My testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) journey

[PJr]

My TRT journey

Hello, I'm fairly new to this forum and have thus far just been a lurker soaking up the excellent knowledge shared by others. It's been very helpful as I begin my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) journey.

A little background. I'm 57 years old. Bsed on lab work at various times over the past, my testosterone levels have been on the low side of normal. Here are some recent blood work results:

January 6, 2011 - total testosterone 356.

January 5, 2012 - total testosterone - 514 - SHBG - 56 - free testosterone 6.42. Access Labs did the blood work.

This blood work was taken with the intention of beginning testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) but I took the advice of the naturopath who did the work that I start 4 weeks of 2 times a week of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) shots which I did. Unfortunately, I don't recall the dosage amount.

Six weeks later, I had blood work done and these were my numbers: total testosterone 395 - - SHBG 52 - free testosterone 5.32. Access labs did the blood work.

These results were odd as the expectation was better rather than lower scores.

I switched to an MD and started with once a week injections of test C at 100mg. I had two weeks of shots and then had some blood work done as follows:

total testosterone 1092 - free testosterone 153.1 and estradiol (E2) of 50. Quest Diagnostics did the lab work.

I had another injection (total of 3 thus) before reviewing this most recent blood work and now my doc wants be to go without injections for 4 weeks and then have blood work.

It seems my body responded well to the T injections but my E2 number is higher than desired. I experienced no negative symptoms from the T injections and did enjoy a nice uptick in MW.

Cholesterol scores and blood pressure readings are good.

Feedback much appreciated and a thank you to all of you who share your experiences and knowledge. I've learned a lot in the brief time I've been here.

 

[Frustrated1]

PJr, welcome to the board.

So 100mg e7d + some dose of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) e3d

Seems that you responded well to cyp, unless you were checked the day after your injection.

An Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like anastrozole/Arimidex will help lower your E2.

Why does he want you off for 4 weeks? Seems really odd. Your numbers will be bottom of the barrel for T, and you will feel like shit. Are you still on HCG? Your SHBG is really high, the lower the better because your free T will be higher.

 

[PJr]

PJr, welcome to the board.

So 100mg e7d + some dose of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) e3d

Seems that you responded well to cyp, unless you were checked the day after your injection.

An Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like anastrozole/Arimidex will help lower your E2.

Why does he want you off for 4 weeks? Seems really odd. Your numbers will be bottom of the barrel for T, and you will feel like shit. Are you still on HCG? Your SHBG is really high, the lower the better because your free T will be higher.

The Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) was done for 4 weeks in January after the first blood work of 2012. At the end of 4 weeks of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), I did the second blood work and my test number declined. Then I waited 6 weeks with only supplements before begining 100mg of test C.

My recent blood work was done before my weekly injection so it had been 7 days since my last injection (I was not tested the day after a test C injection).

I think he wants me off because he is new to testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and I am his first patient. I know him well and agreed because we'll do the blood work at the end of the 4 weeks and have the anectodal observation of how my body feels with 4 weeks of no injections. I've read much here that I shouldn't feel well and my scores will tank. We will see.

My approach to lowering E2 and SHBG will be to lower my bodyfat. I'm guessing I'm at 15-18% BF and will target 12-14% (I've been there before). Comments about what I've said in this paragraph?

Thanks for taking the time to give me some feedback. Much appreciated.

 

[Frustrated1]

Lower BF is always a good idea, but it won't help the high e2. Only an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will help. Here's why. Extra T converts to E. It's good that he's working w/you, but I still don't understand why he's stopping. Which is fine. Yea you will tank your T because your nads have shut down because your body see's the extra T from an outside source. It's great that your responding so well to 100mg e7d. Your T number is really good. Your nads will shrink without the HCG. I'm sure that you've already noticed that. It's also a great thing that he has you on e7d vs say 2 weeks. So at least he understands half-life.

 

[PJr]

Thanks again for taking the time to comment.

Would appreciate from you or others your take on my lower T scores after 4 weeks of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) injections before beginning test C injections. Details in my initial post.

It baffled my naturopath doc who gave me the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) injections.

 

[BoBoy]

Hello, I'm fairly new to this forum and have thus far just been a lurker soaking up the excellent knowledge shared by others. It's been very helpful as I begin my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) journey.

A little background. I'm 57 years old. Bsed on lab work at various times over the past, my testosterone levels have been on the low side of normal. Here are some recent blood work results:

January 6, 2011 - total testosterone 356.

January 5, 2012 - total testosterone - 514 - SHBG - 56 - free testosterone 6.42. Access Labs did the blood work.

This blood work was taken with the intention of beginning testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) but I took the advice of the naturopath who did the work that I start 4 weeks of 2 times a week of hcg shots which I did. Unfortunately, I don't recall the dosage amount.

Six weeks later, I had blood work done and these were my numbers: total testosterone 395 - - SHBG 52 - free testosterone 5.32. Access labs did the blood work.

These results were odd as the expectation was better rather than lower scores.

I switched to an MD and started with once a week injections of test C at 100mg. I had two weeks of shots and then had some blood work done as follows:

total testosterone 1092 - free testosterone 153.1 and estradiol (E2) of 50. Quest Diagnostics did the lab work.

I had another injection (total of 3 thus) before reviewing this most recent blood work and now my doc wants be to go without injections for 4 weeks and then have blood work.

It seems my body responded well to the T injections but my E2 number is higher than desired. I experienced no negative symptoms from the T injections and did enjoy a nice uptick in MW.

Cholesterol scores and blood pressure readings are good.

Feedback much appreciated and a thank you to all of you who share your experiences and knowledge. I've learned a lot in the brief time I've been here.

Lucky you , I had to get under 300 ng total test before my doc would prescribe testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) .
-Bo

 

[PJr]

Lucky you , I had to get under 300 ng total test before my doc would prescribe testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) .
-Bo

Life is much simpler when you are paying with your own dollars. I don't have time for my health insurance plan to catch up with what I want to do. I'll save them for the big medical costs.

Money talks and bullshit walks. You should have no trouble finding someone to work with you in a private pay situation.

 

[Frustrated1]

Keep in mind I'm no Dr. As far as the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), seems that your nads aren't doing much, or the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is not very good.

I hear ya as far as the insurance, many of us are doing the exact same thing.

 

[PJr]

OK, if you read the prior posts you'll see that I took a 4-week time out after having 4 weekly injections of 100mg test-C.

Had blood work done last week after 4 weeks off and here are my numbers:

total t - 406 ng/dL
free t - 62.2 pg/mL
SHBG - 44 mnol/L
E2 - 18 pg/mL

So my total t went from 1,092 to 406 in 4 weeks of no test-C but my E2 lowered from 50 to 18.

I'm not skilled in reading these stats but this tells me that there was some aromastizing (spelling) taking place as my total t rose in response to test-C 100mg weekly.

My plan is now 50mg weekly and take a slow journey of raising T while keeping E2 in check.

Comments? Thanks in advance.

By the way, I never really felt like crap coming off the test-C. I did have some headaches but mentally I did very well as it was a very demanding work time for me and I use my brain for work.

I'm excited about resuming test-C and believe the 50mg low dose will be a slow road but one that I'm willing to take. Will do more blood work about 6 weeks from now.

 

[Packgus]

keep us posted PJr. I am curious to see what that new program does for you.
I am hoping to see the new total T at around 800 ish and E2 still around 20.

good luck

 

[PJr]

A recent synopsis of my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) journey with test-C:

Blood work on March 21, 2012 - after 4 weeks of 100mg test-C once a week:

Total test - 1,092 ng/dL
Free test - 153.1 pg/mL
Didn't get SHBG
E2 - 50 pg/mL

Then, at inexperienced doc's suggestion, I took a 4 week break and then resumed with 50mg test-C once a week. After 4 weeks of injections, I had blood work last week (May 30, 2012) with these results:

Total test - 416 ng/dL
Free test - 41.5 pg/mL
SHBG - 47 nmol/L
E2 - 17.9 pg/mL

Based on what I've learned here, I want to keep E2 under 25 but increase total and free T. It seems like I need more than 50mg e7d but when I took 100mg e7d my E2 shot up high.

I prefer not to take Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or AI.

My thoughts are 50mg e84hr as many have suggested here. I'm aware of one forum member's recommendation of 50mg MWF. I do not pin myself so MWF seems out of the question for me.

I did not experience any mood swings or other negative feelings when I took a 4 week time out after 4 weeks of 100mg e7d (besides lowered blood work numbers)

Should I go back to 100mg e7d or 50mg e84hr or something else.

By the way, I'm age 57 and do not expect that I'll be making any babies so that is not a consideration. It seems that getting my total T to 750-900 with E2 less than 25 is a reasonable goal for me.


I'm in decent shape and twice a week train with barbells for strength (heavy loads, moderate sets and low reps) and do short-duration and high intensity anaerobic cardio conditioning. I'm slighly under 6 feet in height and weigh in at 195 lbs. with probably 18-20% bodyfat.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

 

[BigFella]

I'm a bit older, a bit taller and a bit fatter than you - otherwise similar. I'm on 0.5ml Test E plus 0.5 tab of Aromasin E3D. Seems to work for me, but I've been on only for three weeks (cream for five months prior). I have Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) prescribed but can't get it in Oz at the moment.

E3D works for me, and injecting 0.5ml is really easy - less time and hassle than cleaning my teeth. Give it a go. (Less pain too, as you can choose really tiny needles!)

I'm interested in the feedback from the other guys.

 

[David1963]

The question of ideal E2 seems to vary a lot. Unless you have high E2 symptoms (overly emotional, itchy sore nipples etc.) you might want to shoot for keeping your E2 under 30, with around 25 ideal. I've had my E2 high and low, and I really don't notice a difference in how I feel.

 

[PJr]

So yesterday I started what I am going to do for the next four weeks - 50mg test-c on Monday morning and Thursday afternoon. At the end of four weeks, I'll have more blood work and see where I'm at. I'm going to a client who happens to be an MD and we are both learning from this. He now has 4 patients doing the t-thing and will slowly be building this segment of his wellness practice. I'm not ready to self-pin.

Prior 4 weeks of 50mg e7d wasn't enough. I'm guessing 50mg MWF would be ideal but I'm not ready for that yet. My journey may lead me to self-pinning and contact Todd (I think that's his name) at some point. I'll share my journey in a couple weeks.

 

[03ACE]

If you are on the fence about self injecting, I would say - don't be! It really is easy and pretty painless. It is DEFINITELY worth not having to travel 2-3x a week for a 10 second shot. I have never had to inject anything (self or anyone else) before I started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) a few months ago, and after the first couple of times, I had it down pat. I was at 50mg M/W/F and am going to 60 on M/Th as my total was 1284 at last test (peak). I know everyone reacts differently, and it seems like lots of people here are on 200+ E5D. That would be WAY more than I need, so YMMV.

 

[PJr]

I'm not afraid to pin even though I never have done so. My doc is a client and we are in this journey together. I know I'll eventually pin so thanks for letting me know that it is effortless. What have you noticed about your E2 numbers pinning with a lower dose and with your current frequency?

 

[03ACE]

I'll let you know when I have been at 120/wk for a while. On 150, my E2 was 84 at peak. I definitely feel it, too. Starting an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and trying to lose some weight (I am probably 30% BF) to help control that and get it dialed in.

 

[PJr]

OK here's recent blood work after 100mg test-c done in two pins (50mg each pin roughly every 3-4 days).

7/20/2012

Total T - 603 ng/dl
Free T - 8.61 ng/dl
SHBG - 49 NMOL/l
E2 - 31.8 pg/ml

Compare this to previous blood work on 5/30/2012 after 4 week of test-c of 50mg once a week.

Total test - 347 ng/dl
Free test - 4.67 ng/dl
SHBG - 52 nmol/L
E2 - 17.9 pg/mL

Earlier this year after 4 weeks of 100mg test-C e7d, I had these results:


Total test - 1,092 ng/dl
Free test - 153.1 pg/mL - don't know how to convert
SHBG - not tested
E2 - 50.0 pg/mL

So I've been all over the place in a cautious approach to getting dialed in.

I'm noticing some fitness performance gains in the gym as measured by strength tests and anaerobic workout performance. I've gained some weight so I believe there's some water retention going on. MW is all over the place and seems to be more dependent on how I'm getting along with my wife. No other adverse feedback noted thus far. Mentally, I've always felt good and still do.

Trying to decide what's next. I do not self-pin and do not want to at this point. I'm getting tired of 2 visits per week. I think I want to up the weekly dosage but don't want e7d at this point based on previous results of elevated E2. What do you think of something like 75 to 90 mg e5d which by my math is the equivalent of about 105 to 125mg per week.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[SamSong]

Young fella: the day you start self pinning will be such a relief for you! I also would be getting TOTALLY pissed off with the tedium of driving somewhere for a ten second shot. My life is far, far too short for that shit. It'll hurt less too - docs don't believe in making shots painless, so I'll bet he's using a 21g needle! You poor bastard!

After a journey of similar length, but different protocol (cream) I am now at 0.5ml Test E E3D. I have an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on hand because I aromatised like crazy on cream, but I don't bother taking it often now. If I do it's something like 0.25mg twice a week - i.e. nearly nothing.

I have only had one blood test since I have been stabilised at this dose and I came in at around 1300 on the US scale. And I like it a lot.

My recommendation: Do 50mg E84H, no Aromatase inhibitor (AI), and leave it at that for three to six months, eat well, train well, and see where you are at the end of that. And pin yourself, you big girl! You life is too short too!

(But use a 25g needle, pin in delts.)

 

[PJr]

Young fella: the day you start self pinning will be such a relief for you! I also would be getting TOTALLY pissed off with the tedium of driving somewhere for a ten second shot. My life is far, far too short for that shit. It'll hurt less too - docs don't believe in making shots painless, so I'll bet he's using a 21g needle! You poor bastard!

After a journey of similar length, but different protocol (cream) I am now at 0.5ml Test E E3D. I have an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on hand because I aromatised like crazy on cream, but I don't bother taking it often now. If I do it's something like 0.25mg twice a week - i.e. nearly nothing.

I have only had one blood test since I have been stabilised at this dose and I came in at around 1300 on the US scale. And I like it a lot.

My recommendation: Do 50mg E84H, no Aromatase inhibitor (AI), and leave it at that for three to six months, eat well, train well, and see where you are at the end of that. And pin yourself, you big girl! You life is too short too!

(But use a 25g needle, pin in delts.)

Thank you for sharing and your advice.

I made a decision to go with 100mg E5D.

I'm not afraid to self-pin but will continue with these visits as the MD is a client of mine and I enjoy going there because we always talk and I get a lot of value add in other areas. What I am paying is very affordable. At some point I'll move to self-pinning.

Thanks again; I really appreciate you taking the time to give me some feedback.