Low test after tren ace cycle. Need help please... Triptorelin?

[Demon33]

Hoping for some help here guys, and any help is greatly appreciated in advance..

My History
Age 40
On and off short cycles for 17 years: 9 total

Last cycle was 6 week tren ace/test prop with 3 weeks of winnie after week 3..
The pct ended 4.5 months ago.

Last cycle PCT was
HCG on cycle from start 250iu 2x wk. blasted 250iu last 8 days. Did the standard 5 week

nolv 40/40/20/20/10
clomid 100/100/50/50/25
W/12.5 aro e3d for 1st 2 weeks.

Bloods came back last week at

Testosterone 196ng/dl, (endo did not measure free test)
Luteinizing hormone 2.3
Prolactin 4.7ng/dl

Need to mention that my stress and anxiety were extremely high at time of blood drawn.. I was an absolute mess due to my ex gf which i am no longer with.. I am really wondering how drastically this effect test levels?

Endo checked my nuts with ultrasound, and I also had a semen analysis test.
Everything checked out within normal and healthy ranges.. All of my other labs were good except cholesterol was 229-200 but i eat a ton of red meat..

So I am worried here that with everything functioning normally is there any hope of raising my levels up to healthy ranges at this point? I really do not want to go the TRT route..

I've done about 9 cycles over the course of 17 years, so I'm hoping that the damage is not irreversible....My energy levels are pretty shitty atm, and I am much weaker then before cycle... I do not want to go on TRT unless it is absolutely a last resort..

If a second PCT is recommended I would like to know if toremifene would be a viable option over clomid.. I have very bad heat flashes and severe depression on clomid so i would not prefer to use it again unless it is a last resort..

A friend of mine recommended toremifene for an alternative route.. In his times of hard recoveries he has used it as a second pct a month or 2 after first pct ends Only if he feels that he hasn't fully recovered.. He says he has had great results on it even after being crashed out.. thoughts?

I am scheduled for an appointment with my endo in a month for next bloods, but he offered no help with anything to restart me nor did he recommend any options.. I will be posting any, and all further results to help others in this situation..
ANY HELP IS GREATLY APPRECIATED.


TRIPTORELIN GNRH feed back as well please....


Anyone try GnRH (TRIPTORELIN) alone and get bloods? Can we trust research companies on this compound? Seems very risky and from what I've read it's very hard to find legit trip.. PM any leads to legit trip or torem please...

 

[Megatron28]

Do you have previous blood work ever showing that your TT used to be higher? If so can you share that with us? It would be nice to see a trend of what has happened to your TT over the years.

I am just trying to determine if your TT has been dropping for years or if it really did come about with your last cycle.

 

[Demon33]

Do you have previous blood work ever showing that your TT used to be higher? If so can you share that with us? It would be nice to see a trend of what has happened to your TT over the years.

I am just trying to determine if your TT has been dropping for years or if it really did come about with your last cycle.

Hi there thanks for the quick reply,

I am ashamed, and embarrassed to admit that I don't have any previous testosterone labs, so I am just going on how i felt before the the tren cycle Which was way better then i feel now I might ad...(strength libido, energy ect)
I've always done light to moderate cycles, and recovered nicely till this one... I always felt great after my cycles and never felt the need to do bloods.... . Yeah foolish i know but live and learn the hard way.. sigh.. Had all pharmaceutical clo/nolv and hcg, so I know that was not the issue..

I've read a few places that It can take up to 6 months for some to fully recover after a tren cycle... can anyone confirm any truth to that?
This is why i am leaning towards Triptorelin.. If there is any previous damage perhaps this is the solution?
Open for any suggestions..

Anyone have a case study on stress and testosterone where labs were taken while stressed, and after when relaxed? I know cortisol can significantly reduce testosterone levels but by how much is the question.. The shit my ex had me dealing with at the time had me far beyond out of control so I know that is a factor.. Thank God I am past that mess now.
Feeling like I am going to end up an example of what not to do here for the newbies..
Get your bloods done after your first cycle, or before you have issues people... Here's your sign.. Classic.
Great advice though Megatron, but unfortunately we don't have much to go with it seems..

 

[Megatron28]

Why don't you use the link in my signature line (below) for running your own labs with Privatemdlabs. Get the Hormone Panel for Females. Go first thing in the morning. Just confirm your numbers. Might be worth checking prolactin as well since your ran a 19-nor.

If still low, I would run PCT again. I know some guys have used Torem with success, but most guys run Clomid and Nolva.

If you try triptorellin, you have to be really careful with the protocol as it will ahut you down completely if not used correctly.

 

[Demon33]

Why don't you use the link in my signature line (below) for running your own labs with Privatemdlabs. Get the Hormone Panel for Females. Go first thing in the morning. Just confirm your numbers. Might be worth checking prolactin as well since your ran a 19-nor.

If still low, I would run PCT again. I know some guys have used Torem with success, but most guys run Clomid and Nolva.

If you try triptorellin, you have to be really careful with the protocol as it will ahut you down completely if not used correctly.

I actually had my first bloods done with my primary care physician at the beginning of the month and that test was only for total testosterone. This test was taken at 9:am
Bloods came back at 186ng/dl
He did not check for prolactin

5 days later I was able to get into my endocrinologist last minute do to a cancellation at 3:00pm
The endo did check for prolactin and that result was 4.7ng/ml and my total test was 196 supprisingly up 10 points from 5 days ago, being as it was late in the afternoon..
My chart shows that I am in range between (2.6 & 13.1) for prolactin, but I am not too familiar with those numbers as labs are new to me.

Now my question is as I am leaning towards doing another PCT before i go back and get more bloods..

Between the options of Toremafine, Triptorelin, and clo/nolv...

What would be your suggestions on a second pct at this point for me? I think that with the consideration of triptorelin, and the rarity of peptide sources legitimacy on quality and dosing from what I am reading.. That is a pretty scary option do to the potential side effects. so I am hesitant to go that route as of yet..

I am hoping that I can get away with Torem only here.. as a friend of mine has had great success with rui as I see them on your banner which eases my mind a bit on the option.

While I have your attention kind sir..
Is there any way to decrease the emotional sides from clomid if this is the best option?..
I don't know if it is because i have such a clean diet, or that I have been paleo, and gluten free for 3 years or what but that shit gives me pulsing hot flashes, severe depression, and I am an emotional wreck the first 2 weeks at anything over 50mg.. I've tried splitting dosages, and taking them before bed even.. My body just does not like that drug though I've used it every time in the past.

Thank you for all your help thus far..
If you can lay out a protocol for a 2nd rescue pct or direct me to a link that would be great..

 

[Megatron28]

I would go with the tried and true Clomid + Nolva. How have you run it in the past?

Your prolactin look good!

I have always been happy with anything I have gotten from RUI.

 

[Demon33]

Thanks again for the response..

Last cycle PCT was
HCG on cycle from start 250iu 2x wk. blasted 250iu last 8 days. Did the standard 5 week

nolv 40/40/20/20/10
clomid 100/100/50/50/25
W/12.5 aro e3d for 1st 2 weeks.

I am reading that Toremifene can be substituted for Clomid.. If so I would need to know the sufficent cross reference in mg clo/torem Thoughts? (I can not take anything over 50mg of clomid without severe sides, and I really only will do so if this is the best option) Would I need to run this same pct again or considering that this is a second or recovery pct, or would I drop dosages and run for a shorter length?

I have heard back from another reputable research company that has offered to sponsor my testing of their product.. They seem to be highly confident of quality and legitimacy.. I have yet to respond as I am still considering this approach..
So far my research yields that clomid, and toremifene should not by any means be taken in conjuntion with Triptorelin. Nolvadex on the other hand should accompany it in a low dose to prevent any estrogen rebound..
The question is how much nolva and for how long...
I have yet to find something solid to go on here, and I really don't want to chance damaging myself any further...
Can anyone chime in and share their research and thoughts or personal experience please? and thanks again Megatron..

 

[Demon33]

Thanks again for the response..

Last cycle PCT was
HCG on cycle from start 250iu 2x wk. blasted 250iu last 8 days. Did the standard 5 week

nolv 40/40/20/20/10
clomid 100/100/50/50/25
W/12.5 aro e3d for 1st 2 weeks.

I am reading that Toremifene can be substituted for Clomid.. If so I would need to know the sufficent cross reference in mg clo/torem Thoughts? (I can not take anything over 50mg of clomid without severe sides, and I really only will do so if this is the best option) Would I need to run this same pct again or considering that this is a second or recovery pct, or would I drop dosages and run for a shorter length?

I have heard back from another reputable research company that has offered to sponsor my testing of their product.. They seem to be highly confident of quality and legitimacy.. I have yet to respond as I am still considering this approach..
So far my research yields that clomid, and toremifene should not by any means be taken in conjuntion with Triptorelin. Nolvadex on the other hand should accompany it in a low dose to prevent any estrogen rebound..
The question is how much nolva and for how long...
I have yet to find something solid to go on here, and I really don't want to chance damaging myself any further...
Can anyone chime in and share their research and thoughts or personal experience please? and thanks again Megatron..

update..
So I have come to find that there are many guys that have struggled to fully recover for even as long as a YEAR after running a 19nor .. Some of which have still made a successful recovery!... They say don't give up hope and before you commit to TRT do everything to keep trying to restart!.. After compiling all my research, and help from the people who I have talked to I have made my final conclusion.. ..


To go with the tried and true clo/nolv combo (no HCG)
Dosing @

clomid 50/50/50/50 (running clomid at 50 for 4 weeks to hopefully make up for not dosing at 100mg first 2 weeks)
nolva 40/40/20/20 then a taper on week 5 for both compounds..

We will see how it goes, and I will update in about 3 months. I think I am going to give it a good month and a half before my next bloods at the end of pct to stabilize.

In the event that all else fails I will take the route of one 100mcg of Triptorelin shot (IM) , and a low dose of nolva (20/20/10/10) to combat the estrogen rebound from the trip.... I was told to avoid clomid, and toremifene on triptorelin as well. ....This was recommended to me by someone very knowledgeable who swears by this protocol if anyone is interested in this approach, and would like to share feedback..
Still welcome any, and all advice... Thanks
wish me luck. peace

 

[Megatron28]

Good luck and keep us posted on how it goes.

You may want to consider running just hCG for a couple of months before starting the Clomid + Nolva. This would help get your testicles fully functioning again.

 

[3J]

and people wonder why we tell them not to use tren early on in their cycling career..

there isn't a compound that will shut you down harder than tren.. its for the guy who's willing to risk trt (and a bunch of sides from the compound itself)


good luck with your restart.. remember not to be in a caloric deficit as you do this, take a zinc supplement and keep your saturated fats high..

 

[Demon33]

and people wonder why we tell them not to use tren early on in their cycling career..

there isn't a compound that will shut you down harder than tren.. its for the guy who's willing to risk trt (and a bunch of sides from the compound itself)


good luck with your restart.. remember not to be in a caloric deficit as you do this, take a zinc supplement and keep your saturated fats high..

Really appreciate the help guys, and thanks again for the advice!
"3J"
Would you reccomend a ZMA supplement, or just zinc, and what dosage/time of day would be best? Split dosages? ect.

 

[thenotorious]

A lot of people on the internet recommend torem...

 

[3J]

Really appreciate the help guys, and thanks again for the advice!
"3J"
Would you reccomend a ZMA supplement, or just zinc, and what dosage/time of day would be best? Split dosages? ect.

you can run zma.. but 30mg zinc twice a day is what you need..

and saturated fats.. all youre doing is giving your body what it needs to make test.. and the two main components are saturated fats and zinc

 

[Demon33]

OK so here is the 4 week update... Feeling fantastic! Strength back up, recovery is better then ever. Sex drive and erections strong.. Back to heavy squats, deads, and bench without being run down for days after.. Did notice a big improvement with energy and recovery with the zinc but it keeps me awake at night so I am taking a few days off of it.

Read an article that new pussy raises test levels through the roof, and instead of letting my energy levels, and being depressed over my ex get the better of me, I went out and ended up meeting a smokin hot chick. That alone probably raised my test the most.
I think frame of mind is most important when in PCT.. Staying positive, hopeful and envisioning your desired outcome is crucial to a good recovery. Secondly, every time I wanted to come home from work and crash or take a nap cause I felt like shit I forced myself to do something active, and after the first week of changing my mind frame I started feeling much better..
Started feeling really good at start of week 3

recap of pct was
clomid 50/50/50/50 (emotional sides were manageable at 50mg)
nolva 40/40/20/20 then a taper on week 5 for both compounds..


Now my question .. I am in my 5th week of pct and I've read that people 40 and over should run pct a little longer.. Also came across a few articles where it was recommended to taper PCT for a few weeks.. I have always tapered week 5 but I want to be safe..
I am a bit worried about the possibility of crashing after the PCT ends, so I want to do this the best way possible..


Currently starting week 5 at 25 clomid/day
10 nolva/day
Praying I don't crash again after this
!
Is it necessary to taper down for a few weeks?


Thanks again in advance!