Hugepecks91
New member
Hey guys. I was digging a few days back and came up with some pretty interesting information about this whole n19 with HCG and anti prolactins. Im going to link fro the website that I got this information from exactly word for word on both paragraphs he wrote. Let me know what you guys think, this information is actually pretty interesting and I would love to hear what the experienced and advanced find true or false in this article. Enjoy.
Make sure you have caber in place for the prolactin on the 19-nor, 0.5mg twice per week is fine.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! why do people keep repeating this. There has been some good thread on this of late- a guy called Jaspal did a good post on it too.
Look:
Prolactin "...stimulates the mammary glands to produce milk (lactation): Increased serum concentrations of prolactin during pregnancy cause enlargement of the mammary glands of the breasts and prepare for the production of milk. However, the high levels of progesterone during pregnancy suppress the production of milk. Milk production normally starts when the levels of progesterone fall by the end of pregnancy and a suckling stimulus is present
thats from:Prolactin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You should note that, HIGH progesterone INHIBITS prolactin!!
Then, 19-nortestosterones , are classed as progestins:
"Clinical studies have shown" Deca Durabolin..." (a 19-nortestosterone derivative) "... to be effective in treating anaemia, osteoporosis and some forms of neoplasia including breast cancer, and also acts as a progestin-based contraceptive... Estrogenic effects resulting from reaction with aromatase are also mitigated as a result of the drug being a progestin."
And if you read this, 19-nortest has MINOR activity in aromatisation in men:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...39128X66910129
Now what DOES cause breast development?
"While estrogens are present in both men and women, they are usually present at significantly higher levels in women of reproductive age. They promote the development of female secondary sexual characteristics, such as breasts, and are also involved in the thickening of the endometrium and other aspects of regulating the menstrual cycle. In males, estrogen regulates certain functions of the reproductive system important to the maturation of sperm[10][11][12] and may be necessary for a healthy libido.[13][14]"
from: Estrogen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now progesterone:
"...Progesterone has a number of physiological effects that are amplified in the presence of estrogen. Estrogen through estrogen receptors upregulates the expression of progesterone receptors.[26] ."
also:
"Progesterone is sometimes called the "hormone of pregnancy",[35] and it has many roles relating to the development of the fetus...In addition progesterone inhibits lactation during pregnancy. The fall in progesterone levels following delivery is one of the triggers for milk production." (folks please not, as noted above in prolactin- high progesterone INHIBITS prolactin, low progesterone lets prolactin rise).
So to summarise that:
1. 19-nortest derivatives (deca & tren) are progestins
2. High levels of progesterone INHIBIT prolactin
3. Progesterone only exerts the majority of its effects in a high oestrogen environment.
So, where the F**K do people get of saying take CABER to suppress prolactin when taking 19-nor steroids??? Taking a 19-nor steriod AUTOMATICALLY INHIBITS PROLACTIN!!!
Arimidex @ 0.5mg EOD or Aromasin at 12.5mg ED throughout.
Make sure you have post cycle therapy (pct) in place too of course prior to starting your cycle, also consider HCG as you will be using tren and the HPTA shutdown is quite hard to recover from for some individuals.
Hope this helps.
Quote Originally Posted by lewishart View Post
Great stuff aus man.
Very interesting reads if the info all stacks up to be true of course.
it is true- it the basics- you find me ANY evidence that progesterone causes prolactin to rise? if it doesn"t why would prolactin rise? there is NO SUCH THING as prolactin gyno (been a few threads on this recently). The issue is- people run deca and test, and are HALF AR$SED with their anti-e, usually running 0.5mg of arimidex EOD or EOD; even in this thread aromasin was recommended at 12.5mg/day- NOT ENOUGH. Search for the threads on "deca and aromasin" i pointed why the doses for men should equal the women"s cancer dose- the main reason- all the doses of AIs etc are based on post menopausal women- i.e all their oestrogen is made via aromatisation of androgens in peripheral tissue (fat & liver) as they no longer have oestrogen producing ovaries; likewise men only produce oestrogen via aromatase- which is why fat men have moobs- more aromatase in fat cells.
Now you can see that post-menopausal women and men have oestrogen made the same way; men normally produce 7mg/day of test, or 50mg/week AT BEST; so when you do 500mg/week and ten times the amount- you have a HIGH level of aromatisation, and more oestrogen than postmenopausal woman- now who's bright guy who thinks men can use LESS Aromatase inhibitor (AI) than these women??? people who don't understand that in fact you need AT LEAST the same amount...
So basically what its saying is there is absolutly zero need for caber or any anti prolactin as progresterone levels being higher inhibit prolactin issues?
And obviously prog levels being lower there is room for prolactin levels to rise, causing lactation?
no- and obviously for lactation to happen you need ovulating female levels of oestrogen in the first place... which you can't have with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) (taken at the CORRECT FULL DOSE)... but of course you could have this on Nolva.. as it DOESNT STOP oestrogen levels rising..
and now you know why so many think "prolactin" caused their gyno...
but reread the links 19-nor's CANNOT raise prolactin...
People who keep talkin about taking caber on cycle- are repeating bro- science, saying take a drug to stop prolactin, which normal men, even on deca or tren HAVE NO ISSUE with in the first place.. if they get gyno- its from the test they take oncycle and to low a dose of Aromatase inhibitor (AI), or using nolva allowing high levels of oestrogen to then effect prolactin- its NOT the deca or tren- its the TEST..
In another question, why does the effect of progresterone levels being higher cause ED in men?
does it? If you mean from deca/tren- its not the progestin level- its the DHN- 19-nor via 5-ar enzyme goes to DHN (test goes to DHT), and DHN weakly binds at the DHT receptors; it happens to cause no issue to hair, prostate etc, but at the penis- it causes lack of erection. DHT EASILY displaces DHN, so a TRT level of test, or 25mg proviron if doing 19-nor without test, would stop this problem
And ive heard many talks about just having a very low dose of test in the body, 250mg <> to keep ED from becoming a issue.
correct, see above
Or is it 1:1 test to 19-nor in your oppinion? not required, see above. but if run at higher levels, def need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), also see earler in my post.
Make sure you have caber in place for the prolactin on the 19-nor, 0.5mg twice per week is fine.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! why do people keep repeating this. There has been some good thread on this of late- a guy called Jaspal did a good post on it too.
Look:
Prolactin "...stimulates the mammary glands to produce milk (lactation): Increased serum concentrations of prolactin during pregnancy cause enlargement of the mammary glands of the breasts and prepare for the production of milk. However, the high levels of progesterone during pregnancy suppress the production of milk. Milk production normally starts when the levels of progesterone fall by the end of pregnancy and a suckling stimulus is present
thats from:Prolactin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You should note that, HIGH progesterone INHIBITS prolactin!!
Then, 19-nortestosterones , are classed as progestins:
"Clinical studies have shown" Deca Durabolin..." (a 19-nortestosterone derivative) "... to be effective in treating anaemia, osteoporosis and some forms of neoplasia including breast cancer, and also acts as a progestin-based contraceptive... Estrogenic effects resulting from reaction with aromatase are also mitigated as a result of the drug being a progestin."
And if you read this, 19-nortest has MINOR activity in aromatisation in men:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...39128X66910129
Now what DOES cause breast development?
"While estrogens are present in both men and women, they are usually present at significantly higher levels in women of reproductive age. They promote the development of female secondary sexual characteristics, such as breasts, and are also involved in the thickening of the endometrium and other aspects of regulating the menstrual cycle. In males, estrogen regulates certain functions of the reproductive system important to the maturation of sperm[10][11][12] and may be necessary for a healthy libido.[13][14]"
from: Estrogen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now progesterone:
"...Progesterone has a number of physiological effects that are amplified in the presence of estrogen. Estrogen through estrogen receptors upregulates the expression of progesterone receptors.[26] ."
also:
"Progesterone is sometimes called the "hormone of pregnancy",[35] and it has many roles relating to the development of the fetus...In addition progesterone inhibits lactation during pregnancy. The fall in progesterone levels following delivery is one of the triggers for milk production." (folks please not, as noted above in prolactin- high progesterone INHIBITS prolactin, low progesterone lets prolactin rise).
So to summarise that:
1. 19-nortest derivatives (deca & tren) are progestins
2. High levels of progesterone INHIBIT prolactin
3. Progesterone only exerts the majority of its effects in a high oestrogen environment.
So, where the F**K do people get of saying take CABER to suppress prolactin when taking 19-nor steroids??? Taking a 19-nor steriod AUTOMATICALLY INHIBITS PROLACTIN!!!
Arimidex @ 0.5mg EOD or Aromasin at 12.5mg ED throughout.
Make sure you have post cycle therapy (pct) in place too of course prior to starting your cycle, also consider HCG as you will be using tren and the HPTA shutdown is quite hard to recover from for some individuals.
Hope this helps.
Quote Originally Posted by lewishart View Post
Great stuff aus man.
Very interesting reads if the info all stacks up to be true of course.
it is true- it the basics- you find me ANY evidence that progesterone causes prolactin to rise? if it doesn"t why would prolactin rise? there is NO SUCH THING as prolactin gyno (been a few threads on this recently). The issue is- people run deca and test, and are HALF AR$SED with their anti-e, usually running 0.5mg of arimidex EOD or EOD; even in this thread aromasin was recommended at 12.5mg/day- NOT ENOUGH. Search for the threads on "deca and aromasin" i pointed why the doses for men should equal the women"s cancer dose- the main reason- all the doses of AIs etc are based on post menopausal women- i.e all their oestrogen is made via aromatisation of androgens in peripheral tissue (fat & liver) as they no longer have oestrogen producing ovaries; likewise men only produce oestrogen via aromatase- which is why fat men have moobs- more aromatase in fat cells.
Now you can see that post-menopausal women and men have oestrogen made the same way; men normally produce 7mg/day of test, or 50mg/week AT BEST; so when you do 500mg/week and ten times the amount- you have a HIGH level of aromatisation, and more oestrogen than postmenopausal woman- now who's bright guy who thinks men can use LESS Aromatase inhibitor (AI) than these women??? people who don't understand that in fact you need AT LEAST the same amount...
So basically what its saying is there is absolutly zero need for caber or any anti prolactin as progresterone levels being higher inhibit prolactin issues?
And obviously prog levels being lower there is room for prolactin levels to rise, causing lactation?
no- and obviously for lactation to happen you need ovulating female levels of oestrogen in the first place... which you can't have with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) (taken at the CORRECT FULL DOSE)... but of course you could have this on Nolva.. as it DOESNT STOP oestrogen levels rising..
and now you know why so many think "prolactin" caused their gyno...
but reread the links 19-nor's CANNOT raise prolactin...
People who keep talkin about taking caber on cycle- are repeating bro- science, saying take a drug to stop prolactin, which normal men, even on deca or tren HAVE NO ISSUE with in the first place.. if they get gyno- its from the test they take oncycle and to low a dose of Aromatase inhibitor (AI), or using nolva allowing high levels of oestrogen to then effect prolactin- its NOT the deca or tren- its the TEST..
In another question, why does the effect of progresterone levels being higher cause ED in men?
does it? If you mean from deca/tren- its not the progestin level- its the DHN- 19-nor via 5-ar enzyme goes to DHN (test goes to DHT), and DHN weakly binds at the DHT receptors; it happens to cause no issue to hair, prostate etc, but at the penis- it causes lack of erection. DHT EASILY displaces DHN, so a TRT level of test, or 25mg proviron if doing 19-nor without test, would stop this problem
And ive heard many talks about just having a very low dose of test in the body, 250mg <> to keep ED from becoming a issue.
correct, see above
Or is it 1:1 test to 19-nor in your oppinion? not required, see above. but if run at higher levels, def need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), also see earler in my post.
