New Lab Results...Very troubling

[totalburnout]

Lets stick to the 50mg E3D and the 250iu hCG for a little bit. Are you on E3D or E3.5D, just for clarification sake. Either way, that's a fairly low dosage - one that I personally didn't even feel when I began TRT.

Its good that you're asking questions, exploring possibilities, and getting involved. Before we jump to conclusions, lets take a look at estrogen. Have we gotten ANY new estrogen readings back yet after stopping adex? Your T, Free T, and SHBG all look like very desirable figures (for most) right now - but that means nothing if your E2 is 100 or is 2.

Once we get that figure back, we can make a game plan. Keep in mind, you may have gone from super low estrogen from when you were taking adex, to super high estrogen now that you've stopped the adex. Symptoms feel similar between high and low estrogen.

Stressing and driving those cortisol levels higher certainly won't help the situation here.

Can you do me a favor and get a full 8 hours of sleep, eat 3-6 well rounded meals a deal, and go to the gym at least 3 times this week - and report back how you feel?

If you change nothing else, please try to get some additional sleep. If you are restless and you NEED it (if you can fall asleep without aid than do so) take a small dose of melatonin to help regulate your sleep. Gaba may also be an ideal natural supplement for you if you're having issues with being tired and anxiety.

With all this said, I don't want to pump you full of more drugs. You probably dont need the preg and I would personally discontinue use as you're adding more and more compounds.

 

[willnorthwest]

thanks for all the suggestions guys, it's good to know that Im not alone. I went for bloodwork early this morning, and should have labs ready by 2morrow or tuesday. I will report my labs as soon as i get them.

totalburnout.....every 3days. falling asleep is usually not the issue. for the past few months, I have been able to fall asleep, however, I have been waking up 3 or 4 times a night. I dont feel rested when I awake in the mornings. I did re-test this morning for Estradiol and Estradiol Sensitive, so Im interested to see what no Adex for a month does to me.

 

[totalburnout]

We may be looking at a sleep apnea issue here. Have you ever been told by a wife/girlfriend that they've heard you stop breathing or never completely fall asleep through the night?

If its not apnea, melatonin may very well be a great option for you. Melatonin helps to regulate your sleep cycle. Pop some two hours before bed and hopefully be able to sleep without waking. Have you ever tried melatonin or gaba?

All these symptoms go hand in hand but also be away that high E2 can lead to restlessness and hot flashes.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Lets stick to the 50mg E3D and the 250iu hCG for a little bit. Are you on E3D or E3.5D, just for clarification sake. Either way, that's a fairly low dosage - one that I personally didn't even feel when I began TRT.

I find it laughable that you are playing doctor and you didn't even know what anastrozole was lol

Now you are an expert on protocols with it

 

[willnorthwest]

the-det-oak.....i dont think he's playing doctor man. I just think he saying what he would do if he were in my situation. I appreciate everyone's input on my thread, including totalburnout's. I dont think it's very wise to discourage people from posting on this forum just because they might not be as informed as you, and I do know that you are indeed very informed.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

the-det-oak.....i dont think he's playing doctor man. I just think he saying what he would do if he were in my situation. I appreciate everyone's input on my thread, including totalburnout's. I dont think it's very wise to discourage people from posting on this forum just because they might not be as informed as you, and I do know that you are indeed very informed.

I am sorry bro but I have to disagree, just because I don't post a lot does not mean I do not read almost all the threads in here, the guy is new to testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and yea everyone should share their opinion, he post's like he is very informed but he is not, just last week he was asking what anastrozole is and now he is on here telling everyone how to take it?

I am sorry but I have a problem with that.

It would be different if he said " well I have read a lot of people do this, I just started and this is what I do"

You guys have no clue how many people read these threads and never post a word, to the un-knowing poster it looks like he has a ton of experience and he and people he knows have went through the same thing and he has a good idea of what works and what doesn't, but since I read all the threads I know this is not the case.

So sorry but I disagree strongly.

 

[willnorthwest]

okay guys...got some recent bloodwork done. Just when I thought I was starting to figure things out....BAM....another issue. This lab was taken one day before my next scheduled cyp injection, and immediately before my hcG injection of 250mg.
RBC 5.58 4.14-5.8
Hemoglobin 16.0 12.6-17.7
Hematocrit 48.2 37.5-51.0
TSH 1.090 .450-12.0
Thryoxine (T4) 7.7 4.5-12.0
Triiodothryonine(T3)113 71-180
T4, Free (Direct) 1.26 .82-1.77
DHEA-S 298.3 160-449
Pregnenolone 79 <151
Testosterone, Serum 770 348-1197
Estradiol 48 7.6-42.6 HIGH
Estradiol Sensitive 24 3-70
Iron 110 40-155
Ferritin, Serum 13 30-400 LOW

Well, it seems like I got my E2 issue under control for now. I have not taken any Arimidex for over a month, so maybe I just dont need it. Im also happy with my T level. My DHEA-S has risen since my last lab, as I have been taking 25mg DHEA and 50mg Pregnenolone daily, so Im happy with that. The ONE thing that is glaring out at me is my Ferritin. While my Iron level seems to be healthy, my Ferritin is extremely low. Im trying to figure out what this means. Does this mean I have an Iron absorption issue? Even though my Iron level is decent, can I still have an Iron problem? Im gonna fax these results over to my new testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) doc who is also a GP, so hopefully he has some answers. In the meantime, a little guidance from the knowledgeable forum members would be great. Im still dealing with some fatigue issues, so maybe this might be part of the problem

 

[Megatron28]

Below is what wikipedia says about low Ferritin. What has your ferritin typically ben in the past?

If the ferritin level is low, there is a risk for lack of iron, which could lead to anemia.

In the setting of anemia, low serum ferritin is the most specific lab test for iron deficiency anemia.[20] However it is less sensitive, since its levels are increased in the blood by infection or any type of chronic inflammation,[21] and these conditions may convert what would otherwise be a low level of ferritin from lack of iron, into a value in the normal range. For this reason, low ferritin levels carry more information than those in the normal range.

Low ferritin may also indicate hypothyroidism, vitamin C deficiency or celiac disease

In adolescents and teenagers, ferritin levels that are low but yet above those causing anemia and sickness (12[22] to 50 ng/mL) may cause symptoms of restless legs syndrome.[23]

A falsely low blood ferritin (equivalent to a false positive test) is very uncommon,[21] but can result from a hook effect of the measuring tools in extreme cases.[24]

Vegetarianism may contribute to low levels of serum ferritin, with one study finding 40% of vegetarians tested with low serum ferritin levels [25]

 

[Megatron28]

Oh... Aren't you glad you listened to us and didn't start taking adex like they are skittles again?

 

[willnorthwest]

mega....Ive actually never tested my Ferritin level before. This is the first time. Frustrating to say the least. If low Ferritin is indicative of low Iron, then how come my Iron serum level is normal and not low? Also, if healthy levels of Iron are necessary for Hemoglobin production, then how come my Hemoglobin is good?

 

[Megatron28]

It actually says that is ferritin is low that there is a RISK for low iron and anemia. It doesn't mean you will always have low iron when your ferritin is low.

I was more interested - for you - in the part that talked about low ferritin possibly indicating hypothyroidism, vitamin c deficiency and celiac disease as possibilities.

 

[willnorthwest]

Yes MEga......I am glad I listened to yall about the Adex!!! lol Im gonna get some Iron Supplements and see if it helps. I must have some type of bad absorption issue. As far as hypothyroidism is concerned, I dont really know how to interpret my Thryoid results. Could you give me an idea, based on my lab results, the condition of my thyroid?

Any recomendations on a brand of Iron Supplement? Dosage? Frequency?

 

[Megatron28]

Yes MEga......I am glad I listened to yall about the Adex!!! lol Im gonna get some Iron Supplements and see if it helps. I must have some type of bad absorption issue. As far as hypothyroidism is concerned, I dont really know how to interpret my Thryoid results. Could you give me an idea, based on my lab results, the condition of my thyroid?

Any recomendations on a brand of Iron Supplement? Dosage? Frequency?

I am definitely not versed in optimal thyroid levels. Sorry.

Your iron seems fine. Too much iron is bad for men. I would be very cautious about supplementing more.

Have you looked into vitamin C and celiac disease? Austinite just posted a great thread about vitamin C and some other supplements. Give it a read.

 

[halfwit]

You also have to remember that another side effect of testosterone supplementation is that your body is making more blood cells. As the main component of these blood cells is iron, it's very likely that your ferritin (think of it as a warehouse for iron) is being depleted while you are maintaining a working level of iron. This is my non-MD opinion on your results, and I think as long as you're eating plenty of iron rich foods, just look for a good multi that has iron in it. Hopefully your doc can help to fill in some of these blanks for you, and you can share with us.

Thyroid is another area I just know the basics, but:

TSH 1.090 .450-12.0
Thryoxine (T4) 7.7 4.5-12.0
Triiodothryonine(T3)113 71-180
T4, Free (Direct) 1.26 .82-1.77

Looks like you have a pretty healthy thyroid to me, but I would keep an eye on that TSH. TSH is a guideline that most docs (in my experience) use, and lower TSH usually indicates moving towards hyperthyroidism where a higher TSH indicates hypo. From what I've been told, between .4-.9 can indicate you are slightly hyperthyroidic (which doesn't fit your symptoms imo) and 5+ would by heading towards hypo territory. Wish I could be more help here, but I don't want to give bad advice as I'm not truly versed in these areas as much as I'd like to be.

 

[willnorthwest]

Mega.....From what I have read, if you have low Ferritin, you need to take Iron supplements, regardless of your Iron Serum level.

 

[willnorthwest]

halfwit.....thanks for the interpretation.

 

[willnorthwest]

"What happens if your ferritin level is too low?

If your doctor tells you that you have low ferritin levels, you'll probably be placed on iron supplements to correct your iron deficiency anemia and replenish ferritin stores. It can take up to four months for ferritin levels to return to normal after iron supplements are started, so don't expect to see immediate results.

How do you know when your ferritin levels have returned to normal?

Blood tests are usually repeated to recheck levels after four to six months of iron supplementation.

A low ferritin level is usually easily treated with iron supplements and dietary changes and should cause no longer term problems if corrected."Kristie Leong, MD What Does it Mean When You Have a Low Ferritin Level? - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

 

[willnorthwest]

Dr Mariano from 2009

Ferritin is the most important measure of iron. Iron in the body is mostly in hemoglobin and myoglobin. However, iron is also used by every single cell in the body as part of many enzymes. Many of the enzymes which participate in the citric acid cycle to generate ATP - the basic energy storage unit in the body - in mitochondria have iron in their structure. Ferritin gives one an idea of how much iron is available to the rest of the body's cells for metabolic purposes.

Without iron, cells are significantly impaired in metabolic activity. They can't make enough ATP to do their activities. Thus, optimizing hormone, neurotransmitters and other signals doesn't work very well since they are only signals. They are signals to trigger cellular activities. But these activities cannot be done without ATP.
An optimum iron level as measured by Ferritin in men is about 150. In women, it is about 100-120. These are mid-range values. A ferritin of 75, in one study, was found to be the lower end of normal for senior citizens. They can be even develop iron-deficiency anemia at that level of iron.
Excessive iron is dangerous. It is highly oxidizing. It will also trap nitric oxide - used among other things to reduce blood pressure and improve blood flow. It is destructive to tissues - causing cell death in the testes, ovaries, thyroid gland, liver, brain, etc. In testing Ferritin, I have surprisingly found a large number of patients, who have been treatment resistant, to have hemochromocytosis - a disease of excessive iron storage. It usually occurs in about 1 in 200-400 Caucasian men

In men, I like to see a Ferritin of about 150. In women, about 100-120. Otherwise, cellular metabolism and energy production would be impaired.

 

[1693]

Will, so you probably shouldn't donate blood....you need to keep your hematocrit down by lowering your test dose possibly and any other means if you have to...it is looking good now though.

Low ferritin can also mean bleeding internally can't it?

 

[Megatron28]

Here is a good post with info about the thyroid.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...4-do-i-have-hypothyroidism-help-out-here.html