my second cycle test only

[Mrrippedzilla]

AGE

The first and most important requirement of running a cycle is your age. Through my years as a nutritionist I have seen some very athletic young men with ages ranging from 18-23 who look more ready for a cycle then most who are at the proper age. Regardless, someone who is young has a very high natural testosterone level of 800-1000ng/dl. Getting to the root of the issue, there are two major reasons why running a cycle at a young age is unacceptable and risky. Running a cycle at that young of an age will only risk the recovery of those high levels of testosterone, even if the user runs a perfect post cycle therapy (pct) (we will discuss that later) one could end up with subpar levels of natural testosterone for life after the fact . Secondly, between the ages of 18 and 23 one still has room to grow in height. When a surge of testosterone runs through the body at a supra-physiological dose your growth plates fuse and you're at the tallest you will ever be.

Everything 3J states here is backed up by science.

Here is an awesome study that I recommend everyone reads:

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jc.2010-0435

Firstly, in the study they used a mixture equivalent to sust 250 during puberty in order to stop teenagers from growing too tall (this was apparently a bad thing in the 50s).
The cycle lasted 1.5 years & was successful in stopping height growth - this is CLEAR evidence that taking aas too early WILL stop you from growing any further.

Secondly, they did a follow up 21 years later to see if there were any lasting effects from the aas use during puberty.
They found that, compared to an average individual of the same age, serum test levels were SIGNIFICANTLY lower for that group.
Again, this is strong evidence that using aas too early means you can forget about recovering your natty t levels & increases the likelihood of trt significantly for the future.


As for the "25" number, as Mega stated this is simply a rough average - some will be ready earlier & some later but there is no way for us to determine this on an individual basis without an extended period of time getting to know the person.
From a personal perspective, this also gives guys time to get a number of years of training under their belt along with dieting experience so that the POTENTIAL of their first cycle is maximized.

 

[3J]

Everything 3J states here is backed up by science.

Here is an awesome study that I recommend everyone reads:

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jc.2010-0435

Firstly, in the study they used a mixture equivalent to sust 250 during puberty in order to stop teenagers from growing too tall (this was apparently a bad thing in the 50s).
The cycle lasted 1.5 years & was successful in stopping height growth - this is CLEAR evidence that taking aas too early WILL stop you from growing any further.

Secondly, they did a follow up 21 years later to see if there were any lasting effects from the aas use during puberty.
They found that, compared to an average individual of the same age, serum test levels were SIGNIFICANTLY lower for that group.
Again, this is strong evidence that using aas too early means you can forget about recovering your natty t levels & increases the likelihood of trt significantly for the future.


As for the "25" number, as Mega stated this is simply a rough average - some will be ready earlier & some later but there is no way for us to determine this on an individual basis without an extended period of time getting to know the person.
From a personal perspective, this also gives guys time to get a number of years of training under their belt along with dieting experience so that the POTENTIAL of their first cycle is maximized.

yea rip hit the money with this article.. he sent it to me while ago and i am working up an article on the damage of hpta of over time with early steroid use

 

[3J]

Everything 3J states here is backed up by science.

Here is an awesome study that I recommend everyone reads:

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jc.2010-0435

Firstly, in the study they used a mixture equivalent to sust 250 during puberty in order to stop teenagers from growing too tall (this was apparently a bad thing in the 50s).
The cycle lasted 1.5 years & was successful in stopping height growth - this is CLEAR evidence that taking aas too early WILL stop you from growing any further.

Secondly, they did a follow up 21 years later to see if there were any lasting effects from the aas use during puberty.
They found that, compared to an average individual of the same age, serum test levels were SIGNIFICANTLY lower for that group.
Again, this is strong evidence that using aas too early means you can forget about recovering your natty t levels & increases the likelihood of trt significantly for the future.


As for the "25" number, as Mega stated this is simply a rough average - some will be ready earlier & some later but there is no way for us to determine this on an individual basis without an extended period of time getting to know the person.
From a personal perspective, this also gives guys time to get a number of years of training under their belt along with dieting experience so that the POTENTIAL of their first cycle is maximized.

yea rip hit the money with this article.. he sent it to me while ago and i am working up an article on the damage of hpta of over time with early steroid use

 

[Hypnotix]

Thank you always a plethora of information given out here.

So, this grey area, (23-26y.o.) should be taken seriously, as 25 yrs is just the average stopping point for most people. Essentially leaving it up to the individual to take the risk of ruining the natural system, if they make the decision to use during said range.

All makes sense. Again, thank you!

 

[Siamakdieded]

People are forgetting one important fact. I have morning wood 3 days after my last pin, my sex drive is still there but not 100% recovered. I did this by eating 700g Kale (most nutrient dense green), 2g omega 3 from fish, and some other nutrient dense foods. I will spend a while off to fully recover, might be off for 12 weeks + pct for a 7 week low dosed cycle. My next cycle , i hope to take a 20 week + pct break for a 7 week cycle. The guys who get shut down misuse the drugs, plain and simple, 23 is not a bad age to start, yeh 25 is better, but if you are trying to tell me 25 + several compounds > my approach then you are deluded.

 

[Onk]

but if you are trying to tell me 25 + several compounds > my approach then you are deluded.

no, we'd tell you to wait until after turning 25 and THEN run a Test only cycle. Don't go deluding yourself into thinking that when you turn 25 you can then magically jump in the deep end

 

[Megatron28]

People are forgetting one important fact. I have morning wood 3 days after my last pin, my sex drive is still there but not 100% recovered. I did this by eating 700g Kale (most nutrient dense green), 2g omega 3 from fish, and some other nutrient dense foods. I will spend a while off to fully recover, might be off for 12 weeks + pct for a 7 week low dosed cycle. My next cycle , i hope to take a 20 week + pct break for a 7 week cycle. The guys who get shut down misuse the drugs, plain and simple, 23 is not a bad age to start, yeh 25 is better, but if you are trying to tell me 25 + several compounds > my approach then you are deluded.

Whatever... Caveat emptor.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

People are forgetting one important fact. I have morning wood 3 days after my last pin, my sex drive is still there but not 100% recovered. I did this by eating 700g Kale (most nutrient dense green), 2g omega 3 from fish, and some other nutrient dense foods. I will spend a while off to fully recover, might be off for 12 weeks + pct for a 7 week low dosed cycle. My next cycle , i hope to take a 20 week + pct break for a 7 week cycle. The guys who get shut down misuse the drugs, plain and simple, 23 is not a bad age to start, yeh 25 is better, but if you are trying to tell me 25 + several compounds > my approach then you are deluded.

Lol wat.

You realise anyone using AAS will be shut down right? You may have completely missed all the previous information.. But if you shut down your HPTA prior to it fully devloping theres a substantial risk of damage. My natural T is shithouse atm (without clomid anyway) because of this very same reason.

It makes no difference how much break you take... Shutting down is shutting down.

 

[Siamakdieded]

Lol wat.

You realise anyone using AAS will be shut down right? You may have completely missed all the previous information.. But if you shut down your HPTA prior to it fully devloping theres a substantial risk of damage. My natural T is shithouse atm (without clomid anyway) because of this very same reason.

It makes no difference how much break you take... Shutting down is shutting down.

HPTA does not drastically change between 23 and 25.

 

[tbonexl]

People do proper cycles all the time and end up shut down. It's a roll of the dice. You don't have any room to say someone is "deluded" for looking out for your well being though. Only time will tell in your case. A lil too early to be tooting your own horn...

 

[Siamakdieded]

People do proper cycles all the time and end up shut down. It's a roll of the dice. You don't have any room to say someone is "deluded" for looking out for your well being though. Only time will tell in your case. A lil too early to be tooting your own horn...

People are saying i am going to be on HRT for life cause i cycled 1.5 years early. I guess that is it man..... Remember diet, moderate short dosages with long rest periods mean nothing. It is all about hitting 25 years of age, a day early and you are on HRT.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

People are saying i am going to be on HRT for life cause i cycled 1.5 years early. I guess that is it man..... Remember diet, moderate short dosages with long rest periods mean nothing. It is all about hitting 25 years of age, a day early and you are on HRT.

Science says the chances are INCREASED that you will need trt if you cycle early not that its a guarantee - this is a FACT, so arguing against it pretty much shows you to be an irrational person who is beyond help.

I find it amazing that you've been on this board for 2 years & learnt nothing.
I also find it amazing that you've been given so much good advice in this thread & have managed to ignore or misrepresent all of it.

Sometimes stupidity is too strong a force to argue against

 

[gunther1986]

700g of Kale is a shit load of Kale.

 

[Siamakdieded]

Science says the chances are INCREASED that you will need trt if you cycle early not that its a guarantee - this is a FACT, so arguing against it pretty much shows you to be an irrational person who is beyond help.

I find it amazing that you've been on this board for 2 years & learnt nothing.
I also find it amazing that you've been given so much good advice in this thread & have managed to ignore or misrepresent all of it.

Sometimes stupidity is too strong a force to argue against

Did i ever deny the fact? I just did not agree on how exaggerated that "fact" is. See the quotation marks? yeh nobody has proven 25 is optimal age yet. I cant be asked to argue with people about a number that was pulled out from god knows where, there have been studies and PROFESSIONAL DOCTORS still can't agree if the age is 21, 23, or 25. You know why? Cause it is so small that it is neglible. Now if i came here at 25 saying i was to run tren E + test for 12 weeks nobody blinks an eye, come here with a precautions approach at 23, get bombarded with comments on the imaginary 25 figure pulled out of someones...

 

[Megatron28]

Did i ever deny the fact? I just did not agree on how exaggerated that "fact" is. See the quotation marks? yeh nobody has proven 25 is optimal age yet. I cant be asked to argue with people about a number that was pulled out from god knows where, there have been studies and PROFESSIONAL DOCTORS still can't agree if the age is 21, 23, or 25. You know why? Cause it is so small that it is neglible. Now if i came here at 25 saying i was to run tren E + test for 12 weeks nobody blinks an eye, come here with a precautions approach at 23, get bombarded with comments on the imaginary 25 figure pulled out of someones...

Check this one out about brain development. I know we are asking a lot of you at such a young age. You still lack full brain development to control impulses and think rationally.

Adolescent Maturity and the Brain: The Promise and Pitfalls of Neuroscience Research in Adolescent Health Policy

Here are some more:

Brain Maturity Extends Well Beyond Teen Years : NPR

Young Adult Development Project

 

[Siamakdieded]

Check this one out about brain development. I know we are asking a lot of you at such a young age. You still lack full brain development to control impulses and think rationally.

Adolescent Maturity and the Brain: The Promise and Pitfalls of Neuroscience Research in Adolescent Health Policy

Here are some more:

Brain Maturity Extends Well Beyond Teen Years : NPR

Young Adult Development Project

Where is articles on hpta? Or is it just a myth?

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Did i ever deny the fact? I just did not agree on how exaggerated that "fact" is. See the quotation marks? yeh nobody has proven 25 is optimal age yet. I cant be asked to argue with people about a number that was pulled out from god knows where, there have been studies and PROFESSIONAL DOCTORS still can't agree if the age is 21, 23, or 25. You know why? Cause it is so small that it is neglible. Now if i came here at 25 saying i was to run tren E + test for 12 weeks nobody blinks an eye, come here with a precautions approach at 23, get bombarded with comments on the imaginary 25 figure pulled out of someones...

LOL the stupidity is strong with you.

I CLEARLY stated that 25 was an average, safe estimation with differences being determined by genetics predominantly - stop misrepresenting me.

I recommend you go read a book called "Androgens and the aging male" by B.J. Oddens & A. Vermeulen.
In this fully referenced book you will discover that certain parts of the endocrine system, including levels of androgens, continue to develop well into your late 20s.

Now me & Mega have both provided plenty of data supporting our views to be facts - you have provided jackshit.
Either find some solid data to back you up on early aas use or let the topic go & accept defeat.

This topic arose only to answer the questions that hypnotix had & was not directed at you. But since you've taken it so very personally its time to either put up or shut up.

 

[Megatron28]

Where is articles on hpta? Or is it just a myth?

Sam: you are a big boy. Do your own research. I am not going to keep holding your hand on this. Do as you please. I sincerely hope you never have any issues.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

</thread> lol

 

[Hypnotix]

All this guy had to say was, I'm willing to take the risk.. it's clear he's listening, just not letting it sink in and accept that he's taking a larger chance than he would if he waited just a little longer.

Right now, after reading all this, I'm even considering waiting another year.

If I go on TRT it will have to be worth it.. I honestly am not scared of the shut down, or having to inject twice a week for life.. but if the reward of doing so was only 20-30lbs, fuck that, it will have to be to be competitive somehow.