My T levels under TRT make no sense, need input!

[orochi]

Hi everybody!

I have been on T injections (250mg every 3 weeks) since October.
I know that 3 weeks is usually considered too long. That's also my opinion because usually levels are already pretty low after 14 days.

When starting in October I had peak levels measured 7 days after the 1.injection and my T levels were top of the normal range.
Then I had levels measured after 19 days, back in January. My levels were borderline low.
This is how it should be. The levels go up during the first 7 days and then start going down and below normal between day 14 and 21.

But now comes the really weird thing. I had T levels measured in February 14 days after my latest injection and now suddenly my T level is top of the normal range, even a bit higher than the peak level which I had back in October, which was 7 days after the injection!

This makes no sense at all. Either it's a lab error or I have no clue what's going on. Could it be that somehow T is building up in my system cause it's blocked from being metabolized? When the blood was taken I was still tapering down Cymbalta. But I don't know if Cymbalta can do this.
It seems impossible to me that a person can still have top levels 14 days after a 250mg injection.
This really worries me. I would feel much better if my levels after 14 days had been predictably low normal.
I have looked at many charts and diagrams which showed the serum T curve of a 250mg injection and it always was the same.
It goes up and peaks betwee day 3-7 and then already reaches the bottom of the normal range after 2 weeks. But never have I seen
a diagram which showed that after 14 days you still have levels which are almost above the norm.

Possible explanations for my T levels being top of the normal range after 14 days which I can think of:
1) For some reason metabolism of T is decreased which makes T build up in the body and last longer.
2) Lab made a mistake
3) Suddenly, after having gotten injections for months, the same dose raises my T levels much higher than before which is why I now still
have very high normal T levels after 14 days. (-> makes no sense imo)

I also didn't feel any different. I mean I wasn't super horny or something.
I also can't say that since October my appearance has changed. No stronger beard growth or body hair. Also no visible muscle gains, which is disappointing. I thought if I go on TRT and have normal levels my body will automatically start to put on the muscle mass which I would have had
if I hadn't had hypogonadism since my teens. If TRT doesn't make me gain more muscle mass and also doesn't make me feel better then it's pretty
useless.

 

[hiram1st]

Hi everybody!

I have been on T injections (250mg every 3 weeks) since October.
I know that 3 weeks is usually considered too long. That's also my opinion because usually levels are already pretty low after 14 days.

When starting in October I had peak levels measured 7 days after the 1.injection and my T levels were top of the normal range.
Then I had levels measured after 19 days, back in January. My levels were borderline low.
This is how it should be. The levels go up during the first 7 days and then start going down and below normal between day 14 and 21.

But now comes the really weird thing. I had T levels measured in February 14 days after my latest injection and now suddenly my T level is top of the normal range, even a bit higher than the peak level which I had back in October, which was 7 days after the injection!

This makes no sense at all. Either it's a lab error or I have no clue what's going on. Could it be that somehow T is building up in my system cause it's blocked from being metabolized? When the blood was taken I was still tapering down Cymbalta. But I don't know if Cymbalta can do this.
It seems impossible to me that a person can still have top levels 14 days after a 250mg injection.
This really worries me. I would feel much better if my levels after 14 days had been predictably low normal.

I also didn't feel any different. I mean I wasn't super horny or something.
I also can't say that since October my appearance has changed. No stronger beard growth or body hair. Also no visible muscle gains, which is disappointing. I thought if I go on TRT and have normal levels my body will automatically start to put on the muscle mass which I would have had
if I hadn't had hypogonadism since my teens. If TRT doesn't make me gain more muscle mass and also doesn't make me feel better then it's pretty
useless.

Can you post up your blood work so we can a a look at the everything that was tested?

 

[orochi]

I'll have to search all my lab reports. It's a mess here.

But not too much was measured. In October, 7 days after the 1.injection, E2,DHT,LH,free T and serum T were measured. DHT,free T and T were all high. E2 was normal around 23. LH was almost zero (this is because before going on injections I have already been using gel for a while).

In January after 19 days: LH, E2, free T and serum T were measured. E2 was similar, LH still totally low of course, serum T was borderline low.

In February after 14 days only serum T was measured. I just wanted to know where my level's at after 14 days. I expected it to be in the middle of the norm since I already knew that in January I was borderline low after 19 days. I thought after 14 days the level has to be a bit higher still.

I also thought about wether a drug which I take/took during the last few weeks (cymbalta, ritalin, dexedrine) might have stimulated my own T production but I doubt that. I never heard of that before and if this really was the case then my balls should have gotten bigger and they are still totally small and soft.

 

[hiram1st]

Obviously you don't self inject right? That protocol is horrible I was started at 250mg every 2 weeks and that made me feel better than I did but then I had the hormonal roller coaster to deal with, so I kept searching for a new dr till I found one that was receptive to what I was explaining to him and he lets me self inject and we got my protocol dialed in.

My suggestion is that you start searching for a new dr, even if someone can give you an answer to your mystery problem your still going to be having major hormonal ups and downs on that protocol. Idealy your T level to be middle/closer to the upper range and as little swing in it as possible while achieving that level to feel the best IMO.

Good luck

 

[halfwit]

I'm going with lab error, unless your body somehow stopped following the laws of physics or there's something REALLY strange going on with your metabolic pathways.

I'd be really concerned if I had such a crazy roller-coaster hormone ride personally. The half-life of testosterone cypionate is roughly 8 days, so at 21 days - you're damn near bottoming out even at steady state levels. Either learn how to inject yourself, convince your doc for weekly/E3.5D injects, or find a new doctor.

I can't imagine what this ridiculous protocol is doing to the rest of your hormones as testosterone is a key hormone needed for several other systems in the male body.

My .02c

 

[Megatron28]

How do you even begin to manage your estradiol on this protocol? You will need an AI the first week most likely. Maybe part of the second week. Most likely not the third week. That must make it really hard for you to time your aromatase inhibitor dosages and figure out how much to take. Or even worse -- I hate to imagine it if you are not using an aromatase inhibitor.

Do you monitor your estradiol when you get blood work?

 

[orochi]

You guys scare me!

I cannot get self-injections. My endo doesn't allow it and he's the only endo I could find willing to even put me on TRT and I'd also be too scared of it.

I do not use cyp. I use T enanthate (sp?).
250mg every 3 weeks is standard TRT in Europe. I know it sucks.

No I do not use an AI. My E2 so far doesn't seem to go up during the peak, which is why I had my levels measured after 1 week to see what happens when I'm at the peak and my E2 was 23. It was similar to my E2 when my T levels were low before going on TRT.

The weird thing is I do NOT feel ups and downs. I cannot say that I feel super good the first week and then mediocre the second week and crappy the third week. I don't really feel much at all.

I have also been able to convince my doc to go from 21 days to 17 days. He agreed but now after having high levels after 14 days he wants to test again before the next injection to see if I could go back to 21 days.

I also have T gel at home. I could for example start applying some extra gel around day 14. This would be an option. However, an AI or HCG are no option cause my doc won't prescribe it. If I really needed an AI cause my E2 would go too high he would probably simply say that I have to get off TRT.

What frustrates me is that I dont really notice positive benefits. Is this normal?
I mean should I expect to gain lean muscle mass even without working out? Or should I notice increased body hair or better moods?
But I also suffer from depression so maybe the TRT can't do much to make me feel better cause the depression is dominating.

I could try to get Arimidex without prescription but would this make sense?
I mean lowering E2 too much is also unhealthy. Or would a short trial with low dosed Arimidex make sense simply to see if it makes me feel any better?
But since I'm also on antidepressants I don't know if I could even mix them with arimidex. I dont want to risk any liver damage.

 

[Megatron28]

I think what would help most is finding a doctor that would put you on a better TRT protocol. Obviously your doc doesn't know what he is doing. Due to the half life of test E, it needs to be injected at least once a week. Many of us prefer to inject twice a week. This helps even out our hormone levels including estrogen. Surely there is another doctor where you live who could put you on TRT and allow you to self inject -- it doesn't have to be an endo.

Another option you should pursue in Europe is Nebido. It has a longer half life than enanthate.

By the way, keep in mind that your peak is about 48 hours after an injection. Not 7 days.

 

[Slhardee]

Don't be scared! Learn from your mistakes and the advice your getting. My question is this.. What were your T levels prior to starting TRT? Are you hypogonadal? Taking 250 mg of Test should make you feel something. I question the test you are receiving and/or your estradiol. Having your estradiol too high or too low will make you feel poorly. This may be effecting the positive results of the T you are receiving.