New guy here, Estradiol problems

[bigjohn650]

First off, long time lurker, brand new member! (to the board)

I'm a 36 years old, and I've been on TRT since April of this year, using 200mg Test Cyp weekly. I recently retired from the military, I lift weights 5-6 times a week, definitely do not do enough cardio.

My most recent lab results showed Total Test- 831 ng/dl (ref 348-1197), Free Test 28.5 pg/ml (ref 8.7-25.1) and Estradiol 107.4 pg/ml (no ref range given).

Based on what I've read on this site, my estrogen is about double what it should be! I'm guessing this might be the culprit for why I can get teary eyed at a tv commercial, and also have several erections and losses of erections in one night with the wife (I can literally lose my hard on in the time it takes to switch positions!) My Doc took pity and gave me some Viagra. The Viagra helps me stay up, but I find it much more difficult to climax on nights I take it. Also it literally melts my face off worse than any preworkout supplement I've ever taken!

My primary care physician is ok with continuing my prescription Test Cyp, but is not savvy on "off label use" of "breast cancer meds" like Arimidex.

Can any of you point me toward some documentation I can print off and bring in to the Doc to show him that it is legit to use some things like Arimidex to bring down the estrogen levels, like medical journals or studies? My google-ing and bing-ing thus far has turned up tons of forum posts and blog entries about example dosages of AIs and whatnot, but not legit medical documentation.

Thank you all for the wealth of info on this site and in these forums, hope I can learn more from you all and perhaps I can contribute some experiences of my own as time goes on.

 

[Milton]

Welcome to the site!

 

[Gainjin260]

Welcome.

I'm sure studies are on their way.

Switch to Cialis. No flushing like viagra and its effects last longer. Many folks here take it daily as it helps to lower blood pressure too. You can buy it on the cheap from RUI, a sponsor on this board. Also gives you good pumps in the gym.

 

[bigjohn650]

Thanks for the reply Gainjin260. I actually requested Cialis first based on what I've read on this forum, but funny story they are more expensive than viagra so the Naval hospital requires people to try Viagra first. Definitely sucks having to hold the wife to a time table. I could also definitely use the lowered blood pressure, it's been hypertension high lately despite having almost zero stress in my life (its good being a stay at home dad!).

 

[joecoolredbarron]

Hey man - welcome to the boards. I'm gonna x2 what Gainjin said (I use it from the same source, it works) and add that you may also obtain an AI from the same supplier. There's a ton of references in the TRT forum sticky's regarding protocols, dosing, and testing. Long story short, you're likely gonna need to take the cyp from the Dr. and self medicate the AI side of things, and self test to dial in. Unfortunately, it's fairly common. I've seen a few who have convinced their Dr. otherwise, but 99% of the time, doc's just aren't up to speed on the latest and greatest TRT treatment methods.

I use a clinic (IMT from this site) which I chose to pay out of pocket and is worth the extra money to get the best treatment. I'm guessing if there's no AI, they're also not prescribing HCG. We're the same age and I'm not ready to say goodbye to fertility or my nuts having just got married, so you may want to look into alternative treatments.

I'm also on 200mg and the overall consensus (SELF VERIFY - I'M NOT A DR.) is to split to 2-100Mg shots every 3.5 days, 500IU of HCG 2x/week and .5mg Adex 2x/week. Lot's of bloodwork until you're dialed in and feeling great. Good Luck - this is a fantastic board with some really smart guys that'll help get you where you need to be.

 

[appleton111]

keep us posted on how you proceed.

 

[bigjohn650]

Thanks for the response Joecoolredbarron! I've been lurking on this forum since around April, definitely a wealth of info on here! I am still hoping to find some doctor speak "medical journal" type references to show my doc/anyone that I need to. I am interested in IMT but thus far I have had no success contacting them. As far as kids I've got 4 so I'd be ok with shooting blanks, but now that you mention the HCG I think it would still be good for me to "keep the balls alive" so to speak in case some day I have to come off the TRT. I'm considering moving to Australia and I'm definitely concerned about being able to continue treatment there.

I had a follow up with my primary care manager Doctor yesterday, he said only urologists are authorized to prescribe Cialis so I've got a referral there.

Appleton111 will do.

 

[juced_porkchop]

welcome and good luck man!

 

[daleb]

Most likely the e2 test was not the right test. Was the test done at arup, quest, or labcorp? Or was it done at a local clinic? Basically with those three, they run a lot of sensitive e2 tests at once. With those they include known entity samples to make sure they are getting accurate results. At clinics n hospitals they only do immunoassay e2 tests. They run them as they get them. There is no controls or checks. The results are not reliable. Get a sensitive e2 test done.

 

[halfwit]

Running off to the gym, but here are two:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4419134/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3143915/

Keep in mind that it is still off label, which spooks many docs as it means they are taking responsibility for any problems that arise. However, at this rate - he's putting you in line for boobs and a stroke without controlling estradiol.

Oh, please read the TRT sticky. There's a lot to learn in order to make sure YOU are in charge of your hormones.

My .02c

 

[Milton]

Hows your Estradiol doing?

 

[3J]

.5mg adex twice a week will fix that easy

 

[appleton111]

any updates on your progress?

 

[bigjohn650]

Gents- today is my urology consult, wish me luck! Thanks to you guys I'm going in armed with highlighted medical journal articles to help convince the Dr. to help me manage the Estradiol. Additionally I'm pleased to mention I'm in touch with the IMT folks and if Naval medicine fails me again I've got an alternate means of getting the treatment I want/need.

Over the last several weeks due to my fear of the high estradiol I tapered my dose down. I began with splitting my 200mg weekly down to 100mg every 3.5 days as JoeCool and many others suggest, definitely felt better and more "stable" (I have nothing intelligent to elaborate on that, literally just felt better). Then last week I took 100mg and waited 7 days until the next shot and I noted better "bedroom performance" as well as setting another PR in the gym(strict incline bench 305!).

 

[Milton]

Gents- today is my urology consult, wish me luck! Thanks to you guys I'm going in armed with highlighted medical journal articles to help convince the Dr. to help me manage the Estradiol. Additionally I'm pleased to mention I'm in touch with the IMT folks and if Naval medicine fails me again I've got an alternate means of getting the treatment I want/need.

Over the last several weeks due to my fear of the high estradiol I tapered my dose down. I began with splitting my 200mg weekly down to 100mg every 3.5 days as JoeCool and many others suggest, definitely felt better and more "stable" (I have nothing intelligent to elaborate on that, literally just felt better). Then last week I took 100mg and waited 7 days until the next shot and I noted better "bedroom performance" as well as setting another PR in the gym(strict incline bench 305!).

please let us know how it goes, good luck!!

 

[SJC]

If all else fails just order your AI by yourself. Through RUI or another UGL on here. I like Exemstane better than Adex. Adex can play with your lipids a little too much.

I don't even bother with my Dr until its time for bloodwork every 6 months. I just do everything myself.

 

[bigjohn650]

It did not go well.

The Urologist told me "hey man your labs dating back to the early 2000's indicate you've always had a higher than normal estrogen, your test to estrogen ratio should be 10 to 1, right now its 8 to 1. How about we stop the test cyp cold turkey right now, start you on the anastrazole and cialis, and in about 4 months once your testes are back online we will do new labs. Then, chances are you'll only need a little clomid to keep your natural testosterone levels in the 300s which is YOUR normal and you wont need injections and you won't have any ED."

I told him I've been living with low 300s total test since I was about 22 years old, 36 now, and I LOVE how I feel now, can he please just help me with the side effects? My gym gains are finally happening/no more plateaus that last months on end, my libido is awesome despite the ironic ED issues, my energy is great, my mood is great, my wife is loving the new me, my quality of life is dramatically better! My total test peak is around 800 ng/dl at 200mg weekly, why shouldn't I be allowed to make the informed decision to be a better yet still within normal ranges man? Why can females get plastic surgery for looks? Why can guys take hair loss stuff that messes up their hormone balance?

He replied- "your HTPA just wasn't designed for a lot of test, not everyone can be strong and have muscles" He also told me that his previous duty station was San Diego and he saw a lot of Navy SEALS that had total test in the 300s and did their (endurance athlete) jobs just fine. Next he said "blah blah prostate risk, polycythemia, blah blah." -Not verbatim



So for the next week or so I'm in a holding pattern. If I get accepted to the job I applied for, I plan to take one last stab at the hospital in that state. If they play dumb, off to the sponsors of this site I go. I'm extremely tempted to purchase AI and self medicate but I've got a wife and children to support so the jail risk outweighs the reward for me... If I don't get the job, I'll be moving down under and from what it sounds like I'll likely have to go cold turkey and get re-tested there unless there is an IMT-type company in AU.

Or maybe the dude is actually on to something, maybe my natural test levels would be solid if I wasn't always higher estrogen? I told him I've been on since April, I can feel that my testes have shrunk noticeably. But he thinks since I've only got 7 months in, I've only dipped my toe in the pool and I could still be "saved". If my body has always been over-enthusiastic with aromatizing, maybe all I ever needed was AI?

What do you men think?

 

[SJC]

I quit going to the DR years ago. I found out they know jack shit. Buy yourself some Pharm grade Test or UGL if you prefer and get some Pharm grade aromisin. Blood work is easy to get every 3 months for $60.

Jail seriously jail?? Come on man! If you re that worried about jail then buy from RUI. Liquid stane. its a research chem and not illegal. you need to get your E2 down.

 

[bigjohn650]

SJC- I did consider buying from a site sponsor, but I failed to see how the liquid form of a given compound is to be administered...does a lab rat drink the liquid or does it get injected?

 

[blakey]

SJC- I did consider buying from a site sponsor, but I failed to see how the liquid form of a given compound is to be administered...does a lab rat drink the liquid or does it get injected?

Orally mate just squirt it in your mouth
Like sjc said no worries with legality issues its a research chemical not illegal