Low Testosterone due to diet and overtraining

[joefromgermany]

Hello,
I`m a 20 years old guy from Germany.
My height is 6,2 feet. My weight is 192 lbs. BF 15 %.

November 2013 I made a diet and in 6 weeks I reduced my BF from 16% to 5-7%.
I didn't eat much fat and during the diet I started to feel very bad. I lost my sexdrive and my ejaculate volume sank every day. In December 2013 I nearly didn't produce ejaculate during an orgasm.
But I loved my form at this low BF and so i held the very low BF for 2 more month.
I had extreme ! hunger.

I also worked out very hard. 6 days a week and every day very hard. I felt very bad during the workouts and had not much energy.
In february 2014 I felt so bad, that I went to my doctor.

A bloodtest showed, that my Testosterone levels were very low:
1,5ng/ml (3,3-10)

I realized that the hard diet and the low bodyfat could be the reason for the low T levels.
I started to raise the fats and ate 30% fats from total daily calorie intake.
I paused the workout for 1 Month and after that month I started to workout very easy.
I put on BF and in June 2014 I had a BF of 15 % again.
I felt a bit better.
My T levels in May 2014
1,77 ng/ml (3,3-10)

I lost my hope that I will recover and I felt fat. So I started a diet again for 7 days and went to the doctor during the diet.
My T levels were at 0,8ng/ml(3,3-10).

I paused training for 9 days.
I realized that it must be the diet and I started to eat A LOT.
I ate 4000kcal per day for 6 days.
I went to the doctor again and my test levels were at 2,92 ng/ml (3,3-10). In 15 days from 0,8ng/ml to 2,92ng/ml.

Last bloodtest 3.8.14:
Testosterone:3,45 ng/ml (3,3-10)

My biggest problem is that I still have no sex drive and low ejaculate volume. Before I started the diet I masturbated for 3-4 times a day and produced a lot of cum.
I am recovering for 7 months now but I still have low t levels and no sex drive plus I feel not very well.
My current BF is 17 %. I think this is a healthy BF and my T levels should be normal again but they aren't. Im loosing hope again.
Currently I work out for 4 days a week and 2 times very easy cardio for 20 minutes.
I think thats not too much.


1. Had anyone here same problems after an extreme diet and overtraining and now how long it will take to recover ?
2. Shall I stay natural or try Nolvadex or Clomid to restart HPTA ?
3. Has anyone any tips for me to increase the recovery process ?

I hope you guys can help me and say me what I have to do and how long it takes to recover.

Best regards from germany.
Joe

 

[Megatron28]

You need to get more blood work than just testosterone. Read the Basic TRT Overview to see what blood work you need. Once you have it come back and post it up here. There are lots of things that can cause Low T.

 

[joefromgermany]

***8226; Hematocrit 13,8 g/dl (13,5-17,5)
***8226; Liver Enzymes are elevated because of EBV.
***8226; eGFR (MDR) 128ml/min
Creatinin 0,82 mg/dl (0,7-1,20)
Estradiol 9 pg/ml (8-43)
Prolactin 9,8ng/ml(4,0-15,2)
FSH 3,2mIU/ml (1,5-12)
LH 2,6 MIU/ml (1,7-8,6)
SHBG 48,2 nmol/l

TSH:1,67mU/l (0,25-4,04)
FT3:2,39 (1,7-3,7)
FT4:1,67 (0,7-1,48)
Cortisol:16,8 ug/dl (3,7-19,4)

 

[3J]

ive said it 1000 times...

your t levels are directly effected by your diet and training.. this is nothing new

 

[joefromgermany]

ive said it 1000 times...

your t levels are directly effected by your diet and training.. this is nothing new

I already know that. I found a lot of guys with same issues. But all those affected guys waited only 1-3 month before they started TRT because their T Levels were still low.
Thats why I came to steroidology.
I want to know:
Is it possible that my body can recover on its own ?
Im recovering for 7 month now and my t levels are still low (3,5ng/ml).
How long will it take to recover completely ?

Should I try Nolvadex/Tamoxifen or Clomid to restart HPTA ?
Does anyone know a similar story from a person who fully recovered from low t levels due to diet and overtraining and can give me the link to the thread ?

Joe

 

[halfwit]

Have your doctor check your testes to rule out varicoceles. Based on your LH and FSH, I personally think something else is wrong.

Crash diet aside, have you experienced anything else in that frame of time, such as an injury to your head or groin? While I agree that a crash diet can really mess things up, 6 weeks at a restricted intake shouldn't leave your body in this condition in my experience.

My .02c

 

[joefromgermany]

Yes he checked my testes.
No I didnt experience anything else, such as an injury to my head or gorin.
During the diet I tried a raw vegan diet and ate only fruits, vegetables, nuts and oils. That was the time when I lost my libidio and my ejaculate volume decreased. But since 6 months I eat normal again and I also gained 20 lbs. But I still have no libido, low ejaculate volume, weak erection and Im sure due to my low test levels.

 

[Megatron28]

How much sleep are you getting a night on average?

 

[joefromgermany]

How much sleep are you getting a night on average?

8-9 hours and I sleep very well. I often have sex dreams and erections during sleep (feel it when I wake up to pee during the night) but no morning wood.

 

[Megatron28]

8-9 hours and I sleep very well. I often have sex dreams and erections during sleep (feel it when I wake up to pee during the night) but no morning wood.

Lack of morning wood doesn't mean anything. As you said, you are getting erections at night. That is good.

 

[joefromgermany]

Great to know. For me lack of morning wood was always a signal for low testosterone.

Can you please respond to my questions ?

Is it possible that my body can recover on its own ?
Im recovering for 7 month now and my t levels are still low (3,5ng/ml).
How long will it take to recover completely ?

Should I try Nolvadex/Tamoxifen or Clomid to restart HPTA ?
Does anyone know a similar story from a person who fully recovered from low t levels due to diet and overtraining and can give me the link to the thread ?

 

[Megatron28]

Great to know. For me lack of morning wood was always a signal for low testosterone.

Can you please respond to my questions ?

Is it possible that my body can recover on its own ?
Im recovering for 7 month now and my t levels are still low (3,5ng/ml).
How long will it take to recover completely ?

Should I try Nolvadex/Tamoxifen or Clomid to restart HPTA ?
Does anyone know a similar story from a person who fully recovered from low t levels due to diet and overtraining and can give me the link to the thread ?

Yes it is possible to recover on its own if you make lifestyle changes. Problem is that we don't know what your test used to be. For all we know, this is where it has always been.

How long? No way to know. Everyone is different and it depends on how well you implement lifestyle changes. Train properly. Don't over train. Eat properly. Get enough sleep. No drug or alcohol use. Reduce stress from your life. And so on. Lots of factors at play when it comes to testosterone levels.

Clomid could help if the lifestyle changes do not work. But there is no guarantee. But it is often worth trying in the presence of secondary hypogonadism before jumping on TRT.

 

[halfwit]

I just think there's something else going on if you had a total testosterone of 80ng/dL. That's VERY low, and it just seems something else is missing from the picture here.

Clomid will increase your LH, but how much that translates to an increase in testosterone and for how long isn't something any of us can tell you for sure as everyone is different.

What does your doctor want to do?

 

[joefromgermany]

Yes it is possible to recover on its own if you make lifestyle changes. Problem is that we don't know what your test used to be. For all we know, this is where it has always been.

How long? No way to know. Everyone is different and it depends on how well you implement lifestyle changes. Train properly. Don't over train. Eat properly. Get enough sleep. No drug or alcohol use. Reduce stress from your life. And so on. Lots of factors at play when it comes to testosterone levels.

Clomid could help if the lifestyle changes do not work. But there is no guarantee. But it is often worth trying in the presence of secondary hypogonadism before jumping on TRT.

My lifestyle is perfect to recover. I sleep enough, don't drink or take drugs, don't have stress, workout 3 times a week but only easy workouts and eat 3800 kcal per day.
I will ask my endo what he thinks about Clomid or Tamoxifen. I don't think it will have a good effect because my estrogen levels are low.

@halfwit
The low t problems occur during the diet and since I eat more and stopped training t levels are slowly increasing.
What else do you think could be the reason ?

After my Endo made a GNRH Test and my pituitary responsed very well, he is sure that its due to diet/overtraining and just wants to wait and see how things go on. But I want to know if a Clomid therapy would be better.

 

[Rida5d]

I ll share my own experience ..
I started a thread few months ago regarding my TT levels.. I'm 38 years old and my readings were around 490-500..
I fucked up in holidays ang gained weight so I approached a crash diet to get in shape quickly..
Two reading at that period were at 300s
2 weeks after the crash diet I had my TT measured my reading was 530
Now I know from my own experience that diet could fuck things up , I ended up 200 points lower, and my question to you have u ever tested ur TT before all this?

Like halfwit said , ur reading is very low and it could be something else.. Even we applied what happened to me to ur case and added 200-300 u ll be still low.

 

[Megatron28]

What is you vitamin D level at?

Tell us about your diet. What did you eat yesterday for example?

 

[joefromgermany]

You made a diet for 2 weeks and your levels dropped 200 points.
I made a diet for 5 months and my levels dropped to an extreme low point.
I am open minded for other reasons but I am 95% sure that my symptoms are due to diet and overtraining.
I found over 50 guys with same issues but they all started TRT or didn't answer after a few month anymore.

I came here because I wanted to know if its a good idea to try a Clomid therapy and to find guys with same issues.
Vitamin D level is in range. Don't know the exact level.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

I'm going to throw my opinion into this since I've done bloodwork on clients dieting & staying at 5-7%bf plus used a few pct protocols.

As mega said, we gave no pre-diet bloodwork to compare with difficult to work out just how much damage, if any, the dieting did.

I'm interested in your weight, not bodyfat, weight - how much did you weigh pre-diet, after diet, right now?
T levels are linked to bodyweight, the less you weigh the lower your T will be.
My thinking is that you lost a significant amount of muscle following a low protein vegan diet, which means your overall weight may be less than what it pre-diet & your bf% is elevated due to muscle loss rather than exclusively due to weight gain.

As for how long it takes to recover, its usually equal to the time taken to cause the damage.
Had you stayed at maintenance after the diet then your body would've recovered fairly quickly but instead you followed the yo-yo model: 15%-5/7%-17% in a short space of time.
No one can really answer the how long to recover question because, as mega said, there are too many factors at play here.
In terms of pct help, your e2 is pretty low so I would avoid anything that will make this worse.

My opinion would be that you have to eat at maintenance, NOT a surplus, for a while with a healthy diet - none of this vegan bullshit - and see where your levels are in 2/3 months.

 

[Rida5d]

You made a diet for 2 weeks and your levels dropped 200 points.
I made a diet for 5 months and my levels dropped to an extreme low point.
I am open minded for other reasons but I am 95% sure that my symptoms are due to diet and overtraining.
I found over 50 guys with same issues but they all started TRT or didn't answer after a few month anymore.

I came here because I wanted to know if its a good idea to try a Clomid therapy and to find guys with same issues.
Vitamin D level is in range. Don't know the exact level.

I went the Lyle McDonald crashed diet route .. Only protein , no carbs , fats are almost non existent..


Don't tell u you ve done a crash diet for 5 months , I believe this is not applicable ..


Reading ripped , megatron , halfwit posts could be beneficial to answer your question.. The answer is .. There is no definite answer I guess.. 1 mil factors and no one knows where ur TT levels were before u started your diet.

 

[halfwit]

My lifestyle is perfect to recover. I sleep enough, don't drink or take drugs, don't have stress, workout 3 times a week but only easy workouts and eat 3800 kcal per day.
I will ask my endo what he thinks about Clomid or Tamoxifen. I don't think it will have a good effect because my estrogen levels are low.

@halfwit
The low t problems occur during the diet and since I eat more and stopped training t levels are slowly increasing.
What else do you think could be the reason ?

After my Endo made a GNRH Test and my pituitary responsed very well, he is sure that its due to diet/overtraining and just wants to wait and see how things go on. But I want to know if a Clomid therapy would be better.

Honestly, there are so many causes of hypogonadism, doctors still have to label many as 'idiopathic' as they can't find what the culprit is.

I'm not a doctor, but if I were; I'd look at your adrenal glands (cortisol poisoning from exercise/diet stress), hypothalamus gland (prolactin is secreted here), testes (varicoceles can be hard to find), pituitary (even though you have a fantastic FSH output), and finally an MRI of your brain.

As the others have stated, it's hard to know how much worse off you are without a baseline to compare to. A lack of fats for instance would deplete testosterone, but shouldn't decrease LH as the pituitary gland would want to increase production.

I'm definitely interested in how things turn out for you as results like Rida5d's are more what I'd expect. I do totally agree with Ripped though; a surplus right now will likely make things worse for you.