My S4 and GW SARM Stack Log

[TKA42]

So I've been contemplating on doing this for quite some time, and after doing some research on the web I have decided on this stack for some purposes I will explain in this thread - I just received my package yesterday afternoon and will be starting this stack first thing on Monday.


BACKGROUND
I am a competitive Brazilian JiuJitsu/grappler and a former amateur fighter. My record was 7-0 and I decided to hang up the gloves after that since I am back in school earning a degree where I will work as a professional healthcare provider. At that point, I decided to make the switch to purely grappling, mainly Brazilian JiuJitsu in the gi, although I still train nogi
Back in late December (a few days before New Year's), I rolled my right ankle pretty bad during training. I took a couple of weeks off until the swelling went down, and tried to start back. Bad idea! I rolled it even worse this time, and it was much more severe. After seeing a doctor and getting an MRI, it was confirmed that I had a Grade 2 lateral ankle sprain - in layman's terms, I tore a couple of the ligaments in my ankle and the recovery/rehab would take longer than last time (anywhere between 6-8 weeks).
I started physical therapy after the swelling went down (about a week). I followed the PT's and MD's instructions, and focused on rehab and corrective exercises, while taking a break from my sport.
I was cleared to ease back into grappling about 2 weeks ago (by ease, I'm 100% safe to train - he simply said, "Do not just jump back in as intensely as you were training before the injury to avoid reinjury). I have been training lightly and I feel like it's time to start ramping up the intensity and strengthening a bit.

GOALS
My main goal is to increase the strength in my foot/ankle/leg. Secondary goals include regaining my overall strength, getting back into competition shape, and to get back to my normal walk-around weight (I let myself go a little bit during the injury, so I have a few extra pounds I could lose - nothing crazy, a little under 15 lbs). That way I can be back within the limits of my weight class. Basically, the goal is to get back to where I was before the injury! I'm upping my training intensity and volume for the next 4 weeks, followed by a 1 week deload/decrease in volume for recovery. The SARMs stack is basically a recovery and building aid.

DIET
I'm going to follow the simplistic dietary approach that has worked for me for the past 4 years. It's a modified "carb-backloading" type of diet (basically, a cyclical ketogenic diet). I eat ketogenic during the day, and do not ingest any carbohydrates until after my evening training session, and for dinner after that training session. During the day I consume protein and fats to augment my energy requirements. If I work out in the morning, I will consume whey protein hydrolysates (I use 520 hydro-whey - it tastes AWFUL!), but still, no carbs (in order to enhance fat burning). I can include more details on this in a later post.

TRAINING
Morning sessions will be either strength and conditioning (2 days a week), and 1-3 recovery days (light walking, soft-tissue work, mobility and flexibility work...so old man training!). I can provide further detail in future posts as well.
Evening sessions are always reserved for grappling - this may be a light-to-moderate drilling session and maybe some flow rolling; other days will be more intense, competition style rolling and fast-paced drilling for added conditioning.
I will take rest days as needed - but these aren't lay around and do nothing rest days - they will involve active rest. Light hikes, walking my dog, a light swim, meditating, etc. Stuff to keep the blood flowing and enhance recovery.

SARMs DOSING
I will be taking 50 mg of S4 a day; 25 mg in the morning before my first training session and 25mg in the evening before the second training session. I will start off by taking 10mg of GW before evening sessions with the S4, and adjust if necessary.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! This is still very much a learning experience for me (hence why I'm posting about it). So any and all advice/criticism is welcome!!
Will post progress pictures along the way.
Again, feedback would be very helpful. Cheers!
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[Milton]

Welcome to the forums! What are your stats?

 

[cybrsage]

I love the look of the new bottles. Much nicer than the old labels, by far.

For me, 30mg of GW50 is my sweet spot, so do not be surprised if you need to up it. Are you going to do 7 days a week of S4 or the 5 on 2 off split? I would try running 7 days on first and only shift to the 5-2 if you hate the vision sides from S4.

 

[axgzl01]

I am about to start a triple stack. I just need some more readings before I start. Would this stack affect Testosterone production? If so, will it be back at natural level after the cycle?

 

[psizzle_8]

Man I love those new bottles. This is awesome. Subbed!

 

[psizzle_8]

I am about to start a triple stack. I just need some more readings before I start. Would this stack affect Testosterone production? If so, will it be back at natural level after the cycle?

Sarms are capable of shutdown. So you should always keep this in mind. The severity depends on your starting levels, what you take with them, etc.

 

[TKA42]

Welcome to the forums! What are your stats?

Do you mean my build? Or my lifting numbers? My lifting numbers are probably weak right now since I have not been able to lift since before the injury (at least any heavy lifting) - the main focus have been corrective exercises for the ankle/knee/hip (slightly boring physical therapy type stuff).

As far as my build and martial arts training:
Height: 5'6" with T-Rex arms
Weight: right now 155 lbs, before the injury and when in competition shape - 140-145 lbs (max)
Body fat: Right now, probably around 13-15% (ballpark) - when in competition shape and before the injury, about 8-10% (not sure on the accuracy, I go by looking at the mirror - most testing methods can be pretty inaccurate, unless you use a DEXA machine).
BJJ rank: Purple belt (have won and lost several matches in different tournaments - so I'm unsure of my record - probably more losses than I'd like to admit
MMA record: 7-0

 

[TKA42]

Started my cycle yesterday, dosing as mentioned before (25 mg S4 - once in the morning and once in the evening prior to each workout; and 10 mg GW before the evening workout). This morning's workout was just a simple recovery/mobility workout, which I ended with some tempo runs (15 second interval run @ 8mph/10% incline followed by 45 seconds of solo jiujitsu drills/movements - did this for about 15 minutes since the goal was recovery and not conditioning). Monday mornings are usually a recovery type workout because I feel pretty sore and beat up from competition training the day prior.
I'm always one of the lightest guys in the room, whether I'm at competition weight or walking around a little heavy. Right now, I am about 155 lbs, but when I'm in shape, I walk around 140 to 145 lbs (tops). The majority of people on the mat (especially in a competition team practice) walk around 170ish and up - so there are no easy days or rounds for me.

Last night's evening workout was about 1 hour of grappling drills, followed by 1 hour of "live" grappling. For those of you who have never grappled or practice JiuJitsu/BJJ - drills are more cooperative in the sense that both partners are working with each other and either learning the movement or perfecting it. "Live" is where both partners are adding some resistance - this can be done at different levels or intensities in order to ensure that the technique is understood (or how to do it correctly), but more importantly, how to fail at it in order to make the adequate corrections. Normally, the first 15 minutes of that hour are relatively "flow" or more relaxed - the last 45 minutes of 'live' grappling is more intense (almost 100% resistance by both partners), so it's basically a real, competitive grappling match. We do anywhere from 5 min rounds and up to 8 min(sometimes 10 min) rounds - my point is, this is tiring/taxing, realistic, and can be grueling if you're not used to it.

Since it was my first day on both S4 and GW, I'm assuming it takes about a week or so for the body to build up an optimal dose response - so I'm assuming any improvements in performance this week are either due to some sort of placebo effect or the fact that I might just be having a "good day." The big plus is I haven't had any night blindness or spots when going from a bright room to a dimmer one (which were both side effects that I heard were very common).

I'm assuming I should cut back on the dose if I experience any of these symptoms - are there any other recommendations/supplements to offset or decrease these possible side effects?

I am about to go for the first strength and conditioning session since I started the cycle, then I'm off to class for most of the day. Tonight's grappling session will be a lot lighter than the last two days, so I can put more effort into this morning's session. This is also my first time "lifting weights" since the injury - but I'm working with a good coach who knows his stuff, so everything will be safe (I tend to overpush myself, he keeps me in line so I don't hurt myself like a moron!).

I will update on how that session goes sometime tomorrow.

Cheers!

 

[TKA42]

Would you recommend a PCT just to be safe? If so, any products you particularly recommend?

 

[Milton]

Do you mean my build? Or my lifting numbers? My lifting numbers are probably weak right now since I have not been able to lift since before the injury (at least any heavy lifting) - the main focus have been corrective exercises for the ankle/knee/hip (slightly boring physical therapy type stuff).

As far as my build and martial arts training:
Height: 5'6" with T-Rex arms
Weight: right now 155 lbs, before the injury and when in competition shape - 140-145 lbs (max)
Body fat: Right now, probably around 13-15% (ballpark) - when in competition shape and before the injury, about 8-10% (not sure on the accuracy, I go by looking at the mirror - most testing methods can be pretty inaccurate, unless you use a DEXA machine).
BJJ rank: Purple belt (have won and lost several matches in different tournaments - so I'm unsure of my record - probably more losses than I'd like to admit
MMA record: 7-0

Thanks for the stats! I do not see your age anywhere? How old are you?

 

[TKA42]

I apologize for the lack of updates these last few days - school and work have taken up a lot of my time. I'm keeping records of my logs, and will post brief updates tonight about everything so far (after my test on tuesday I will post a much more detailed update). In a concise summary - I freaking love this shit! Almost a week in, and I can definitely see some performance improvements in regards to my endurance and work output while when training on the mat (keep in mind I'm one of the smallest people on the mat - so strength endurance is a MUST!).

 

[TKA42]

Thanks for the stats! I do not see your age anywhere? How old are you?

Whoops, forgot about that. I'm turning 30 in a couple of weeks!!

 

[axgzl01]

Have you had any side effects with S4 yet? I will start my triple stack cycle in a week(S4+Osta+Gw).

 

[TKA42]

Have you had any side effects with S4 yet? I will start my triple stack cycle in a week(S4+Osta+Gw).

None so far, but I'm not exceeding the 50mg/day dose.

 

[TKA42]

Recap from this week:
I felt like a semi ran over me repeatedly on Tuesday morning! I knew I was going to be sore after a 3 month layoff from competitive rolling, but I clearly underestimated it! So yea, that was fun. Needless to say, the morning strength/rehab session was not the way I felt like starting the day at 6:30 in the morning. The evening training session was just light positional drilling for about 45 minutes and some conditioning for the last 15.
I felt better on Wednesday, but I was still sore and locked up in some areas - good note is that the ankle was (and is) still feeling good. Just hope my recovery gets better. Wednesday night is one of the more intense training nights because it's comp team practice, and there's always at least 2 or 3 people getting ready for some upcoming tournament. I was surprised at how well I got through 8 x 7 min rounds (after a warm up). I still have a ways to go to being where I was, but this was promising.
I didn't make it in on Thursday thanks to school/work, but I benefited from the rest. No classes on Friday, so I got 2 good sessions in for the day - I also took my GW dose up to 20 mg today (10 mg in the morning and 10 mg in the evening before training). The strength workout went much better than tuesday (about 45 min); I stuck around and worked on some different Jiu Jitsu drills for about 20 minutes after that.
Friday nights are fun because it's "Open mat" - no class, no time limit - just hop on the mat, find a training partner, and grapple till you submit someone, get submitted, or stop due to exhaustion or time ran out. I felt good the whole night - no cramps, which was nice. I got fatigued, but I was able to keep myself moving and relaxed way better than on Monday and Wednesday's sessions.

Took it easy on Saturday, and woke up feeling great today. So recovery is definitely getting better! Sunday is another competition team session, so it's both intense and everyone comes after you. My lungs and muscle endurance are starting to come back for sure - I could squeeze for much longer and apply my leverage more efficiently. It's also been a few hours since I got out and I'm not completely wiped out like I was at the beginning of the week. Hands/fingers are SORE AS HELL!

 

[axgzl01]

None so far, but I'm not exceeding the 50mg/day dose.

Good, I am planning to stay on 50mg at least 2-3 weeks. How was the shipping btw? Was it fast enough? I am planning to get my S4 and GW from sarmssearch and Ostarine from somewhere else(It will save me $100 comparing to getting all from sarmssearch)

 

[TKA42]

Good, I am planning to stay on 50mg at least 2-3 weeks. How was the shipping btw? Was it fast enough? I am planning to get my S4 and GW from sarmssearch and Ostarine from somewhere else(It will save me $100 comparing to getting all from sarmssearch)

Shipping was pretty fast. I think I ordered it on a Monday, and it was here by Thursday (a couple of weeks ago). Just make sure you check into all of your sources, and check the forums to see what people post in regards to the different brands. Pretty much all I've read about sarmssearch has been positive - I will admit though, I was pretty quick to make my decision because I knew a couple of people who used it in the past and highly recommended that I get it from there.
Shoot me a link to your thread if you start one. I'm curious to see how it works for you. I don't think this will be my last time - I'm starting to love it now!! Will update tonight after I get home from school.

 

[TKA42]

Starting to notice the endurance/conditioning changes without doubt! First off, my weight training workout felt much better on Tuesday morning. I still kept the intensity moderate (I didn't try to hit failure or max weight) - but I was really happy to deadlift 250 lbs x 5 reps, for 4 work sets (after working my way up in a warm up) - last week I could barely get through 3 sets of 225 and I was sore for most of the week. It's day two since my last weight training session and I feel phenomenal!

We put in about 8 rounds of grappling last night (6 minutes each on 1 minute break). We had a guest who i had the privilege of getting a couple of rounds with - he's a 4th degree blackbelt - so basically, that means he's been a blackbelt longer than I've been practicing the art in its entirety. I don't get to train with people of this caliber often, and it's always mind blowing how efficient and effortless it is for them to pull off the techniques (and make the majority of grown ass men feel like a room of children). I held my own though! By held my own, I mean I took my whooping like a man.

Point is though, I never felt out of my element or overly exhausted. I was always able to keep moving (even though I was mostly defensive), fought out of a ton of submissions, threatened him with a couple myself - all in all, I felt very satisfied with both my technique, but even more satisfied with how both s4 and GW are working for me. The biggest thing I've noticed this week is that I have enough energy to always keep moving; even if I feel tired, I can always keep moving with proper technique - and that's HUGE. Last week, my technique would fall apart when I was getting tired - it felt like being a beginner all over again (inefficient, over-exerting, over-muscling, un-calm, etc).

Additionally, cleaning up my diet and increasing my workout volume and intensity is definitely helping to get me back to my weight division. Like I said in previous posts, I'm not looking to drop a ton of weight, just about 10 lbs of walk-around weight. I'm only about 5-7 lbs away from waking up at my "in shape" walking around weight before I had the injury - I know 10 lbs isn't a lot to drop, but I haven't really put a ton of effort into dieting (I'm not watching calories or macros, just eating balanced meals with whole foods and timing my carb intake around my workouts - really, really simple). Not sure if the s4 and GW have anything to do with it, but I'll take it.

So far, no serious vision side effects. There was one afternoon earlier this week where I remember seeing a couple of spots when I walked into class one morning (the room was darker than outside) - but it only happened that one time, so I never questioned it again.

 

[anzel]

Bumping for more info
How's it going?

 

[TKA42]

It's been a solid 2 weeks since I started this cycle - worth every penny! I'm still consistently taking 25 mg of s4 twice a day, and 10 mg of GW twice a day (morning and evening - usually before a workout), and have had no vision side effects at that dosage. Hit some milestones last week and definitely seeing two significant benefits to this cycle - 1) I have no doubt that my endurance has improved drastically, and more than I think it would have had I not gone about it this way, and 2) My recovery is much better than I was anticipating before starting this little experiment.
I went out of town this weekend to a seminar and training camp that lasted Friday-Sunday, and this was the highest volume of training (condensed into 3 days) that I have participated in since before the injury in December. I felt like I got hit by a truck on Saturday morning, so it was a grind to get through Saturday and Sunday. Yesterday was a much deserved rest day (I could tell I was over trained - my common symptom is insomnia despite being horribly exhausted); however, I woke up this morning feeling like I hadn't trained in a week - big, big plus!! Getting ready to go hit my 5 strengthtraining session since starting this cycle.
All in all, I'm beyond satisfied with the results so far. My deadlift is steadily going back up (although I have not max'd out yet - but I can tolerate the higher weights again...and don't judge, heavy weight to me is warm up for most of the people on this forum, haha), I could barely rep out 225 for 5 reps about two weeks ago, and last Thursday I was able to rep out 265 for 7 reps until I fatigued - big improvement since I'm only starting the 3rd week of lifting since I was side-lined in December.
One thing I am realizing is that 1 cycle might not be enough to get me back where I wanted, so I'm going to start looking into how to cycle off and on. Any recommendations would be appreciated, ie - Do I need to take a PCT between cycles, and if so, what is a good PCT to take and how should I take it (how long, dosing, etc)? How long should I wait to start the next cycle (1, 2, 3, or 4 weeks? longer?)? Those are my two main questions, but any extra advice is greatly appreciated.
Well I'm off to hit my strength and conditioning workout before going to class all day. Cheers!!