Now, there levels aren't as high as they were in their 20s or 30s, but no ones are as they get older. Its all relative.
To say that everyone loses their gains when they come off is ridiculous, and I'm not sure why i see this lately with alot of guys posting on this board. Unless you suck.
The people who lose their gains after a cycle do so for the following reasons:
1. Horrible PCT or bad PCT timing
2. Poor diet or training on and after cycle
3. And this is the biggest culprit, guys who rely on gear for gains instead of #2.
You see, guys think juice is what makes you grow, and that is why they fail, as most of those gains will be water and fat.
If you train your ass off (which most guys don't even know what this is who fall into this category) and eat to grow, you can make great gains and keep most of them if you do things properly after cycle.
btw, 5-8lbs of muscle is a shit ton so I wouldn't call myself lucky, i would call myself successful as that is a great cycle result.
Think its time to change ur username.
x2. Listen to RJ, guys.
I said they lose MOST, not all, of their gains. I can easily put on 20-30 pounds on cycle depending on what I'm using together with my caloric intake, but is that 20-30 pounds muscle or mostly water? You do realize that muscles are mostly composed of water, right, or did you skip that anatomy lesson in high school? What happens when we use AAS? Well, let me "dumb" it down for you so even a simpleton like yourself can comprehend.
Let's start with the basics because I'm obviously addressing someone with a sub-80 IQ.
An average human body is 80% water. Muscle tissue is around 75% water. Follow me so far? Ok, good.
AAS that aromatizes into estrogen (Test, dbol, deca to a lesser degree, etc.) causes water retention. That's why we gain mass very quickly, but most of it will be water not muscles. It's like inflating a balloon. What's happens to a balloon? It loses air and deflates. Well, same thing with AAS. Our muscles get "inflated" with water and they deflate post cycle. You also realize the AAS shuts down the HPTA (you know, the body's natural production of testosterone). How do we feel when we're shutdown? Are we motivated to hit the gym at the same intensity level while on or is there a "psychological" factor that comes into play post cycle? This also plays a significant role in how much we keep or lose (most people - 90%+ - get the post cycle blues and aren't as motivated to train as hard). This gets worse in your mid 30s. I'm sure you're the exception to this.
Now, to your point, how much you keep is largely contingent on your diet and training regimen, not AAS. AAS is simply a tool that enhances protein synthesis by increasing the amount of nitrogen in the body. The more protein available to the body means that the environment for muscle production is better. AAS also suppresses the body's production of cortisol after exercise. As I'm sure you know, cortisol is a muscle tissue destroyer. That said the best and most effective way to reduce cortisol levels is good old Vitamin C, PWO.
In closing, I'm right, you're wrong. You do lose most of what you gain on a cycle.
nope. i'm not the exception, but you are the majority who fail to do #1 and #2 correctly in what i posted above, and you have proven my point.
You have a weak mind, thus fall prey to the pyschological effects of such and lose all your gains because you don't work out during PCT and thus fail miserably at your cycle. Which is what happens to most people who lose their gains.
you can talk all the shit you want about muscles and water etc. Point is, you have no idea how to use gear and maintain the gains you make, unless they are clearly all fat and water.
I have, and have proven myself time and time again year after year. Thus I am 5'10
and 235+LBS off cycle and have stayed that way for years until i just started this cycle. have i gained a bunch of water? Nope. You know why? Because I eat solid and train like a fucking animal. And i don't rely on gear for gains.
I'm not the one constantly failing, so instead of trying your best to insult someone on the internet (which is retarded), why not do like ECKS said, and try to succeed for once. Obvioulsy failing is keeping you small.
Good luck
burlyman
Retired Competitor
I said they lose MOST, not all, of their gains. I can easily put on 20-30 pounds on cycle depending on what I'm using together with my caloric intake, but is that 20-30 pounds muscle or mostly water? You do realize that muscles are mostly composed of water, right, or did you skip that anatomy lesson in high school? What happens when we use AAS? Well, let me "dumb" it down for you so even a simpleton like yourself can comprehend.
Let's start with the basics because I'm obviously addressing someone with a sub-80 IQ.
An average human body is 80% water. Muscle tissue is around 75% water. Follow me so far? Ok, good.
AAS that aromatizes into estrogen (Test, dbol, deca to a lesser degree, etc.) causes water retention. That's why we gain mass very quickly, but most of it will be water not muscles. It's like inflating a balloon. What's happens to a balloon? It loses air and deflates. Well, same thing with AAS. Our muscles get "inflated" with water and they deflate post cycle. You also realize the AAS shuts down the HPTA (you know, the body's natural production of testosterone). How do we feel when we're shutdown? Are we motivated to hit the gym at the same intensity level while on or is there a "psychological" factor that comes into play post cycle? This also plays a significant role in how much we keep or lose (most people - 90%+ - get the post cycle blues and aren't as motivated to train as hard). This gets worse in your mid 30s. I'm sure you're the exception to this.
Now, to your point, how much you keep is largely contingent on your diet and training regimen, not AAS. AAS is simply a tool that enhances protein synthesis by increasing the amount of nitrogen in the body. The more protein available to the body means that the environment for muscle production is better. AAS also suppresses the body's production of cortisol after exercise. As I'm sure you know, cortisol is a muscle tissue destroyer. That said the best and most effective way to reduce cortisol levels is good old Vitamin C, PWO.
In closing, I'm right, you're wrong. You do lose most of what you gain on a cycle.
I suppose if someone didn't build any foundation before they started AAS, then maybe they would see a more severe loss of their gains, but I gained 70 lbs of muscle over 5 years before I ever touched an anabolic agent. I can tell you that I have never lost more than 5 lbs after a cycle. I've had cycles where I gained 20 lbs, and ones where I gained 10-12, depending on what was used and at what dosage. I knew I would lose some water weight, but never "most" of the gains. A cycle followed by proper post cycle therapy (pct), diet, and training on a body with a muscular foundation should build solid muscle. And before you accuse me of "cruising" on gear, I've done less than a dozen cycles in a 22 year period.
Juice Authority? I don't think so.
JuiceAuthority
Newbie
LOL. As much as I'd love to go back and forth with you on this topic I should probably refrain, but what the hell? You are completely full of shit if your claim is that you keep 15 of the 20 pounds of "muscle" you gain on a cycle. That of course implies we're talking about "muscle" and not fat.
That said it isn't too uncommon for people to make these outrageous claims online. Most people like yourself tend to exaggerate quite a bit. Usually the ones that talk the most never post pics; they just talk out their ass. Hey, how about a pic to go along with your claims? If you keep 15 pounds of muscle on each cycle and assuming you've been cycling for 10+ years you should be pushing 300 pounds and ripped. Let's see it.
JuiceAuthority
Newbie
JuiceAuthority
Newbie
Genetics is by far the biggest most overlooked factor. Some people (a very small fraction) respond to AAS like Kevin Levrone. Ah, but what happened to Kevin when he stopped using AAS? He is a shadow of the enormous man he used to be.
Dreaded Pirate Roberts
Administrator
BS! If you use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) while on cycle and eat right and train right most of what you gain will be muscle. If you run Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or IGF while on cycle you will recover pretty quick. It's possible to keep more than 80% of your gains with standard PCt. I do agree it's easier to keep gains when the cycle is long.
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