Long Term Consequences of Slightly Above Range T

[Brunodk]

I know ideally we want to stay in range while on TRT. But if you have trouble getting dialed in to the top of the range and the choice is 800 or 1400 and your symptoms are better managed at the higher level, what are the long term consequences of being slightly above range? For arguments sake let's say you are able to manage E2 at this level with a reasonable dose of arimidex.

Is there a threshold that significantly reduces the benefits of TRT (1200, 1500, 1800, etc)?

I'm not talking about maintaining super high cycle numbers, but found it difficult to get info on the effects of a slightly elevated level.

 

[Megatron28]

This is a false choice. There is no reason in the world why you could only be at 800 or 1400. You can be anywhere between those two points if you want to.

 

[Brunodk]

This is a false choice. There is no reason in the world why you could only be at 800 or 1400. You can be anywhere between those two points if you want to.

I totally understand that. Strike that and the rest of the question still remains. What are the consequences of being slightly above range? Or is it simply that there is no benefit so why would anyone choose to be there?

Is there an established point at which the long term health consequences of an above range level outweigh the long term consequences of not being on TRT at all? (cardiac issues, lipid issues, diabetes, etc - I don't mean the daily symptoms we all know too well from experience)

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

If you inject even 100mg at once you can be slightly above range. There is no effective way to disperse testosterone exactly as the body does, even HCG will not mimic it. Its a losing battle, its not about what can happen, its about risk reward. Everyone can agree that low testosterone and obesity can leave you prone to a heart attack, the question is are the risks of sub 200mg a week testosterone greater or less than the risk of lowt?

All drugs come with a risk and historically speaking physicians tend to overprescribe all types of medication. It seems to me that men with low testosterone from other things besides age and BMI can alleviate their symptoms with small doses of even 50mg a week. A Canadian study in 2009 showed that sub c 50mg a week testosterone cypionate kept men within range through peak and trough levels. This was a small study its hard to say how great it works without talking with them.

In my experience those with a higher BMI need higher concentrations of testosterone in order to alleviate their symptoms and reduce BMI. Many studies have concluded that the benefits far outweigh the risk.

It seems smaller dosages alleviate depression symptoms but fail to alleviate sexual and physical symptoms of hypogonadism.

There should be justification for any protocol.

Just my 2 cents

 

[jomamma007]

If you inject even 100mg at once you can be slightly above range. There is no effective way to disperse testosterone exactly as the body does, even HCG will not mimic it. Its a losing battle, its not about what can happen, its about risk reward. Everyone can agree that low testosterone and obesity can leave you prone to a heart attack, the question is are the risks of sub 200mg a week testosterone greater or less than the risk of lowt?

All drugs come with a risk and historically speaking physicians tend to overprescribe all types of medication. It seems to me that men with low testosterone from other things besides age and BMI can alleviate their symptoms with small doses of even 50mg a week. A Canadian study in 2009 showed that sub c 50mg a week testosterone cypionate kept men within range through peak and trough levels. This was a small study its hard to say how great it works without talking with them.

In my experience those with a higher BMI need higher concentrations of testosterone in order to alleviate their symptoms and reduce BMI. Many studies have concluded that the benefits far outweigh the risk.

It seems smaller dosages alleviate depression symptoms but fail to alleviate sexual and physical symptoms of hypogonadism.

There should be justification for any protocol.

Just my 2 cents

So why is everyone on 100+mgs per week -__-, curious

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

cause it works better, for me at least.

 

[Brunodk]

If you inject even 100mg at once you can be slightly above range. There is no effective way to disperse testosterone exactly as the body does, even HCG will not mimic it. Its a losing battle, its not about what can happen, its about risk reward. Everyone can agree that low testosterone and obesity can leave you prone to a heart attack, the question is are the risks of sub 200mg a week testosterone greater or less than the risk of lowt?

All drugs come with a risk and historically speaking physicians tend to overprescribe all types of medication. It seems to me that men with low testosterone from other things besides age and BMI can alleviate their symptoms with small doses of even 50mg a week. A Canadian study in 2009 showed that sub c 50mg a week testosterone cypionate kept men within range through peak and trough levels. This was a small study its hard to say how great it works without talking with them.

In my experience those with a higher BMI need higher concentrations of testosterone in order to alleviate their symptoms and reduce BMI. Many studies have concluded that the benefits far outweigh the risk.

It seems smaller dosages alleviate depression symptoms but fail to alleviate sexual and physical symptoms of hypogonadism.

There should be justification for any protocol.

Just my 2 cents

I completely agree and you provided some great info. You highlighted my exact question that really had me pondering this to begin with. We are all familiar with the risk/reward trade off on the low side of the spectrum, namely having low T vs being on TRT. But at what point do the risks outweigh the rewards on the high side?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Its a good question, but most hypogonadal men that I know improve their lab work while on TRT. Diet is key with blood work. mine changes depending on a lot of things, even time of year. As long as your consistently getting blood work and hematology is fine why not optimize your testosterone to its fullest potential?


and it just works better, did I say that before? If you do not alleviate symptoms what is the point?

 

[Brunodk]

Its a good question, but most hypogonadal men that I know improve their lab work while on TRT. Diet is key with blood work. mine changes depending on a lot of things, even time of year. As long as your consistently getting blood work and hematology is fine why not optimize your testosterone to its fullest potential?


and it just works better, did I say that before? If you do not alleviate symptoms what is the point?

You bring up a good point. I am much more aware of my overall health, and blood work/labs in particular. I've stopped taking certain things for granted and became keenly aware how important it is to be an advocate for your personal health.

 

[Harot]

This is an interesting question...and what is more interesting is the numbers you cited, because that is exactly my situation. I am at 60 mg of T-cyp every 3.5 days... and .5 of Arimidex on dosing days. On last Friday my T was at 890 ED at 23, next Thursday my labs showed T at 1410.

I literally changed nothing...and I wouldn't think my dosing schedule would have a swing of 500 from one week to the next...

But, I felt great both weeks, now that I have my E2 under control...

 

[Brunodk]

This is an interesting question...and what is more interesting is the numbers you cited, because that is exactly my situation. I am at 60 mg of T-cyp every 3.5 days... and .5 of Arimidex on dosing days. On last Friday my T was at 890 ED at 23, next Thursday my labs showed T at 1410.

I literally changed nothing...and I wouldn't think my dosing schedule would have a swing of 500 from one week to the next...

But, I felt great both weeks, now that I have my E2 under control...

Very interesting. Those variations were what had me thinking about the consequences of being out of range. I'd love to see some research on this but haven't been able to find any.

 

[Harot]

Neither have I...

 

[Alpin]

If you inject even 100mg at once you can be slightly above range. There is no effective way to disperse testosterone exactly as the body does, even HCG will not mimic it. Its a losing battle, its not about what can happen, its about risk reward. Everyone can agree that low testosterone and obesity can leave you prone to a heart attack, the question is are the risks of sub 200mg a week testosterone greater or less than the risk of lowt?

All drugs come with a risk and historically speaking physicians tend to overprescribe all types of medication. It seems to me that men with low testosterone from other things besides age and BMI can alleviate their symptoms with small doses of even 50mg a week. A Canadian study in 2009 showed that sub c 50mg a week testosterone cypionate kept men within range through peak and trough levels. This was a small study its hard to say how great it works without talking with them.

In my experience those with a higher BMI need higher concentrations of testosterone in order to alleviate their symptoms and reduce BMI. Many studies have concluded that the benefits far outweigh the risk.

It seems smaller dosages alleviate depression symptoms but fail to alleviate sexual and physical symptoms of hypogonadism.

There should be justification for any protocol.

Just my 2 cents

Good post!
Are you referring to "High" BMI from fat or muscle ?
Any male that works out or is an athlete is going to have a "high" BMI and often is grouped together with high BMI males who are obese. If a guy for example is 265 lbs and his BMI is 32 and has probably bodyfat percentage of 20-25 %
That individual would probably feel very little from 50-100 mg/week of T...
would they not?