My quest to avoid TRT.

[ColoradoFlyer]

As I previously posted, I diagnosed myself with low testosterone after a life of low energy, low stamina, inability to build muscle, etc. Blood test confirmed low testosterone of 113. No pituitary issues. I went to four different doctors and talked to dozens more on the phone. They all said I need TRT. I was not convince, so I got my hands on some tamoxifen and letro.

I started last Thursday at 20mg ED tamoxifen, and 1.25mg ED of Letro. I have lost 10 pounds in the last week, and my energy has been higher than ever. My muscle are more firm then they have ever been, my confidence is up, and my mood is happier. I haven't even been eating very well this last week and I still lost 10 pounds of fat. The fast in my chest is disappearing and it has never done that, even when I was 15 pounds leaner that I am now.

I got a blood test yesterday, so should know what my levels are in a couple days. Any chances my T hasn't gone up and I just feel better from having less estrogen and a better ratio? My previous ratio was 12:1.

I will keep you all updated!

 

[tenn2525]

Interesting, please keep us updated.

 

[j2048b]

Yeah really interesting! Want to see how this pans out!

U could try cashout's restart protocal here on ology! If yours doesnt work out

 

[ColoradoFlyer]

Lab results are in. Total Testosterone is 629 ng/dL! All from Tamox and Letro. I think it is criminal that several doctors recommended I start TRT. Pisses me off.

Estradiol shows <6 pg/mL. The trick is getting E up and keeping T up. I am going to run this therapy for two more weeks (4 total), and then when myself off and get another blood test.

WBC and Neutrophils are low, but probably the cold I was exposed to the day before the blood draw. Normal on previous tests.

 

[j2048b]

i think the real issue will be what happens when u come off these items completly, of course these are gonna regulate e2, and push t up, thats what they r supposed to do, but the real deal will be "the after effect" of taking nothing to see if ur body can recover and stay at an optimal level without having to take anything!

thats why cashout had a restart thread that incorporated hcg into the mix, along with letro, and a few other compounds, and he has been off trt for a while now and blood levels have been good for him and a few others who did the same protocol.

 

[ColoradoFlyer]

i think the real issue will be what happens when u come off these items completly, of course these are gonna regulate e2, and push t up, thats what they r supposed to do, but the real deal will be "the after effect" of taking nothing to see if ur body can recover and stay at an optimal level without having to take anything!

thats why cashout had a restart thread that incorporated hcg into the mix, along with letro, and a few other compounds, and he has been off trt for a while now and blood levels have been good for him and a few others who did the same protocol.

I have HCG on order and will try that as well. I have read posts from a lot of guys who used short-term therapies for successful restart instead of TRT. I think it is just a matter of patience and trial and error to find what works for each person.

I do think it is ridiculous for a guy to go on TRT when their testicles might work just fine. It is like getting a tow truck when running out of gas!

 

[j2048b]

I have HCG on order and will try that as well. I have read posts from a lot of guys who used short-term therapies for successful restart instead of TRT. I think it is just a matter of patience and trial and error to find what works for each person.

I do think it is ridiculous for a guy to go on TRT when their testicles might work just fine. It is like getting a tow truck when running out of gas!

yeah it sure is, but just like with hcg, it allows ur nuts to keep functioning, and if they have stopped functioning for some reason, i hope u can restart them, but if u cant? then there are def underlying issues that need to be addressed, see once u stop the restart, try to stay off everything for a month or so and see if ur levels stay decent, go up, or decline, if they do decline, ur either hypo or hyper gonadism,

what were ur blood values for the thyroid panel? it can and will help to tell u a lot of things as well.

 

[ColoradoFlyer]

yeah it sure is, but just like with hcg, it allows ur nuts to keep functioning, and if they have stopped functioning for some reason, i hope u can restart them, but if u cant? then there are def underlying issues that need to be addressed, see once u stop the restart, try to stay off everything for a month or so and see if ur levels stay decent, go up, or decline, if they do decline, ur either hypo or hyper gonadism,

what were ur blood values for the thyroid panel? it can and will help to tell u a lot of things as well.

Thyroid was all good. I think I will be able to restart them. I have read enough anecdotal evidence from individuals experiences, as well as a few studies that suggest an increase in natural T can be maintained after these therapies. I don't think it will be 600, but even 200 would probably be awesome compared to what I was. Even if I have to periodically take HCG, Clomid, Letro, or Tamox to kick it back up, it is better than being on TRT.

 

[j2048b]

Thyroid was all good. I think I will be able to restart them. I have read enough anecdotal evidence from individuals experiences, as well as a few studies that suggest an increase in natural T can be maintained after these therapies. I don't think it will be 600, but even 200 would probably be awesome compared to what I was. Even if I have to periodically take HCG, Clomid, Letro, or Tamox to kick it back up, it is better than being on TRT.

yeah i guess it would be better at 200, but optimal would be 600-800, and with clomid and all that ones body could possibly decide to say ah heck no after a while, and no one knows the long term effects of hcg monotherapy which is where one uses hcg as opposed to test...

i hope u get the results ur looking for and ur levels stay up for u!

 

[NateDEEzy]

Glad u got ur levels up! I was wondering though, how do you feel now? Do you notice any positive results with how you're feeling? The reason I ask is, it seems that when people use hcg, which results in increased testosterone levels in their body, for some reason these people don't report the same positive results that people who are on exogenous testosterone or ex test + hcg experience, at least in terms of well being and mood etc... and I dunno about anyone else, but I wouldn't take TRT simply to get a higher testosterone reading in a blood test, I am going to take it for the benefits I can feel such as well being, drive, confidence, energy etc.

 

[j2048b]

Glad u got ur levels up! I was wondering though, how do you feel now? Do you notice any positive results with how you're feeling? The reason I ask is, it seems that when people use hcg, which results in increased testosterone levels in their body, for some reason these people don't report the same positive results that people who are on exogenous testosterone or ex test + hcg experience, at least in terms of well being and mood etc... and I dunno about anyone else, but I wouldn't take testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) simply to get a higher testosterone reading in a blood test, I am going to take it for the benefits I can feel such as well being, drive, confidence, energy etc.

ive been pinning just hcg for about 1 month, 250 x's 2 a week and it has changed my mood greatly and effected my marriage and life positively, without test!! it has been awesome, yes i am going to go back to test as well at some point but pinning hcg is just so much easier!! energy would be there if i could quit chewing, but overall my experience has been positive!

sorry to highjack ur thread but needed to note my hcg stuff!

 

[ColoradoFlyer]

Glad u got ur levels up! I was wondering though, how do you feel now? Do you notice any positive results with how you're feeling? The reason I ask is, it seems that when people use hcg, which results in increased testosterone levels in their body, for some reason these people don't report the same positive results that people who are on exogenous testosterone or ex test + hcg experience, at least in terms of well being and mood etc... and I dunno about anyone else, but I wouldn't take testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) simply to get a higher testosterone reading in a blood test, I am going to take it for the benefits I can feel such as well being, drive, confidence, energy etc.

I do definitely feel much better. Less anxiety, calmer, but I do think I am easier to anger now. My energy is up. Sex drive hasn't changed, but I wouldn't expect it to be better by killing off my E. I the HCG is better for mood because you are getting both E and T. My E is very low no, so I have those side effects with which to deal.

Just got HCG today. Will pinn it as soon as I can figure out how to get into the glass vial. It is solid glass with a neck and a cone head looking top with a colored ring. Haven't seen these before.

 

[ColoradoFlyer]

Ok, pinned 500 IU. I will let you know how I feel after a few days.

The vials are stupid. I cut my hand on one and got glass into the vial on the other.

 

[ColoradoFlyer]

Been on Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for 5 days now and off the Tamox. Definitely feel better. Happier. Not as quick to anger. Energy levels still pretty good. Working out more. I feel like I am losing stomach fat, but I haven't lost any weight after the initial 10 pounds. Muscles feel harder and tighter than ever. I will run Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for a month and then go to clomid and then Letro for a month. I will get a blood test when the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is coming to an end.

 

[j2048b]

Just watch out for estrogen sides! Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is great but raises both test and estro! So keep aromasin or adex on hand!

 

[NateDEEzy]

I have a couple questions.

1. How long are you planning on continuing this alternative to TRT?
2. Have you ever tried exogenous testosterone?
3. If you need to take alternative supplements to elevate your testosterone, why not just try TRT?

The reason I ask is, if you need supplements to raise your testosterone, then something is obviously going on in your body that requires intervention to raise your levels, so why wouldn't you at least try testosterone replacement or even testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) + Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to see how it makes you feel? I Don't understand why you are willing to use hcg, which I would presume to be lifelong if in fact there is something wrong with your body which is causing it to not produce adequate levels of testosterone, but not use, or at least try exogenous testosterone. The reason I say this is, unless you try it, you never know what you could be missing out on. Yes you could feel better on hcg, but what if exogenous testosterone made you feel immensely better beyond this?

I'm not trying to pressure you into something, it is your life after all, I just don't understand the logic behind using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) but not trying exogenous testosterone. I'm assuming your goal is to feel the best that you can, and so why not try an option that might offer that?

 

[RedLang]

Its a form of restart by the the looks of it. Hes not using the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) directly to boost his test but the stimulate his hpta.
Would be interested in seeing your dosages and your plan.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

So are you planning on running the letro after the clomid? or during?

 

[SicVic]

Good Read. Keep us updated, I might do the same thing, before I start roids. I shot Triptorelin so I gotta get a blood test to see how it went.

 

[ColoradoFlyer]

I have a couple questions.

1. How long are you planning on continuing this alternative to TRT?
2. Have you ever tried exogenous testosterone?
3. If you need to take alternative supplements to elevate your testosterone, why not just try TRT?

The reason I ask is, if you need supplements to raise your testosterone, then something is obviously going on in your body that requires intervention to raise your levels, so why wouldn't you at least try testosterone replacement or even testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) + Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to see how it makes you feel? I Don't understand why you are willing to use hcg, which I would presume to be lifelong if in fact there is something wrong with your body which is causing it to not produce adequate levels of testosterone, but not use, or at least try exogenous testosterone. The reason I say this is, unless you try it, you never know what you could be missing out on. Yes you could feel better on hcg, but what if exogenous testosterone made you feel immensely better beyond this?

I'm not trying to pressure you into something, it is your life after all, I just don't understand the logic behind using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) but not trying exogenous testosterone. I'm assuming your goal is to feel the best that you can, and so why not try an option that might offer that?

1. I am going to run Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for a month, then clomid and letro for a month (to answer THE-DET-OAK's question), then letro for a month.
2. I have not tried any steroids. Don't want to go down that road yet. I am not opposed to it, but why call tow truck when all you need is some gas.
3. The goal is to get my body's natural testosterone working without the need for supplementation. There have been many guys who have done it with Clomid and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) therapy.

Exogenous testosterone might make me feel great, but being dependent on a steroid for the rest of my life is not enticing at all. Drinking 5 Mountain Dews a day would also make me feel great, but it isn't worth the side effects.

If my goal was to feel the best I can, I could just shoot up some heroin. The goal is to be healthy, happy, and have my body working correctly on its own.

RedLang,

I did 2 weeks of 20mg of Tamox and 1.25mg of Letro ED. I got the blood test after 9 days on this. I received the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at the end of the two weeks, and switch to 500IU of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) EOD. It will be one week on Thursday. The Tamox and Letro made me feel much better, but also more aggressive. I seemed to have more energy, but was easy to piss off. The Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) gives me more energy and I feel happier. I am going to start .625mg of Letro on Thursday to see if I notice any changes.