New labs, and some questions.

[03ACE]

Hey all,

You might remember that I started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) about 8 weeks ago, and felt awesome for about the first 6 weeks. The last 2 I have felt pretty bad. I went in and had labs done to spot any potential troubles. I am 38, 5'9" ~230#. Doc scripted me for 200mg Test Cyp EOW. I started with, and am continuing to break it up into 100mg EW.

He ran the following tests:

CBC - Auto Diff
Comp Metabolic Panel
Lipid Panel
CK, Total
PSA
Testosterone, Total
TSH
T4, Free
T3, Free
Estradiol

To save a little time/space I'll list the things most folks do here, as the CBC/CMP has a ton of shit on it.

Test, Total - 719 ng/dL
PSA - 0.33 ng/mL
TSH - 2.742 uIU/mL
T4, Free - 0.94 ng/dL
T3, Free - 3.36 pg/mL
CK, Total - 280 IU/L - Had this checked due to being on Atorvastatin for high Cholesterol
Estradiol - 40 pg/mL - their reference range shows 40-53 pg/mL for men. WTF?

They did not test LH, FSH, SHBG, and say they do not/can not test Free Testosterone....

I still think my E2 is too high based on the fact that I don't feel great, libido is just so-so, and I just want to collapse on the couch until bedtime every night, like I was before I started TRT. Of course, since the test shows it at the bottom of the reference range, my Dr. thinks it is awesome....

 

[wolfman010]

When were these done in relation to your last shot? And is test all you're on?

 

[ceomuscle58]

Hey all,

You might remember that I started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) about 8 weeks ago, and felt awesome for about the first 6 weeks. The last 2 I have felt pretty bad. I went in and had labs done to spot any potential troubles. I am 38, 5'9" ~230#. Doc scripted me for 200mg Test Cyp EOW. I started with, and am continuing to break it up into 100mg EW.

He ran the following tests:

CBC - Auto Diff
Comp Metabolic Panel
Lipid Panel
CK, Total
PSA
Testosterone, Total
TSH
T4, Free
T3, Free
Estradiol

To save a little time/space I'll list the things most folks do here, as the CBC/CMP has a ton of shit on it.

Test, Total - 719 ng/dL
PSA - 0.33 ng/mL
TSH - 2.742 uIU/mL
T4, Free - 0.94 ng/dL
T3, Free - 3.36 pg/mL
CK, Total - 280 IU/L - Had this checked due to being on Atorvastatin for high Cholesterol
Estradiol - 40 pg/mL - their reference range shows 40-53 pg/mL for men. WTF?

They did not test LH, FSH, SHBG, and say they do not/can not test Free Testosterone....

I still think my E2 is too high based on the fact that I don't feel great, libido is just so-so, and I just want to collapse on the couch until bedtime every night, like I was before I started TRT. Of course, since the test shows it at the bottom of the reference range, my Dr. thinks it is awesome....

Man I would see if you can get your doctor to up your dosage to 150mg of Test. Cyp every week!

Also based on your symptoms I would want to get the E2 levels between 20-30 pg/mL so I would see if he can dose you 0.5 mg of Arimidex 2 times a week before this gets out of control!

Now by recommending this I'm assuming you had the labs done the day right before your weekly shot?

I would pitch having him prescribe you the "Anti E" as a precautionary measure! Also show him the research on keep E2 dialed in between 20-30 pg/mL!

 

[03ACE]

Ah, I knew I would forget something! I pinned on Sunday evening as per the usual, and blood was taken on Friday afternoon after fasting for ~18 hours. Test is all I am on atm, other than the previously mentioned statin for my cholesterol. He said when I started that he wanted my total test to be 600-700. I am concerned that he thinks if it ever hits that number, I am good. Having done a good bit of research on this, I know better. I get the feeling he will be reluctant to prescribe me a pill whose primary labeled usage is for fighting breast cancer in women, just because I think it is a good idea. That was why I was concerned with the reference range their lab stated. Anyone have a link to real medical studies showing the optimal E2 range in men (particularly on TRT)? I'm not going to get far bringing him a printout from an anti-aging clinic's website, if you know what I mean. I have been searching pubmed, but haven't come across much yet.

 

[ceomuscle58]

Estrogen Balance is Critical to Aging Men
"A study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) measured blood estradiol in 501 men with chronic heart failure. Compared to men in the balanced estrogen quintile, men in the highest quintile (serum estradiol levels of 37.40 pg/mL or greater) were significantly (133%) more likely to die. Those in the lowest estradiol quintile (serum estradiol levels under 12.90 pg/mL) had a 317% increased death rate compared to the balanced group. The men in the balanced quintile***8212;with the fewest deaths***8212;had serum estradiol levels between 21.80 and 30.11 pg/mL (Ewa et al 2009). This is the ideal range that Life Extension has long recommended male members strive for.

An epidemic problem we at Life Extension observe in aging male members is insufficient free testosterone, i.e., less than 20 - 25 pg/mL of serum. When accompanied by excess estradiol (over 30 pg/mL of serum), this can signal excess aromatase enzyme activity."

Male Hormone Restoration - Testosterone, Testosterone Levels, Testosterone Therapy - Life Extension Health Concern

 

[03ACE]

I did see that one, thanks. I will keep it in mind, but ultimately, the study was in men with chronic heart failure, and the people referring to it are an anti-aging clinic. I still need to either get him to order a test for my "free test", or go get one myself.

 

[ceomuscle58]

I did see that one, thanks. I will keep it in mind, but ultimately, the study was in men with chronic heart failure, and the people referring to it are an anti-aging clinic. I still need to either get him to order a test for my "free test", or go get one myself.

If he refuses I'd try an over the counter Anti E supplement!

 

[03ACE]

Yeah, that is the plan if I can't convince him that 40 pg/mL is too high. Anyone have suggestions for good (preferably cheap) OTC AIs?

 

[ceomuscle58]

PES Erase (90 caps): Discount Erase Supplements

Erase is a good OTC Aromatase inhibitor (AI) I just don't know how you would dose it on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) or TRT. Cashout or Adrian could probably give better advise with proper OTC Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dosage for your situation. I also have heard good things about Nolvadex XT by Gaspari but its hard to find!

 

[kaoz123]

I use to use AIFM good stuff. Or u could just get an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) from a sponser.

 

[chronological]

Hey all,

You might remember that I started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) about 8 weeks ago, and felt awesome for about the first 6 weeks. The last 2 I have felt pretty bad. I went in and had labs done to spot any potential troubles. I am 38, 5'9" ~230#. Doc scripted me for 200mg Test Cyp EOW. I started with, and am continuing to break it up into 100mg EW.

Kinda similar to me. I'm on week 6. I was 200mg EOW and just moved to 200mg E10D. I suspect that may get to E7D.

But can I ask you to say more about your "...felt awesome for about the first 6 weeks"? Exactly what did you experience? Was it obvious enough that you're sure it wasn't just a placebo effect (i.e. you expected the T to make you feel better so you felt better)?

I ask because so far I'm feeling nothing. I may as well be injecting saline.

 

[03ACE]

Chrono, for sure I thought it might be placebo affect for the first week or so, but I found I could get up after just a few hours sleep and feel "awake", I felt focused at work, and my wife (for the first time in about 10 years) said "I don't know about you taking this stuff, I don't think I am gonna be able to keep up with you!" For me, it was night and day starting just a couple days after my 1st injection.

 

[Schweddy]

I am a few weeks into this so I thought I'd chime in as well. 3 days after my first shot I had more energy and was was in a much better mood. Anxiety was gone. I had some difficulty w/ my 2nd pin and didn't get enough. My T level plummeted to 145 - lowest ever by far. I could literally feel the trough coming on. Big thanks to whomever posted the how to inject video. I switched to weekly. Pin #3 was this morning. I'm on 80mL test cyp E7D so we will see...