Leaning out without losing mass?

[SPAthlete]

I may be a unique newbie here.

I'm 40. I have no interest in getting HUGE. I'm already big enough at 6'4" and 240 lbs (@10% BF).

When I was 30, I was 235, and down around 5-6%. I just want that back. Likely add 10 lbs of muscle, drop 10 lbs of fat, and maintain. 265-270 just isn't me. I'm a speed/power athlete, and additional bulk is a negative. I'm not interested in winning any contests.

I've been weight training for 20 years. I peaked in mass (240-245) 10 years ago, so this isn't a get-big-quick plan.

I know a lot of people are on a mild HGH regimen for fat loss, but it's out of my price range. I also hear that "mild" test dosages will only drop/replace my existing levels, resulting in a net-zero gain.

My nutrition is top notch. I eat 3800-4000 kcal per day, at around 200-250 gr of protein, clean low GI carbs, and monounsaturated fats.

What would the vets recommend?

Thanks a ton

SPA

 

[drewbolic]

gh might be what your looking for.
Start doing some research on peptides there're many with fat burning properties with added benefits.

 

[SPAthlete]

I've looked into it... But it seems to be 4-8 times as expensive as a typical anabolic routine... HGH, IGF-1...

Is a lower dose cycle going to get me milder, but visible, effects with lessened sides? Or is it just replacing my endogenous production?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

A low dose test cycle will allow you to eat small without going catabolic.

 

[SPAthlete]

A low dose test cycle will allow you to eat small without going catabolic.

How low? I'd like to stay around 3000 kcal and just slowly lean out. I've seen Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) dosages as low as .75 mg/wk (Cyp).

I have easy access to Deca or Test. But I don't want to trade a limp dick for muscle mass... LOL

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I would roll with 500 test cause of your size-and 150mg of deca a week to lube the joints.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Everyone talks about deca dick-ive never really had it-maybe a little but i can still get it up. Deca makes me really horny but it takes me forever to bust. I assume this is from an increase in prolactin. Ive never used anything to combat prolactin and ive ran deca up to 700mg a week. I doubt you would notice any deca affects at 200mg or under. except maybe making your joints feel great. this would especially be important IMO on a low fat diet.

 

[RJ]

who is checking your BF%? Walking around at 5% BF is not easily accomplished nor easy to maintain, even with an awesome diet.

and there are a host of GH fragments out there that "supposedly" carry only the fat burning properties of GH without the high price tag. May be an option.

 

[3J]

who is checking your BF%? Walking around at 5% BF is not easily accomplished nor easy to maintain, even with an awesome diet.

yea thats what i was about to say.. its just plain unhealthy to run that low.. bb compers do it for maybe a week or two, but your body WILL NOT stay at that bf for long...

anything under 9% imo is just rediculously unreasonable... ur body needs a little bitta fat to be healthy...

actually i think 12% is the best place to sit

 

[RJ]

yea thats what i was about to say.. its just plain unhealthy to run that low.. bb compers do it for maybe a week or two, but your body WILL NOT stay at that bf for long...

anything under 9% imo is just rediculously unreasonable... ur body needs a little bitta fat to be healthy...

actually i think 12% is the best place to sit

me 2. 11-12% is where i feel great and start to look really lean.

 

[SPAthlete]

me 2. 11-12% is where i feel great and start to look really lean.

I was 7 point caliper tested at 5-6% age 30. Full 6-pack and striated pecs without serious dieting. I'm an ectomorph, with 50 lbs of muscle on top. I was 6'3" and 190 in college. Now 6'4" and 240lbs hormone-free to this point. It's not uncommon for athletes to run 4-6% all the time. Most of the NBA is in the 4-6% range.

I've drifted up to a barely-there 2-pack for abs with a little left over above my belt-line. You cannot pinch 5mm on my biceps or thighs. My avatar is me at 240 and 10%.

On my body, 5% is NOT dangerously low.

SPA

 

[3J]

I was 7 point caliper tested at 5-6% age 30. Full 6-pack and striated pecs without serious dieting. I'm an ectomorph, with 50 lbs of muscle on top. I was 6'3" and 190 in college. Now 6'4" and 240lbs hormone-free to this point. It's not uncommon for athletes to run 4-6% all the time. Most of the NBA is in the 4-6% range.

I've drifted up to a barely-there 2-pack for abs with a little left over above my belt-line. You cannot pinch 5mm on my biceps or thighs.

On my body, 5% is NOT dangerously low.

SPA

so ur not at 5% right now??

 

[3J]

there we go.. im guessing ur avi is current?? ur at 12-14%... i dunno what alll this 5% talk is about..

and NO being 5% for a prolonged period of time is NEVER HEALTHY.. i dont care how good ur genetics are or how much of a bad ass u think u are..

empirical science will prove u wrong everytime

 

[Ozzy727]

I've looked into it... But it seems to be 4-8 times as expensive as a typical anabolic routine... HGH, IGF-1...

Is a lower dose cycle going to get me milder, but visible, effects with lessened sides? Or is it just replacing my endogenous production?

I'm not gonna break any rules here but....This isn't totally true bro. It's xmas and alot of people are almost giving this stuff away. Prices are pretty low , just depends where you go. I've seen it for....ahh , don't think I'm allowed to say prices.

Peace Oz

 

[glubgawd]

Can't believe nobody has mentioned this yet....LIPO!!!!!


(There is 0 seriousness in this post)

 

[SPAthlete]

there we go.. im guessing ur avi is current?? ur at 12-14%... i dunno what alll this 5% talk is about..

and NO being 5% for a prolonged period of time is NEVER HEALTHY.. i dont care how good ur genetics are or how much of a bad ass u think u are..

empirical science will prove u wrong everytime

No insult, 3J, but no, I'm not at 5% now. Yes my Avi is current as of last week. No, I don't think I'm a bad-ass. I'm not looking to welcome myself to the forum with a pissing contest, but I'm guessing you're use to looking at/testing 10-12% BF skin-fold thicknesses for guys who have a LOT more muscle mass than I do (proportionally to frame size). You know that %BF drops with an increase in muscle for the same skin-fold thickness. I don't carry a lot of fat, but I'm also not that muscular for my height/frame. My arms, chest, legs, etc are lean, but I can easily pinch more than an inch at my abdominal skin-fold. This is where I've always stored fat. At 6'4" my arms are under 18", and my thighs under 26"... At age 30/5-6% BF (healthy), I had 18" arms and 28" thighs.

I'm an instructor for the NSCA CSCS. I have 16 years in the business, and I've trained and tested professional and college aged athletes for 8-10 of those years. These guys are plenty healthy at single-digit fat levels. All year round...

Is Terrell Owens too lean? Was Jerry Rice too lean at age 40? Is Kobe Bryant too lean? These guys run 6-pack single-digit lean body-fats 24/7/365.

I agree that contest shape is usually only for a week before and a few days after the Saturday night show. I've trained with/along side Lee Priest, Justin Brooks, and others, at World Gym in Venice, and Angel City Fitness, back in 2000-2001. Their contest percentages were closer to 2-3%... That is very unhealthy. 5-9% is not. I know what 5, 10, 15% looks like on ME.

As long as my hormone levels are fine, my nitrogen balance is fine, and my general health is fine, I'm good. I've run most of my life at single digit body-fat levels, and I'm NEVER sick. I train 3-5 days per week, including resistance training, speed work, high intensity intervals, and agility. I don't consider myself a bodybuilder, as much as a "muscular" athlete. Even at the ripe old age of 40. Most of my students are under 25, and I can out-lift, and out-sprint, and out-train the vast majority of them. Some challenge me (testing the teach), and most end up in the bathroom puking. (I repeat, I'm not a bad-ass, but I am a pro-athlete.)

A blanket statement of: "staying at 5% BF is NEVER HEALTHY" is just plain wrong. Even at age 40...

In summary, I'd like to get advice on how/if/how much anabolics/GH can help me get back there to 5-8%, and stay there, and stay sexually potent, IF AT ALL... without opinion of how "healthy" 5-8% body-fat levels are.

I'm sure there are other members interested in experience/advice on this too.

Thanks
SPAthelete

 

[3J]

No insult, 3J, but no, I'm not at 5% now. Yes my Avi is current as of last week. No, I don't think I'm a bad-ass. I'm not looking to welcome myself to the forum with a pissing contest, but I'm guessing you're use to looking at/testing 10-12% BF skin-fold thicknesses for guys who have a LOT more muscle mass than I do (proportionally to frame size). You know that %BF drops with an increase in muscle for the same skin-fold thickness. I don't carry a lot of fat, but I'm also not that muscular for my height/frame. My arms, chest, legs, etc are lean, but I can easily pinch more than an inch at my abdominal skin-fold. This is where I've always stored fat. At 6'4" my arms are under 18", and my thighs under 26"... At age 30/5-6% BF (healthy), I had 18" arms and 28" thighs.

I'm an instructor for the NSCA CSCS. I have 16 years in the business, and I've trained and tested professional and college aged athletes for 8-10 of those years. These guys are plenty healthy at single-digit fat levels. All year round...

Is Terrell Owens too lean? Was Jerry Rice too lean at age 40? Is Kobe Bryant too lean? These guys run 6-pack single-digit lean body-fats 24/7/365.

I agree that contest shape is usually only for a week before and a few days after the Saturday night show. I've trained with/along side Lee Priest, Justin Brooks, and others, at World Gym in Venice, and Angel City Fitness, back in 2000-2001. Their contest percentages were closer to 2-3%... That is very unhealthy. 5-9% is not. I know what 5, 10, 15% looks like on ME.

As long as my hormone levels are fine, my nitrogen balance is fine, and my general health is fine, I'm good. I've run most of my life at single digit body-fat levels, and I'm NEVER sick. I train 3-5 days per week, including resistance training, speed work, high intensity intervals, and agility. I don't consider myself a bodybuilder, as much as a "muscular" athlete. Even at the ripe old age of 40. Most of my students are under 25, and I can out-lift, and out-sprint, and out-train the vast majority of them. Some challenge me (testing the teach), and most end up in the bathroom puking. (I repeat, I'm not a bad-ass, but I am a pro-athlete.)

A blanket statement of: "staying at 5% BF is NEVER HEALTHY" is just plain wrong. Even at age 40...

In summary, I'd like to get advice on how/if/how much anabolics/GH can help me get back there to 5-8%, and stay there, and stay sexually potent, IF AT ALL... without opinion of how "healthy" 5-8% body-fat levels are.

I'm sure there are other members interested in experience/advice on this too.

Thanks
SPAthelete

impressive credentials..

we're gonna have to agree to disagree....

kobe is not at 5% btw...

iv worked with many comp bbers and had them dipped.. fuck calipers.. they've been 5% and that was a very dry lean look... which was also unhealthy on the body.... which is something that should'nt be kept up for long..

if u were to say 8-9% regularly, i wouldn't have disagreed... but 5% usually means ur starving urself.. or working into a comp...


again,its about being healthy...



all the more power to u..

as for aas... yes, it will help u reach those single digits if done correctly..
hgh would be a prime compound for you due to ur age.. it'll keep ya looking young too..

clen,eca, and t3 (which i dont recommend) will also help..

and test will help you put on the muscle.... do it correctly and u wont get overly big.. if that's ur cup of tea and all

 

[3J]

u should also look into anavar... that would be the least invasive approach to your goals..

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I gave you your answer bro-GHRP-6 would be a nice add on.

when running HGH it is also beneficial to run GHRP-6 because HGH will supress your natural GH for up to 18 hours.

 

[SPAthlete]

I guess I still don't have PM privileges...

"I gave you your answer bro-GHRP-6 would be a nice add on.

when running HGH it is also beneficial to run GHRP-6 because HGH will supress your natural GH for up to 18 hours."

How much how often?