My TT numbers have dropped to half what they were a year or so ago!!

[halfape211]

Hi guys,
Once again the doctors do not have an answer, so I come to you. I've been on TRT for couple years and my TT was always 1100 to 1200 without HCG. About a year ago my TT dropped to 800 and recently it dropped again to 600. Same dose of Cypionate. Same timing between injection and blood test. The variables are: (1) that the drop happened sometime after starting HCG;(2) I was prescribed SSRIs very roughly in the timeframe of dropping TT levels and still take SSRIs. No change in health, weight, activity level, fitness or other meds. After my TT dropped to 600-800, the effects of low T came back and I needed much more sleep. My previous weekly dose of T was 225mg and once my doctor kindly increased my T dose to 300mg it seems to have helped my symptoms quite a bit, but my TT numbers are still in the 600-700 range.
I've read that SSRIs can effect TT numbers, but does anyone know first hand of this effect? And I do take AI for Estrodial control.

 

[Megatron28]

We need to see all your blood work to know how much TT is being lost to aromatization. How much AI do you take per week?

You should not feel the effects of Hypogonadism when your TT is between 600-800. You may not feel the same as 1100, but certainly not Hypogonadal.

What are you taking SSRI's for? Which ones? They can affect Natty T levels but not exogenously administered Test.

Even though your weight has not changed, has your body composition changed?

Are you always getting blood work at the same time relative to your last injection of Test?

How much hCG are you running weekly? How many doses per week?

So are you on 300mg of Test per week right now? Please detail out your current TRT protocol and for how long you have been on it. And show blood work for this protocol along with when the blood work was done relative to your last injection.

How much do you weigh and what is your body fat %?

 

[halfape211]

Nice to hear from you, Megatron,

"We need to see all your blood work to know how much TT is being lost to aromatization."

(Can you suggest which blood tests from Privatemd labs will provide you with that, pls?)

"How much AI do you take per week?" (1 mg twice a week. Yes I know its a lot but that's what I have required to keep E in check. I have No ill effects of too low E2)

"You should not feel the effects of Hypogonadism when your TT is between 600-800. You may not feel the same as 1100, but certainly not Hypogonadal." (I've read that, but it really, really affected me to be at 600-800. I needed about 12 hours a day sleep and my mind was not sharp, etc. I know its odd but I guess my body is odd.)


"What are you taking SSRI's for?" (I started having panic attacks for the first time in my life.) "Which ones?" (I switched from citalopram to Prozac and the timing of that change might be the answer) "They can affect Natty T levels but not exogenously administered Test. (Very good info, my friend. I did not know that)

Even though your weight has not changed, has your body composition changed? (Roughly about the time of this change I lost 10 pounds thru diet, and I continue to make SMALL muscle gain over time. I have since regained those 10 lbs, so no big change at that time)

Are you always getting blood work at the same time relative to your last injection of Test? (Yes)
How much hCG are you running weekly? (2 .3 ml twice a week which converts to 600 units per week total, I think) How many doses per week? (twice)

So are you on 300mg of Test per week right now? (Yes , 150 twice a week for past two months) Please detail out your current TRT protocol and for how long you have been on it.(previously 112mg at twice a week for past year or two) And show blood work for this protocol along with when the blood work was done relative to your last injection. (Again what tests would you like from Privatemd labs?)

Thankyou for your questions, I await your bloodtest preferences.

How much do you weigh and what is your body fat %? 5 ft 6'and 180 lbs, numbers show 30 % BF, but there is more muscle on me than the average joe after 5+ years at the gym, etc)

 

[Megatron28]

I am going out on a limb here, but I will wager that your panic attacks and fatigue are mainly due to estradiol being out of range. Those are common symptoms and upping your test dose probably made things worse. You have a very high body fat % being at 30% which makes you extremely prone to aromatization so managing E2 is more difficult. And the fact that you don't know your estradiol numbers is concerning. I think getting this corrected will very likely allow you to get off the SSRI. It should help you feel a lot better.

Get the Hormone Panel for Females. Read the Basic TRT Overview sticky thread in this forum and it will give you more info on getting blood work. You might want to pay the extra for the Sensitive Estradiol Assay (LC/MS/MS).

 

[halfape211]

I am going out on a limb here, but I will wager that your panic attacks and fatigue are mainly due to estradiol being out of range. Those are common symptoms and upping your test dose probably made things worse. You have a very high body fat % being at 30% which makes you extremely prone to aromatization so managing E2 is more difficult. And the fact that you don't know your estradiol numbers is concerning. I think getting this corrected will very likely allow you to get off the SSRI. It should help you feel a lot better.

Get the Hormone Panel for Females. Read the Basic TRT Overview sticky thread in this forum and it will give you more info on getting blood work. You might want to pay the extra for the Sensitive Estradiol Assay (LC/MS/MS).

Yes it is hard to get my E2 in the best range, but it is or at least was in range. That's why I take 2 to 2.5 mg of AI a week. It's been probably a year since I tested E2 and I have a crappy memory, so I do not remember the number. I respect what you are saying so I will get a new test and we will see. I was 70 lbs heavier 5 years ago and never had a panic attack, but the body changes with age, so we will see. And the fatigue came on over a month or two. After 10 or 12 hours sleep, sometimes I would go back to bed for another couple hours of solid sleep.

So, you have never heard of anyone losing half their TT with all things like med, etc constant?

 

[Alpin]

600-700 on TRT u shouldn't be feeling low test. ..
U need blood labs as Mega stated...
Estradiol , TT and on days where its timed before next shot and on a consistent basis.

 

[halfape211]

600-700 on TRT u shouldn't be feeling low test. ..
U need blood labs as Mega stated...
Estradiol , TT and on days where its timed before next shot and on a consistent basis.

Hey there stranger! Hope you're doing ok.

I either felt the effects of Low T or I had another undiagnosed problem with symptoms similar to low T. At any rate my T levels went from a steady 1200 to 600 and I need to find out why, which then might tell me what was causing my Low T symptoms.

In about two weeks I will get the suggested blood tests, while I am still here in the US of A.

Lastly, OPOLLON, you have about 60 days of solid winter yet to come your way. Take care of your snow shovel. You will need it.

 

[halfwit]

Hey there stranger! Hope you're doing ok.

I either felt the effects of Low T or I had another undiagnosed problem with symptoms similar to low T. At any rate my T levels went from a steady 1200 to 600 and I need to find out why, which then might tell me what was causing my Low T symptoms.

In about two weeks I will get the suggested blood tests, while I am still here in the US of A.

Lastly, OPOLLON, you have about 60 days of solid winter yet to come your way. Take care of your snow shovel. You will need it.

Low T and an out of range estradiol are VERY similar. SSRI class drugs wreck havoc on estradiol, which leads me to believe you're more or less chasing your tail by trading side effects of one condition for another.

It will be interesting to see what those results are. My money is on a very high estradiol, as you are the only person I have heard of that has a TRT dose higher than mine, and I just require more of almost anything due to my size. Please follow up!

 

[Alpin]

Just look into it...if dosages and inj frequency are the same u may/may not be in for a suprise...we'll see.

 

[halfape211]

Low T and an out of range estradiol are VERY similar. SSRI class drugs wreck havoc on estradiol, which leads me to believe you're more or less chasing your tail by trading side effects of one condition for another.

It will be interesting to see what those results are. My money is on a very high estradiol, as you are the only person I have heard of that has a TRT dose higher than mine, and I just require more of almost anything due to my size. Please follow up!

It's been awhile since I checked estradiol, so in a week or so, I'll retest. After 6 weeks on increased dose of 300mg I was only 650. I hope it is estradiol, as I can increase AI to fix that. 225 mg used to give me 1200 without HCG.

 

[halfwit]

It's been awhile since I checked estradiol, so in a week or so, I'll retest. After 6 weeks on increased dose of 300mg I was only 650. I hope it is estradiol, as I can increase AI to fix that. 225 mg used to give me 1200 without HCG.

Out of curiosity, is your doc having you go to a compounding pharmacy for your test?

 

[DucBase]

Out of curiosity, is your doc having you go to a compounding pharmacy for your test?

Switching to a compounding pharmacy did almost exactly the same thing to my TT numbers. I still don't have any good answers, but I would love to hear all about it if someone else is having the same experience.

 

[halfape211]

Halfwit - unsure of which "test" you refer to so:
For testosterone I'm prescribed Depo-Testosterone cypionate 100mg/ml from pharmacy. And there has been no change in type or brand of testosterone.
For blood test I am sent to a government lab.

DucBase - I wonder if the strength of the dose is watered down. Perhaps you could go back on previous T to se if you regain TT numbers. Seems like a sensible request to make of your doctor

 

[halfwit]

Halfwit - unsure of which "test" you refer to so:
For testosterone I'm prescribed Depo-Testosterone cypionate 100mg/ml from pharmacy. And there has been no change in type or brand of testosterone.
For blood test I am sent to a government lab.

DucBase - I wonder if the strength of the dose is watered down. Perhaps you could go back on previous T to se if you regain TT numbers. Seems like a sensible request to make of your doctor

I'm referring to the testosterone that you inject. By pharmacy, are we talking big name place, like CVS/Rite-Aid/Walgreens etc, or a mail order/small place?

 

[halfape211]

Halfwit, I get my prescriptions filled by a Canada wide pharmacy, so the quality should be good.

Just got some bloodtest results:
Testosterone serum 964 (range 348-1197) ng/dl
TSH 2.350 (range 0.450-4.500) uIU/ml
T4 Free (direct) 0.96 (range 0.82-1.77) ng/dl
Triiodothyronine 2.5 (range 2.0-4.4 pg/ml

Finally, my TT numbers are higher, but still not at 1200 where it used to be.
I will get further tests later this week, but for now, do these numbers indicate a reason for being tired and 'brainless'?
(PS I was not always brainless. lol)

 

[halfape211]

Update: My TRT doctor is thinking about increasing my thyroid numbers, when I see him in about a month. I'll let you know how it goes and will be back with more blood tests in a week

 

[Milton]

I don't mean to derail this thread, but can someone tell me how I can get a Estrogen (Female Hormone Panel) run if the lab that is linked here for bloodwork doesn't accept people from NY?

My Primary Doc says he cant run estrogen or cortisol levels because it's a family practice. Endo appointment is 5 months away at there earliest one.

Welcome to the forums, PLEASE start your own thread and do not highjack other members threads. Thank you and look forward to YOUR thread with an intro/stats etc from you.

 

[halfape211]

Finally - test results:
For some reason my TT is up again!! . I don't understand why unless I took a second or extra injection by mistake in the last few weeks. But way more importantly, what can you guys read from these?

Test Name Result Flag Reference Range Lab
CBC With Differential/Platelet:
WBC 7.0 3.4-10.8 x10E3/uL 01
RBC 6.02 HIGH 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL 01
Hemoglobin 17.5 12.6-17.7 g/dL 01
Hematocrit 54.1 HIGH 37.5-51.0 % 01
MCV 90 79-97 fL 01
MCH 29.1 26.6-33.0 pg 01
MCHC 32.3 31.5-35.7 g/dL 01
RDW 13.7 12.3-15.4 % 01
Platelets 204 150-379 x10E3/uL 01
Neutrophils 68 % 01
Lymphs 23 % 01
Monocytes 6 % 01
Eos 3 % 01
Basos 0 % 01
Neutrophils (Absolute) 4.7 1.4-7.0 x10E3/uL 01
Lymphs (Absolute) 1.6 0.7-3.1 x10E3/uL 01
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.4 0.1-0.9 x10E3/uL 01
Eos (Absolute) 0.2 0.0-0.4 x10E3/uL 01
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 0.0-0.2 x10E3/uL 01
Immature Granulocytes 0 % 01
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 0.0-0.1 x10E3/uL 01
Comp. ********* Panel (14)
Glucose, Serum 154 HIGH 65-99 mg/dL 01
BUN 18 8-27 mg/dL 01
Creatinine, Serum 1.29 HIGH 0.76-1.27 mg/dL 01
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 58 LOW >59 mL/min/1.73 01
eGFR If Africn Am 67 >59 mL/min/1.73 01
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 14 10-22 01
Sodium, Serum 139 134-144 mmol/L 01
Potassium, Serum 4.9 3.5-5.2 mmol/L 01
Chloride, Serum 93 LOW 97-108 mmol/L 01
Carbon Dioxide, Total 29 18-29 mmol/L 01
Calcium, Serum 9.3 8.6-10.2 mg/dL 01
Protein, Total, Serum 6.3 6.0-8.5 g/dL 01
Albumin, Serum 4.3 3.6-4.8 g/dL 01
Globulin, Total 2.0 1.5-4.5 g/dL 01
A/G Ratio 2.2 1.1-2.5 01
Bilirubin, Total 1.3 HIGH 0.0-1.2 mg/dL 01
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 48 39-117 IU/L 01
AST (SGOT) 17 0-40 IU/L 01
ALT (SGPT) 13 0-44 IU/L 01
Testosterone, Serum
Testosterone, Serum 1269 HIGH 348-1197 ng/dL 01
Comment: Comment 01
Adult male reference interval is based on a population of lean males
up to 40 years old.
Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S
LH 0.1 LOW 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL 01
FSH, Serum
FSH <0.2 LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL 01
1 of 2
Estradiol
Estradiol 36.2 7.6-42.6 pg/mL 01
Roche ECLIA methodology
Information released to FDA by different reagent manufactures has
identified cross reactivity between Fulvestrant, a drug used in the
treatment of metastatic breast cancer, and immunoassays; leading to
falsely elevated estradiol results. Any patient known to be on a
Fulvestrant regimen can be tested for Estradiol using LabCorp assay
"Estradiol, Sensitive (LC/MS) test number 140244' which does not
exhibit Fulvestrant interference.

 

[halfape211]

And here is my Estradiol, Sensitive result. So this SENSITVE result (13.7) was taken 4 days after T injection and Anastrazole medication. The (non sensitive) 36.2 result was taken 7 days after that same T injection and Anastrazole medication. I should know this, but my memory is shitty, so please tell me if this is low. Thanks guys


Estradiol, Sensitive
Estradiol, Sensitive 13.7 8.0-35.0 pg/mL 01
This test was developed and its performance characteristics
determined by LabCorp. It has not been cleared by the Food and
Drug Administration.
Methodology: Liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry(LC/MS/MS)

 

[halfwit]

And here is my Estradiol, Sensitive result. So this SENSITVE result (13.7) was taken 4 days after T injection and Anastrazole medication. The (non sensitive) 36.2 result was taken 7 days after that same T injection and Anastrazole medication. I should know this, but my memory is shitty, so please tell me if this is low. Thanks guys


Estradiol, Sensitive
Estradiol, Sensitive 13.7 8.0-35.0 pg/mL 01
This test was developed and its performance characteristics
determined by LabCorp. It has not been cleared by the Food and
Drug Administration.
Methodology: Liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry(LC/MS/MS)

You're actually a little on the low side. I'd back down the AI dose a smidge, unless you feel GREAT. Many of us try to keep it in the upper 2/3 of the range (sensitive), as that tends to be the "sweet spot". Of course, we're all different, so your body may prefer being towards the bottom half.

I just realized that you had a glucose result in the other panel that's pretty high. Were you fasting by chance? If not, are you a diabetic, or have you been diagnosed with pre-diabetes?