Lab Results Help - TRT Needed?

[The(R)age]

36 here. For the last 2 years weight has come on and i started to feel like crap. I finally went to my family doc. Readings were 238 and 7.8 so he put me on 100mg every 2 weeks ( i argued this low dose but he was steadfast).

Got tested 24 hours after a shot and was reading in the 500s, he wanted to keep me there. Im in the process of switching to a trt clinic where they start at 175mgs every 7 days, draw again in 6 weeks and go from there.

Every person i talk to is the same story. Do not go to a family doctor. Once your over the low range number they wont increase it, even if you still feel like crap. Im not saying shoot for bodybuilder levels but they wont care as long as you are considered within range, even if you are at the ass end of it.

Edit: as i read your post further i saw your numbers. They were about double what mine were so definitely want to look at total picture. Not sure a trt clinic would even do anything for ya.

 

[casanovaaa]

Megatron28 wrote:
***8220;And if you are suggesting that a doctor will prescribe enough to give him supraphysiological levels, there just aren't many doctors out there willing to do that.***8221;

Define ***8220;Supraphysiological***8221;.

Supraphysiological: Exceeding what is normally found in healthy individuals. The term is usually used to refer to a hormone or medication given in a stronger dose than the amount the body can produce on its own.

 

[Gossamer]

Supraphysiological: Exceeding what is normally found in healthy individuals. The term is usually used to refer to a hormone or medication given in a stronger dose than the amount the body can produce on its own.

So, you’re telling me that you don’t understand that natural production of testosterone doesn’t correlate with exogenous testosterone? “Supraphysiological” levels really don’t mean a whole lot when it comes to comparing natural and exogenous.

 

[A.B]

What will bloodwork tell? That his tt is around 400, therefore he doesn***8217;t need trt?

He needs more blood work.

Prolactin. DHEA. TSH doesnt even scrape the surface for thyroid. Estradiol etc etc etc

There are plenty of more areas where blood work should be considered. His Total and free testosterone is in normal range and if it were me I would be happy and explore other reasons for those symptoms. Its beyond ignorant to say treat symptoms of TRT when it could be a lot of other shit

 

[Gossamer]

He needs more blood work.

Prolactin. DHEA. TSH doesnt even scrape the surface for thyroid. Estradiol etc etc etc

There are plenty of more areas where blood work should be considered. His Total and free testosterone is in normal range and if it were me I would be happy and explore other reasons for those symptoms. Its beyond ignorant to say treat symptoms of TRT when it could be a lot of other shit

Just because he’s “in range” for total t and free t, that doesn’t mean his symptoms aren’t caused by low t. With his history of AAS use, what would it hurt to try trt at this point? What’s the downside? He has classic low t symptoms. Certainly saying that he doesn’t need trt just because his numbers are “in range” shows extreme
Ignorance. It’s simply a fact that some people need more t than others, to alleviate symptoms.

 

[A.B]

He needs more blood work to disprove other avenues. I have seen time and time again people off cycle and on cycle develope prolactin issues and not even running a progestin steroid. What if its that and the problem can be solved by caber.

 

[A.B]

If the blooods show other wise by all means explore a trt route but again- lots of ways to look into those symptoms other then TT And FT

 

[Gossamer]

He needs more blood work to disprove other avenues. I have seen time and time again people off cycle and on cycle develope prolactin issues and not even running a progestin steroid. What if its that and the problem can be solved by caber.

So,

You’d recommend a drug rather than a bio identical hormone?

 

[A.B]

I would find out the route of the problem and go from there. Exogenous testosterone isnt the answer for thyroid, prolactin, DHEA issues etc. All can effect libido and energy. Blood work is easy.

 

[Gossamer]

I would find out the route of the problem and go from there. Exogenous testosterone isnt the answer for thyroid, prolactin, DHEA issues etc. All can effect libido and energy. Blood work is easy.

Still a lot safer to trt testosterone, than caber, don’t you think?

Drugs are poison. Try to avoid them altogether. At least you’re open to him trying trt, unlike Megatron28, who dismisses trt altogether.

 

[Megatron28]

Still a lot safer to trt testosterone, than caber, don***8217;t you think?

Drugs are poison. Try to avoid them altogether. At least you***8217;re open to him trying trt, unlike Megatron28, who dismisses trt altogether.

LOL. You are really stuck on this one aren't you! Why do you want him to inject his testosterone so badly? His body is producing enough on it's own to put him at 534ng/dl. Is testosterone from a vial somehow superior to the testosterone your body produces naturally? Why shut down his HPTA so he can get right back to where he started? Why go to all that trouble and cost to be essentially at the same place?

Do you own stock in the big pharma companies? Just because TRT helped you doesn't make it a panacea for every health issue. Feeling depressed? Try some Testosterone! Elbow hurt? Try some T. Got the sniffles? You need a T injection!

P.S. News flash. Drugs can save lives. You're welcome to pass on taking things like antibiotics and other life saving drugs but you shouldn't try to cast them all as poison. Cabergoline and other dopamine agonists can be very beneficial for some people.

 

[casanovaaa]

Do you own stock in the big pharma companies? Just because TRT helped you doesn't make it a panacea for every health issue. Feeling depressed? Try some Testosterone! Elbow hurt? Try some T. Got the sniffles? You need a T injection!

so true there boss. doctors today just want to push pharmacology on their patients who put their trust in them.
pushing pills now is the new norm for any illness these days. instead of curing the root cause of an illness they just push a pill that will mask the symptons and ease the pain instead of curing the pain.

these doctors will have to answer one day to their Maker for sure. they all take a oath that says, DO NO HARM, that is serious and they will be judge accordingly.

 

[Gossamer]

Megatron28 wrote:
“LOL. You are really stuck on this one aren't you! Why do you want him to inject his testosterone so badly? His body is producing enough on it's own to put him at 534ng/dl. Is testosterone from a vial somehow superior to the testosterone your body produces naturally? Why shut down his HPTA so he can get right back to where he started? Why go to all that trouble and cost to be essentially at the same place?”


I already responded to this on the first page of this thread. If you’re not going to read my posts, why respond? You come across as some kind of expert on this forum, but you can’t grasp the simple fact that some people need more T to relieve symptoms. If he is one of those who needs more, because he is experiencing low t symptoms with a total t at 534, then he’d require enough t to bring his total t higher than 534. It’s not rocket surgery.

Megatron28 wrote:
“Do you own stock in the big pharma companies? Just because TRT helped you doesn't make it a panacea for every health issue. Feeling depressed? Try some Testosterone! Elbow hurt? Try some T. Got the sniffles? You need a T injection!”

Are you really this ignorant? Testosterone is a bio identical HORMONE! It’s not a big money making synthetic drug. I said if his symptoms are from Low T, not sniffles and elbow pain. And just to be clear, AGAIN, someone can have low t symptoms even if he has total t of 534.

Why not try actually responding to what I say, instead of making up straw man arguments that I never said, and shooting them down? You seem reasonably intelligent. Stick to what I actually say, and respond to it. And leave out arguments that I never made.

 

[Gossamer]

so true there boss. doctors today just want to push pharmacology on their patients who put their trust in them.
pushing pills now is the new norm for any illness these days. instead of curing the root cause of an illness they just push a pill that will mask the symptons and ease the pain instead of curing the pain.

these doctors will have to answer one day to their Maker for sure. they all take a oath that says, DO NO HARM, that is serious and they will be judge accordingly.

I’m talking about testosterone, which is a bio identical hormone. I’m not talking about synthetic drugs.

 

[Megatron28]

Megatron28 wrote:
“LOL. You are really stuck on this one aren't you! Why do you want him to inject his testosterone so badly? His body is producing enough on it's own to put him at 534ng/dl. Is testosterone from a vial somehow superior to the testosterone your body produces naturally? Why shut down his HPTA so he can get right back to where he started? Why go to all that trouble and cost to be essentially at the same place?”


I already responded to this on the first page of this thread. If you’re not going to read my posts, why respond? You come across as some kind of expert on this forum, but you can’t grasp the simple fact that some people need more T to relieve symptoms. If he is one of those who needs more, because he is experiencing low t symptoms with a total t at 534, then he’d require enough t to bring his total t higher than 534. It’s not rocket surgery.

Megatron28 wrote:
“Do you own stock in the big pharma companies? Just because TRT helped you doesn't make it a panacea for every health issue. Feeling depressed? Try some Testosterone! Elbow hurt? Try some T. Got the sniffles? You need a T injection!”

Are you really this ignorant? Testosterone is a bio identical HORMONE! It’s not a big money making synthetic drug. I said if his symptoms are from Low T, not sniffles and elbow pain. And just to be clear, AGAIN, someone can have low t symptoms even if he has total t of 534.

Why not try actually responding to what I say, instead of making up straw man arguments that I never said, and shooting them down? You seem reasonably intelligent. Stick to what I actually say, and respond to it. And leave out arguments that I never made.

Because what you keep failing to recognize and acknowledge is that many ailments can have the exact same symptoms that one experiences with hypogonadism. We have hard evidence in his blood work that hypogonadism is LIKELY not the cause of his symptoms. Yes you are right that his natural testosterone may have previously been at 1000ng/dl and now it is 534; but that would make him an outlier. Statistically it isn't likely the case here. I think he would be better served to look into the other more likely causes of his symptoms. You want to throw TRT at him without even suggesting he get a sleep study done for example or run additional blood work to explore other possibilities.

You are also failing to recognize that very few doctors will prescribe someone TRT without a hypogonadism diagnosis. The OP will not be given a hypogonadism diagnosis given his blood work results.

I tried letting this thread and squabble die but you keep resurrecting it.

 

[Gossamer]

Megatron28 wrote:
“Because what you keep failing to recognize and acknowledge is that many ailments can have the exact same symptoms that one experiences with hypogonadism. We have hard evidence in his blood work that hypogonadism is LIKELY not the cause of his symptoms.”

No, I do not fail to realize and acknowledge that other ailments have similar symptoms to low t. He used steroids, he has fatigue, low libido, and he works out regularly and cannot put on muscle. That’s classic low t symptoms, not sleep apnea. What exactly is the “hard evidence” in his bloodwork that his symptoms aren’t caused by low t?

Megatron28 wrote:
“You are also failing to recognize that very few doctors will prescribe someone TRT without a hypogonadism diagnosis. The OP will not be given a hypogonadism diagnosis given his blood work results.”

No!!! Stop saying that I fail to recognize...I know many doctors do the same thing you’re doing. They don’t treat symptoms, they try to get patients to a certain TT level. And I do know someone who can help treat him with his levels, if he is having low t symptoms.

ToDie4Test,

If you want to talk to a reputable doctor who will find out if your symptoms are caused by low t, and will treat you for low t, even with levels “in range”, let me know. I’ll get you in contact with someone.

Megatron28 wrote:
“I tried letting this thread and squabble die but you keep resurrecting it.”

Then stop making straw man arguments. Stop putting words in my mouth. Stop assuming that I fail to recognize something that you have no idea if I fail to recognize it.

It comes down to this simple fact:

If the OP is having low t symptoms, then I can put him in touch with someone who will help him.

 

[Megatron28]

What exactly is the “hard evidence” in his bloodwork that his symptoms aren’t caused by low t?

Total Testosterone: 534.9 ng/dL
Free Testosterone: 14.2 pg/mL
FSH: 5.3 mIU/mL
LH: 6.3 mIU/mL
TSH: 1.76 uIUmL
SHGB: 32.3 nmol

TT is solid. LH is good. FSH is good. All of it looks good. There is nothing there pointing towards hypogonadism. What in the blood work is indicating hypogonadism when you look at it?

 

[Gossamer]

Total Testosterone: 534.9 ng/dL
Free Testosterone: 14.2 pg/mL
FSH: 5.3 mIU/mL
LH: 6.3 mIU/mL
TSH: 1.76 uIUmL
SHGB: 32.3 nmol

TT is solid. LH is good. FSH is good. All of it looks good. There is nothing there pointing towards hypogonadism. What in the blood work is indicating hypogonadism when you look at it?

I never said that the bloodwork pointed towards hypogonadism. I said he had low t SYMPTOMS. When bloodwork shows a TT of 170, like I had before going on trt, it’s easy to point to bloodwork showing hypogonadism. But what do you do if someone has tt of 535, yet has a history of steroid use, and has low t symptoms? If other avenues fail, do you just tell the poor guy he’s not having low t symptoms? “Sir, your bloodwork shows a tt of 535, within the normal range. I’m sorry, there’s no way you could possibly have hypogonadism, because we don’t treat symptoms here, we strive for bloodwork in the normal range.”

See how insane that is?

 

[Megatron28]

I never said that the bloodwork pointed towards hypogonadism. I said he had low t SYMPTOMS. When bloodwork shows a TT of 170, like I had before going on trt, it***8217;s easy to point to bloodwork showing hypogonadism. But what do you do if someone has tt of 535, yet has a history of steroid use, and has low t symptoms? If other avenues fail, do you just tell the poor guy he***8217;s not having low t symptoms? ***8220;Sir, your bloodwork shows a tt of 535, within the normal range. I***8217;m sorry, there***8217;s no way you could possibly have hypogonadism, because we don***8217;t treat symptoms here, we strive for bloodwork in the normal range.***8221;

See how insane that is?

What I think you do is tell the person that you have tested for hypogonadism but it turns out that is not the cause of his symptoms. He is not hypogonadal. Then you suggest looking for what else might be causing those symptoms so the person can begin to feel better. You could even recommend continuing to monitor his hormone levels to see if anything changes.

It would be like if the person comes in with severe pain in his arm after a fall, inflammation and has a low grade fever. It hurts to move his arm. He is experiencing symptoms of a bone fracture. So you do an x-ray but it shows there actually isn't a fracture. Do you still go ahead and put a cast on his arm even though there isn't a fracture because he has those symptoms? Or do you tell him something else is causing those symptoms and discuss what treatments options exist?

How many people go to the ER absolutely certain they are having a heart attack? Tests are run and it turns out their heart is perfectly fine. But what about all those symptoms that were being experienced? Do you still go ahead and treat the person for a heart attack? Or do explore other possible causes like panic attacks? What would better serve the patient? Treating symptoms or treating the root cause of those symptoms?