Late 20's..I really need help.

O

Optic31

New member
Hi everyone. It is my first post here. Great platform..very helpful..I am looking for some help as well.

My story..
Late 20's male..history of alcohool abuse for the last 2 and a half years..mostly beer( i know, is the worst..just found out...)
Stopped drinking 7 months ago when I realised I had issues with erection and basically a full blown candida overgrowth. (Prostate involved and right kidney) feeling much better on a low carb diet. Unfortunatelly I had some testicular shrinkage (ultrasound showed 13cc and 17cc) and with that camed what is considered low normal testosterone values. TT= 520ng/dl low E2 <17. ( joint pain, bone pain..):slightly elevated LH and FSH. Liver enzymes are fine 24 and 25 If I remember well.

My hair is now very dry not really growing much, morning erections are rare...lost a lot of weight..I am really skinny..

Considering that I stopped growing and that my levels shown 520 on 2 different morning blood tests..I imagine there is not much to recover ( considering the testicular shrinkage as well)

My question is...should I go on TRT..my point is..will the benefits outweight the risks?

My therapist says to go with it..either way his main concern is my addictive behaviour...if is not drinking or smoking ...then is running or work..etc..I was a marathoner till I got injured. Worked for 3 days straight till my kidneys shut down and I could not urinate.. (I know...weird childish behaviour...I am working on that with him) his main concern is that even if I feel better on therapy I will most likely kill myself with overwork..I am learning alot about addictions and how to control them...since I really don't want to abuse Trt if I start...

My post my sound confusing as my thoughts are lately..I am not looking for approval on what to do but more of a personal opinion and advice if you encountered similar cases in the past..friends..etc. I can get trt with necessary Hcg, hmg and A.I thru private route..I have 2 clinics with doctor prescribed medicine..that is my last concern (as long as they get paid..they are happy) Is my health that I am worried about..

We all make mistakes and I guess we have to stay strong..should I live my next 30 years with the risks associated with my simptoms or try to get a better life and hope for improvement on TRT( I am well aware is not a magic bulett and about all the problems might come along the way..blood donations..change doctors..etc..)

If you made it this far I would like to thank you and I am looking forward for your oppinion. Please excuse my broken english.
 
With TT = 520 ng/dL, you do not have low T. TRT will probably do little or nothing for you. Look elsewhere to improve your health.
 
SO late 20's what does that mean? How old are you?

I am a recovering alcohol and mainly drug addict. Yep how's 46 yrs sound. Got clean n sober 6 years ago at age 60. Seems you need to just go back the drawing board and work with your addiction and recovery of that. Much too soon for your body and your mind to get involved in the use of AAS.

Eat right, go to the gym ( easy doses it) go to group/ meetings and stay sober so you can get healthier. Don't even think about AAS for years to come.


OH, PS: what is wrong with 520 ng/dL??
 
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Kill the yeast infection and keep living the straight and narrow. I suspect you're feeling the effects of low estradiol, which isn't super common given your total testosterone, but yeast in the gut can really do some nasty things to us.

My advice, as an opiate addict (prescription pain killers for several years) is to solve your behavioral issues and incorporate healthy habits instead of triggering habits. I truly believe that you'll recover in due time, and would suggest keeping on top of blood work for the next year or so if LH was indeed elevated.

Mike gave great advice, and is a perfect example of showing how it's never too late to improve ourselves. ;)

My 0.02c :)
 
jumping from alcohol to hormones is not a good step forward. It's a good way to go into hormone addiction and AAS eats up more money than alcohol, with a lot of complications to boot for your heart, kidneys, liver and other organs
 
Hi guys, thank you so much for the quick reply. I agree with what you guys said, but again, it has been a year now trying to do sport, proper diet..everytime my muscles and bones hurt. I know 520 sounds normal. I know the size of my testicles previous to my alcoholism and the atrophy it got to now...since is been almost a year I imagine at this point is irreversable. Will only HCG help a little or it just wears off once I stop it? I have no problem in waiting. I'm 27 now..I don't see how my levels will go higher but only down from here. As I said, even my hair is not growing, it is very dry...and I am 185cm tall, 59 kg. I eat more than all my colleagues at work and they all look at me like why am I still so skinny. Call it metabolism since I've always been skinny...but never like this..I am actually scared. How long should I wait then? 2-3, 5, 10 years? My question was more to understand if I am at a higher risk living like this with the simtomps that I have or if there is any benefit in treatment? Thanks again
 
I would like to add to my earlier reply..

@ Virginian..I would like to know why trt won't help? I know that my body used to regulate the temperature much better, before my drinking problem. Every morning now it feels like I hadn't slept the night before. Is like an ongoing burnout.
@ Oldmuscle Mike, thank you for understanding. I appreciate your reply. Obviously nothing wrong with 520 on a piece of paper. Who is to say that maybe the medical community decides that between ages 19 and 40 a value of 500 is low? I red about cases with Klinefelter syndrome with values around 400. Difference is that they were born with that value and there are used to it and yet some doctors decide to treat them

@Onk, I agree...I am scared as hell...either way I don't think it will finish well for me. I am weaker every day..it is more a decision if I still want to live or not..after 2-3pm I am completely drained of energy. I am like this for the last 6 months or more. I don't really know what to do anymore...
 
IMOP
I don't want to make light of your situation at all. I feel bad for you. However I'm still not sold on you having the problem with your Testosterone. I considered what you said about your TT level being ok on paper and I have found many things that as we say " oh sounds good on paper, right" but your problems are of many.

I have to tell you my detox was over the normal top. Strapped down for almost 5 days and then I was unable to walk when I got out of bed on the 7 th. I was in a wheel chair. Truth ! The reason they said was my body just didn't know how to operate without the additives I was ingesting for so many years and to top it off the unbelievable doses. So the detox was such a strain on my body with the spasms , diarrhea, vomiting, convulsions the stress and strain for 5 days under restraints etc...

So after almost 2 weeks when at home I still wasn't walking on my own. My wife and a friend would help me to the car and they would strap me in. I couldn't write or focus on reading or use my computer for close to 30 days.
AND my speech was fuvcked up for months. I mean really fuvcked up. Talking and keeping focus on the sentences was a task.

I slowly came back and I tell you I was still hurting 6 months later. It really took 7-8 months for me to feel close to normal for me.

There is much to investigate and I don't have a clue, sorry BUT I still think you have screwed so many organs up with the alcohol it's gonna take more time. I said easy dose it, shit I hate some of the AA sayings. Yea so easy right. But it takes more time then you and many others know. I think your energy will return and also with more recovering ailments .

I gotta apologize to the forum for another of Mike's sagas and long stories but they are true.

So keep on looking and I'm sorry I can't help .That's all I got man.

Hang in there and Good Luck
 
Quit apologizing Mike. I enjoy reading your posts, and you have much wisdom to share. If someone is talking shit to you, they've got a problem with themselves - and many others that feel as I do. ;)

Optic: You are dangerously starting to sound like you're trying to solve all the problems in your life with a shot; sorry brother, but that's not going to happen.

I had to learn how to do everything all from scratch again when I finally came out from under my problem with addiction. As Mike said, that shit is not easy, and they really mess with your body.

I had a testosterone for ten years at 120ng/dL without knowing it. Believe me when I say that you are in a much better place, and now that you know that hormone tests exist, can keep tabs on it. Get a sleep study, I bet you have apnea. ;)
 
I would look to changes in diet and lifestyle. A 520 test level should be plenty to feel good on, and with improved health that number may continue to go up.
 
Thank you very much guys.

@ Mike I really appreciate your comment and your help. It sounds like you have been thru a lot and I wish you well also. I was thinking this afternoon, again in a very depressed state of mind about the risks of TRT anyway and I reached maybe a stupid, but at least a conclusion. I was thinking that without the treatment I am at certain risks as I know very well my body and my lack of energy now. With the therapy I am also at risks.

No matter what I choose to do, if something bad happends I will say it is because I did the treatment or the other way around. Either way, it is probably the best to keep living as it is. I know issues will come, and I certainly don't like the idea to be linked to a neddle for the rest of my life. I might end up on insulin if I develop diabetes in 10 years time, who knows? I might have a stroke if I do TRT...One thing is for certain, I did shortened my life, and as much as I would like to go back, I am afraid that I have to continue living with what I have.
It is unfortunate to realise at a fairly young age that money is fake and our life is an illusion or a game, in front of our own health. We appreciate it when we don't have it...like many other things I guess...

@ Halfwit. Thank you for the reply I will keep tabs on it, on the test levels i mean...but again, who is to say when or if I need it? A doctor? if so? which one? Where do I establish that line when I must do something about it? If I would not have ruined my gonads with alcohol I would have probably accepted the lack of energy with the ideea of getting older, but not beeing able to walk for 2km without having joint pain is a different issue. Back pain is a common thing now. I had a scan and it does show a small scoliosis. I know that doing TRT and having to follow it every 6 months, dialing it in?(as they say) and all the complications that come after involing thyroid, prostate or god knows what else...
I am fine with accepting the situation, even though it took quite a while and it is still a challange, every morning...I have a friend who recently told me that He was misdiagnosed with a thyroid problem and he got medicine for that for many years, when in fact he had a prlactinoma growing for the last decade...he is treating it now with caber and he is unlucky that it is placed in such a position that it can not be removed trhu the nose. Bad things happen, part of life, but I can not help to think that I have somewhat an advantage to know what is causing my problems and that I might, with proper help, at least bring myself to a better situation.
I know that you said you abused opiates, did your levels ever returned to a higher level or are you on TRT? sorry If I don't know your general history...I am new to this forum...

@ cbburrr, well that number definetly could be worse, It is unfortunate that it did not go up, as I mentioned I did several blood tests, and I will continue to do so..Testicular atrophy is in most cases irreversible...I did plenty of changes in diet and lifestyle, I guess I'll have to get used to it..not much really that I can do, except TRT, which will probably just cause an extra stress and will make my life revolve only around that...
 
I hadnt heard about testicular atrophy being irreversible.
Mine shrunk up quite a bit and then came back with HCG.

being in your 20's you have lots of time to let things recover, and compared to many guys your test level is pretty good. It may be below average, but still well within the normal range.
 
It could be very well possible that TRT is in your future, but I have to agree with halfwit and Mike on this one. It's truly worth watching your blood work for a bit and seeing if a healthy diet and workout routine will help everything balance out. There is also the option of running HCG monotherapy for a bit to puff your nuts back up, it could also raise your e2 a bit, but again that would require a proper protocol.

It's very likely some of your symptoms are still more related to early recovery and post acute withdrawals (PAWS), not saying you haven't gotten some good clean time or anything just saying these addictions tend to beat us down severely.

I too was an alcoholic and an opiate addict, worst of the worst. And well I had to opt for TRT at 30 my TT was 149ng/dl. TRT has done great for me but it's not without its work either.

I think focusing on sobriety and health right now might be the best option, if you truly feel TRT is for you then only you will know that.
 
Optic31 said:
Thank you very much guys.

@ Mike I really appreciate your comment and your help. It sounds like you have been thru a lot and I wish you well also. I was thinking this afternoon, again in a very depressed state of mind about the risks of TRT anyway and I reached maybe a stupid, but at least a conclusion. I was thinking that without the treatment I am at certain risks as I know very well my body and my lack of energy now. With the therapy I am also at risks.

No matter what I choose to do, if something bad happends I will say it is because I did the treatment or the other way around. Either way, it is probably the best to keep living as it is. I know issues will come, and I certainly don't like the idea to be linked to a neddle for the rest of my life. I might end up on insulin if I develop diabetes in 10 years time, who knows? I might have a stroke if I do TRT...One thing is for certain, I did shortened my life, and as much as I would like to go back, I am afraid that I have to continue living with what I have.
It is unfortunate to realise at a fairly young age that money is fake and our life is an illusion or a game, in front of our own health. We appreciate it when we don't have it...like many other things I guess...

@ Halfwit. Thank you for the reply I will keep tabs on it, on the test levels i mean...but again, who is to say when or if I need it? A doctor? if so? which one? Where do I establish that line when I must do something about it? If I would not have ruined my gonads with alcohol I would have probably accepted the lack of energy with the ideea of getting older, but not beeing able to walk for 2km without having joint pain is a different issue. Back pain is a common thing now. I had a scan and it does show a small scoliosis. I know that doing TRT and having to follow it every 6 months, dialing it in?(as they say) and all the complications that come after involing thyroid, prostate or god knows what else...
I am fine with accepting the situation, even though it took quite a while and it is still a challange, every morning...I have a friend who recently told me that He was misdiagnosed with a thyroid problem and he got medicine for that for many years, when in fact he had a prlactinoma growing for the last decade...he is treating it now with caber and he is unlucky that it is placed in such a position that it can not be removed trhu the nose. Bad things happen, part of life, but I can not help to think that I have somewhat an advantage to know what is causing my problems and that I might, with proper help, at least bring myself to a better situation.
I know that you said you abused opiates, did your levels ever returned to a higher level or are you on TRT? sorry If I don't know your general history...I am new to this forum...

@ cbburrr, well that number definetly could be worse, It is unfortunate that it did not go up, as I mentioned I did several blood tests, and I will continue to do so..Testicular atrophy is in most cases irreversible...I did plenty of changes in diet and lifestyle, I guess I'll have to get used to it..not much really that I can do, except TRT, which will probably just cause an extra stress and will make my life revolve only around that...
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, opiates can destroy the leydig cells of the testes, which renders recovery impossible. It doesn't happen to everyone, but in my case, I had a natural test value of 120ng/dL - even with a rather high LH signal from my pituitary gland.

Here's how I see it; YOU will know it's time to throw in the towel when you have fixed everything possible in your lifestyle that is contributing to less than stellar health.

Low T did give me diabetes and high blood pressure, as well as being on all sorts of antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds. I was VERY unhealthy for many years, and it took the birth of my daughter to snap me out of it.

I started walking and weight training, I cleaned up my diet drastically, stopped all drinking and drug use. I investigated every possible means of getting better, but would often end up crying in a fit of rage as nothing was working. This was before I FINALLY discovered the role testosterone has - and honestly thought a cycle would fix things (like many do). I convinced my doctor to give me a hormone panel after writing down all the symptoms and potential treatments. I came armed to the teeth because every doc in the past would say it was in my head, or that I was fine. I figured that after a year of literally NOTHING working to push for TRT.

I was an athlete in my youth, and once I noticed that I couldn't even come close to that, the "risks" of TRT were totally worth it. However, I did give it a year, and read EVERYTHING I could. I was literally a shut in, and would panic just walking out the door - so the decision was much easier for me.

Your situation is a bit less cut and dry; you have a functional testosterone level (now), and it's entirely possible that fixing those lifestyle choices may bring you back. I would definitely look into sleep apnea as that can give many of the symptoms you have, and if once your body starts to heal things get better - you don't have to marry the needle. However, if things don't improve (with a serious effort), TRT is a God send.

I'm kind of all over the place with my reply, but hopefully it makes some sense lol. :wiggle:
 
@gruntwerk

Thanks for the reply. It really resonates with my situation, and I am sorry to hear that you have been thru that. Somehow it makes me feel a bit better than somebody understands me. I know it sounds weird but you will probably get what I mean. Well it has been half a year or so when I did tried many things, and every time as was out with some colleagues for dinner, or just in the park, I always felt so bad that I said, I will just get on TRT beause I can not continue like this, and I keep delaying it. Believe it or not I have medicine and seringes at home and I still haven't started it.

In a weird way I somehow like the idea of feeling bad, I see it like a punishment (I know it is stupid) but in a way it keeps me away from doing anything in excess. Beeing in this phase made me understant alot about addiction and pretty much about how stupid our brain is. Going back to moderation in doing even healthy things will be difficult.

Alcohol in moderation will be impossible, since it took me a while to see that I was an alcoholic. Maybe not a hardcore one, since I notice my situation getting worse day by day and drinking 2-3 beers EOD did not sound like a problem. The big issue started last year in november when my ex left me and I started binge drinking for almost 2 weeks and then new years eve and so on. Now almost a year later when I see that my hair literly stopped growing, my performance at work is noticeable worse, even though my colleagues are understanging (probably since I provided like hell for them and the company the previous year), I am quite scared of what the future holds.

I am literaly making plans and writing post-its around the house to be remembered every day on what to do (since my short term memory is in the crapper) but also I try to plan this really well so I can stay on track for the rest of my life...it is so easy to fall back in doing things to excess...It is a curse remembering all this bad things that I've done to my health (It is strange how low t improves your long term memory) and I am afraid if that gets improved with TRT I will completely forget about all this things. (as I said, the brain is stupid)

I hope it doesn't sound condescendig or anytihing, but here is one of the many videos I watched and found extremely helpful. https://youtube.com/watch?v=G5ZYV-IMIUU


@ Halfwit

Thanky you for the reply. It is not all over the place and it is very helpful.
You must agree that during that year of training and doing effort on low testosterone you probably agravatted your situation? I am just speaking of myself, since I had stopped drinking, I haven't moved a finger on doing sports for the first weeks. I was so naive to think that running will do me better, when I started to run hoping that my depression will go away, and every time I was pushing it even more, till my knees were hurting and my heart was in pain, by the time I got home after a day running thru the rain and lifting weights, got an infection in the epydemititis, wich I still suspect it might be a yeast from my prostate, wich eventually went away on itself. The thing is that it took me almost 2 weeks to detox, I was on a full ketogenic/atkins diet and managed to get it all out. I still think that I have it in my prostate, beacause when I have a coffee I feel the simptoms coming back after a few hours. I red so much about candida and testosterone, and any infection in general. There are just a few articles stating that testosterone fights candida, or it keeps candida away, I'm guessing that is why more women get it..maybe I'm wrong.

I used to do alot of cycling as wel (bicycle I mean) and it made me realise that cardio is probably one of the worst exercises for testosterone, it makes me sound so stupid not knowing that earlier...All this idiotic things about runners high..it is so stupid, and it is actually the body telling us that we need to stop running, we are depleting our energy, is not good for the health, reason why is addictive, I was doing that by running, by cycling and even a big fall from the bycicle and smashing my head to the pavement, braking my arm, did not raised a warning side that I am overdoing it. I almost lost an eye in that incident.

Now I train, a little, some pushups here and there, some light weight training and my therapist suggestted swiming....I am doing new blood work next week and if the results are the same as half a year ago, I might need to make a decision.

Thanks again guys for the replies. It is also good to hear that TRT helped you, as I hear so many stories about not working or maybe is just people who have to high expectations from it. Once you experience low testosterone, you are just happy to get a bit of your strength back...It is most of the times our fault that we are in this situation in the first place and we should appreciate all the help that we can get...

sorry for the long posts...
 
Actually, my issue had very little resulting impact from exercise as I had been done with the drugs for many years, so the damage was done. It just made me think that it would be impossible to make any changes to my body.

Interesting that you have had an infection with the prostate and were a cyclist. My step father had the exact same issue come up from riding horses and biking competitively for many years. His infection made his PSA skyrocket even after he had the majority of his gland removed. I'm not going to pretend that I know much on the subject, but I do remember him saying how he was upset that they wanted to put him back on chemo when it was an infection the entire time. Treat the infection though, they rarely go away on their own.

Cardiovascular exercises aren't bad for testosterone at all. There are a lot of misconceptions about this as people tend to draw conclusions based on experiences, which may have a different cause. This reminds me of the misconception that sex decreases testosterone, so many fighters abstain for some time leading to a fight, for the added aggression. Oddly, science has found the opposite, and it's the lack of post sexual dopamine/oxytocin that makes them grumpy lol. Just don't overdo it obviously. ;)

In the end however, you do have to do what you feel is right. I know a gentleman that had clinically fine levels of testosterone, and he says going on TRT was the best thing he ever did. We're all different, and I know I certainly wouldn't judge you for trying to feel better - I just wouldn't like to see you make a very permanent decision without exploring all other options first. :)
 
I agree...thing is the infection won't go away..since most likely I have calcifications that host the yeast inside..if those are not removed the infection will never go away...as for the PSA..it's at 0.3. Sometimes I just think to leave things as they are..since I have a health insurance and the way to get trt is by traveling to another country...legally I am in normal limits..in my country these start at 240 so it will be a long way to go till they drop so low...in best case they will offer nebido so that will most likely screw me over even worse...I kind of camed to the fact of accepting that it is what it is and probably I will stay like this till other complications will occur...I am not really afraid of death...I camed close to it a few times...it might be my self destructive behaviour...when I am like this at least I don't drink and do my job for 8-9 hours a day and that's it...I have a BMI of 17...it will only go lower..pills for athritis in the future and what ever else will come...many people suffered for longer period of times with worse pain..I will handle things as they are...I already isolated myself since nobody around me understands what I'm going thru..I am looking forward to get old since I already feel old..
 
Ok guys, so..sorry If I am bitching again...got new blood work since I honestly don't know how much longer I can make it thru this...not overreacting but I have afternoons when I do feel like I am dying.
Now...for the blood work...

URIC ACID 77 on a scale 30-70 mg/l...slightly elevated..
UREA 0.57 on a scale of 0.15-0.55 g/l

GOT(AST) 19 on a 5-55 scale
GPT(ALT) 20 on a 5-50 scale
GAMMA/GT 12 on a 4-49 scale

PROLACTIN 15.53 on a 2-17
TOTAL T 845 on a 241-827 scale...that means in went up from 520 to 845 in the last couple of months....
DHEA 494.9 mcg/dl on a 35-560 scale
FSH and LH at 4.07 and 4.25
PSA at 0.49 on a 0-4

HDL-COLESTEROL 0.93 g/l considered high if above 0.6
TRIGLICERIDES LDL and TOTAL COLESTEROL are normal..
IRON 1180mcg/l on a 480-1800 range

the not so fun part is that my free T is now 4.9 pg/ml on a scale of 8.9-42.5 for the 20-39 years old range (they actually have these divided on ages) I know in

which the doctor refered to as beeing really low.and it does make some sense https://sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150517071926.htm
I know in japan they treat if you have low free T, irelevant from the TT...so it's a matter of perspective at the end...where you live...etc...that's why I want to solve my simptoms and not some numbers.

Now...thing is..I got prescription for cypionate, it is spanish so it's called TESTEX Prolongatum 250mg/2ml which the doctor said to use once every 8 days...
I refused to do the first injection there since I had to reconsider and hopefully get some adivice from you guys as well...

The way I see it the doctor has liitle or no idea of what is he doing, and I imagine that he might lose his license soon or this sort of joke clinic will shut down in the future...I don't really want to go into detail in describing why I think this and I might be wrong to judge a guy with more diplomas and education behind than me (I am being sarcastic...)

The thing is, I have treatment for 3 months..I can split the dosage to 125mg per week and try out for 3 months and see how it goes...since I imagine that 250mg per week is somwhere in AAS field.

BUT, my biggest concern is now..thinking that I did not had SHBG tested, I am thinking that there might be an issue there why my free level of T is low...I will get that checked in the next days and come back to you guys with the results.

the thing is..TESTICULAR ATROPHY...is still there...I am not beeing obsessive or anything...we all know our own bodies....so no point in explaining that further....my question is..will it be actually possible that there is another reason behind my free T beeing so low...the problem beeing somwhere else? My hair is completely dry and I think in the last 6 months it did not grew more than 2cm...since MARCH basically I lost all it's greasyness and it's completely dry and barely growing...the rest of the simptoms are also there and I am falling apart...

Now, as I always said..I am looking to feel better, have normal hair growth, energy..and basically not beeing a zombie 24/7....I have all the medicine and medical prescription from an endocrinologist (like that makes a difference) at the end of the day is my health and I need to try something. I would like to know if I go for 3 months on a 125mg per week...will that completely shut me down? is it worth the risk to see if it at least works?

As you probably imagined, I had to travel to get the medication and prescription for this..If I try to go to another doctor they will say..you have a TT of 845...what more do you want? ignoring the free T.

another thing is...I am pretty sure that without any kind of treatment things will not resolve..it's been like this for almost a year...I just don't want to start the wrong treatment and regret it later...

Sorry guys for the long post and bad english...You guys provided me great advice till now and I hope you get a bit of more time to help me out. Thanks!
 
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