Longer term testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) guys.

railrider got me looking into this. He is, I believe, using dutasteride. It is a DHT inhibitor.

Acne sucks, and after chasing after it using AI's (multiple types)with no luck, I am looking at DHT, also the body hair growth and a bit of hair loss on top. If I can stop all three why not.

Some people are just more sensitive then others.
MY idea is
IF your estrogen is in check, and you are using a Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and still getting Acne etc. What to look at?
 
Cash:

Copied this over for ya

"
Avodart

.2 DURATION
A. SINGLE DOSE:
1. PLASMA DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE REDUCTIONS, ORAL: 3 to 8 weeks (healthy subjects) (Olsson Gisleskog et al, 1998).
a. Time of sustained decreases in plasma 5-alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels after single oral doses of 1 to 40 mg in healthy subjects; duration of DHT suppression was dose-related.

2.3.5 HALF-LIFE
2.3.5.1 PARENT COMPOUND
A. ELIMINATION HALF-LIFE: up to 5 weeks (Olsson Gisleskog et al, 1999; (Prod Info Avodart(TM), 2004).

A. MECHANISM OF ACTION
1. Dutasteride is a dual 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor indicated for the treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) (Anon, 2001; Olsson Gisleskog et al, 1998). The 5-alpha-reductase enzyme is responsible for converting testosterone to 5-alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT), which is considered primarily responsible for signs/symptoms of BPH (Olsson Gisleskog et al, 1998; Makridakis et al, 2000). Two isozymes of 5-alpha-reductase are present in humans, type 1 (mainly in Liver and skin) and type 2 (predominant form in the prostate) (Olsson Gisleskog et al, 1999; Olsson Gisleskog et al, 1998).
2. Enzymologic studies have demonstrated that Dutasteride is an irreversible competitive inhibitor of 5-alpha-reductase types 1 and 2, which results in significant reductions in circulating DHT levels (Olsson Gisleskog et al, 1998; Olsson Gisleskog et al, 1999a). Data from animal studies have suggested that Dutasteride is more potent than finasteride, a selective and irreversible 5-alpha-reductase type 2 inhibitor; greater falls in DHT concentrations were observed with Dutasteride (Olsson Gisleskog et al, 1998; Olsson Gisleskog et al, 1999).
3. In healthy subjects (Olsson Gisleskog et al, 1998), Dutasteride in single oral doses of 1 milligram (mg) or higher reduced DHT concentrations by 70 to 95%, with levels remaining decreased for 3 to 8 weeks; the degree and duration of DHT suppression were dose-related. After oral finasteride 5 mg, DHT levels were suppressed by approximately 80%, and the duration of suppression was shorter (1 to 2 weeks). This study indicated that the potency of Dutasteride was about 3-fold that of finasteride for inhibition of 5-alpha-reductase type 2. Near-full blockade of both isozymes occurred with Dutasteride 10 mg or greater."

"Avodart® (Dutasteride)
Avodart is used to treat urinary symptoms of Enlarging Prostate. Prostate growth is caused by a hormone in the blood called dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Avodart lowers DHT production in the body, leading to shrinkage of the enlarged prostate in most men. Just as your prostate became large over a long period of time, reducing the size of your prostate and improving your symptoms will take time. While some men have fewer problems and symptoms after 3 months of treatment with Avodart, a treatment period of at least 6 months is usually necessary to see if Avodart will work for you. Studies have shown that treatment with Avodart for 2 years reduces the risk of complete blockage of urine flow (acute urinary retention) and/or the need for surgery for benign prostatic hyperplasia.
there probably won't be much info on it and hairloss treatment as it will be buried in clinical trial data.
It is only approved for benign prostatic hypertrophy treatment by the FDA as GSK didn't pursue the label claim and or application for hairloss as it would only be a $500 million dollar a year product.
But if you find the right doc he will prescribe it for hariloss (the off label claim) as it is reported to have less sexual sides or interference with function as Proscar etc. Shame they didn't pursue it.
 
So I have talked to several members here about the acne.
It seems like A FEW of us on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) are cruising along doing better, feeling better getting it all figured out, and WHAM. somewhere in the 6-8 month period of time after starting we get acne bad. WE chase after it thinking estrogen, and everyone suggests the problem to be estrogen. FOr some it is estrogen, but not all.

We fight it for months washing scrubbing trying differnt potions, tanning etc. but after reading the last few weeks and suffering for months with horrible acne, maybe it is this DHT thing?

One more thing I would like to add, going off testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is not going to help!
 
So I have talked to several members here about the acne.
It seems like A FEW of us on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) are cruising along doing better, feeling better getting it all figured out, and WHAM. somewhere in the 6-8 month period of time after starting we get acne bad. WE chase after it thinking estrogen, and everyone suggests the problem to be estrogen. FOr some it is estrogen, but not all.

We fight it for months washing scrubbing trying differnt potions, tanning etc. but after reading the last few weeks and suffering for months with horrible acne, maybe it is this DHT thing?

One more thing I would like to add, going off testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is not going to help!

Why not get your DHT levels checked and if they are high try a natural inhibiter first. Nettle and saw.

Lots of good info from you guys, thanks.
 
I was thinking of running "on guard", it's a "aas cycle" support mult vit and supplement support (has many ingediants) but many of the issues someone might run into on a 3-4 month aas run are somewhat similar in some respects to a TRT/HRT. Yes HRT it's just test and it's natural levels but you are still shutting down natural production and keeping levels up in the mid-high range normally and it's for years not just a super dose for months.
 
Although dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is the primary promoter of androgenetic alopecia it is not generally tested because DHT is a relatively unstable molecule and levels can vary significantly over a short space of time. In addition, the DHT in the blood stream is not a particularly good reflection of the DHT in hair follicles. Steroid hormone responsive hair follicles produce their own DHT through enzyme conversion of DHEAS and T that they receive through the blood stream. To define excessive systemic androgen activity doctors look at the DHEAS, testosterone, and androstenedione results.
I probably will on my next test, but just had one test and as I copied and pasted above, a blood test does not give you the same "rating" as found at the skin sites where DHT is causing problems.
 
I am not against people using "natural" cures or supplements. There have been many cases of "supplements" having other things added to them. I think a small amount of people ending up where we are (on trt) could be linked to pro-hormones etc. and not using post cycle therapy (pct) aftercare. There where pro-hormones before post cycle therapy (pct) supplements. There have been many cases where these pro-hormones had aas in them. Just like in several fat burner pills that actually had Clen etc. in them.
I do not trust pro-hormones as much as pharmacy dispensed meds. THey are non regulated chemicals. Youre mileage may very.
 
Interesting sounds like DHT is hard to pin down.

I agree man, a lot of the stuff called "PRE hormones" by people are 100% full blow very strong, direct, harsh oral roids. A PH is coverted by the body but most of the liver toxic methyl designer roids (over the counter) are direct, no coversion needed. Superdrol clones being a great example.

Andropulse / testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) / HRT is a pretty new thing really. I think plastics, chemicals and hormones in foods also play a big role.



I am not against people using "natural" cures or supplements. There have been many cases of "supplements" having other things added to them. I think a small amount of people ending up where we are (on trt) could be linked to pro-hormones etc. and not using post cycle therapy (pct) aftercare. There where pro-hormones before post cycle therapy (pct) supplements. There have been many cases where these pro-hormones had aas in them. Just like in several fat burner pills that actually had Clen etc. in them.
I do not trust pro-hormones as much as pharmacy dispensed meds. THey are non regulated chemicals. Youre mileage may very.
 
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There are lots good natural supplements like multi vit etc out there but I try and buy ones made with natural ingediants and from a company I trust. Nothing can really replace a good intake of organic solid food (meat, veg & fruit) but sometimes you have to supplement, ESP guys going on or on TRT/HRT

I'll be adding in a good mult vit type supp with added receptor, liver, prostate etc etc support to my HRT. "on guard" looks to have a little of everything in it (made by needtobuildmuscle a little company really).
 
Andropulse / testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) / HRT is a pretty new thing really. I think plastics, chemicals and hormones in foods also play a big role.

Yep, look at all those fat TEENY girls with huge tits = chemicals and hormones in food? probably. It probably would be really hard to pin down what has shut off all these berries.

Just glad for TRT.
Unfortunatly, Drs use the "NEW" factor as a excuse for ignorance.
good discussion, thanks
 
So I'm all setup with Chip start my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) as soon as it gets here.

Do you guys get your T3, HGH levels checked along with E1, E2, test, free test, dhea? Since they are all produced at least in part by the pituitary and so affected my TRT/HRT?
 
Testosterone drives up thyroid globulin protein I think it is called. I have armor thyroid but I don't need it or use it. I just keep E2 at or under about 30 as Chip advises and have no libido problems on test. I am a rabid dog in heat on it and have more energy than ever. My HGH was low before I started and I have not checked it since. You can take DHEA. It is an ingredient in my multi.
 
So I'm all setup with Chip start my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) as soon as it gets here.

Do you guys get your T3, HGH levels checked along with E1, E2, test, free test, dhea? Since they are all produced at least in part by the pituitary and so affected my TRT/HRT?

MOPAR...? You gotta seek out "riprockwell" on here. He and I were just talking about starting a thread all things T3/T4 related. He's a great dude!
 
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make sure you keep up with cholesterol bloodwork..very important..the test and AI's can lower the good cholesterol and raise the bad...long term and it will fuck up your heart...and obviously you know your heart is pretty important

after starting test a year ago, my bad cholesterol shot up high as fuck, doctor prescribed me Lovaza(fish oil) and it knocked it done into a safer range
 
make sure you keep up with cholesterol bloodwork..very important..the test and AI's can lower the good cholesterol and raise the bad...long term and it will fuck up your heart...and obviously you know your heart is pretty important

after starting test a year ago, my bad cholesterol shot up high as fuck, doctor prescribed me Lovaza(fish oil) and it knocked it done into a safer range

What amount of fish oil? I live a healthy lifestyle, no butter, no eating out, no fried food, no simple carbs or, alcohol (other then small glass Cab with dinner), no fatty red meat (I try and eat lean red meat once a day thou). I also take CQo10, 2-3 tbls of raw extra verg olive oil ed, and 5g of fish oil Ed, do you think this will help with the Cholesterol?

Also how often do you get checked?

Thanks for posting, good info.
 
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What amount of fish oil? I live a healthy lifestyle, no butter, no eating out, no fried food, no simple carbs or, alcohol (other then small glass Cab with dinner), no fatty red meat (I try and eat lean red meat once a day thou). I also take CQo10, 2-3 tbls of raw extra verg olive oil ed, and 5g of fish oil Ed, do you think this will help with the Cholesterol?

Also how often do you get checked?

Thanks for posting, good info.

I take 2 caps twice a day..but I found this online Lovaza Side Effects - Do We Need Prescription Fish Oil?
but as we know the internet can be biased

my diet isn't terrible, but I do drink on the weekends..I was checked 3 times last year to get my levels checked, but that's because I bugged the DR. and have decent insurance..

all I'm saying is stay on top of your cholesterol, it's important
 
I take 2 caps twice a day..but I found this online Lovaza Side Effects - Do We Need Prescription Fish Oil?
but as we know the internet can be biased

my diet isn't terrible, but I do drink on the weekends..I was checked 3 times last year to get my levels checked, but that's because I bugged the DR. and have decent insurance..

all I'm saying is stay on top of your cholesterol, it's important


I'll get a baseline before I start HRT amd then at least yearly. Thanks bro.

I'm glad that's one blood test I won't have to fight my PCP for.... Lol
 
How many of you guys inject your test C for HRT E3D with a 27g 1/2slin pin? I've read it keeps blood levels more stable and coversion down. Only catch is it's a slow inject/draw and you need to be low BF to get IM in some areas with the 1/2" (probably work best withquads, delts, bi, try, calf, chest if your lean).
 
My doc has been on it over 20 years and has no problems. His physique looks like that of a 21 year old. He is 60 something and has sex 4 times a week still. I would recommend donating blood every 4 months. You don't have to increase the dose at all as long as you aren't doing like 200mg shots.

Sorry to ask in the original thread, but I dont want to start a new one since the resply was posted here. I AM consequently on a 200mg dose, so could you elaborate why a 200mg dose might require an increase while a lesser dose may not? Thanks.

I am reading The Testosterone syndrome now, but it doesn't mention much on actual dose levels so far.
 
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