Newbie: 3rd cycle options

[Body_weight02]

1st thanks for the add...Stats are as follows: 33 yrs, 5'11", 172lbs, 17% bf (on scale), 4 yrs training. Starting stats were 150lb, 22%bf
1st cycle: Sus 500mg-wk x 9wks, .5mg adex 2x wk, 500iu hcg-wk x 10wks, pct clomid/navaladex
2nd cycle: Enanthate 500mg-wk x 11wks, Deca 300mg-wk x 8wks, .25 adex 2x wk, 500iu hcg-wk x 12wks, clomid/navaladex pct 6wks.
With keeping my E control and pct roughly the same, I'm curious about what I might run for my 3rd cycle. My goal is to land somewhere around 177-180lbs at 14%bf or less. I do a lot of static holds and body weight training so getting a lot heavier makes it more difficult. I am also debating on trying a physique competition at 35, but that would be more than 2 years out.
Thanks again

 

[Milton]

what is your current bf%?

 

[Body_weight02]

17% on scale...haven't gotten a true measurement

 

[Body_weight02]

I'll admit I didn't make the most of 1st cycle. I have always been a very light eater and didn't have my diet lined out before starting. I also have E issues I contribute to the research Chem lab adex and pct gear not being good. My last cycle I found real adex and pct gear and could tell a major difference. I also did much better on my diet. I ended up dropping 3% bf while holding onto 8-10lb. I'm currently 12wks post pct but won't start my next cycle until March of next year due to required labs for my job.

 

[Body_weight02]

After looking at several pics on here of members claiming to be between 10-15%bf I may be leaner than the 17% my scale says.

 

[oldmusclemike]

1st thanks for the add...Stats are as follows: 33 yrs, 5'11", 172lbs, 17% bf (on scale), 4 yrs training. Starting stats were 150lb, 22%bf
1st cycle: Sus 500mg-wk x 9wks, .5mg adex 2x wk, 500iu hcg-wk x 10wks, pct clomid/navaladex
2nd cycle: Enanthate 500mg-wk x 11wks, Deca 300mg-wk x 8wks, .25 adex 2x wk, 500iu hcg-wk x 12wks, clomid/navaladex pct 6wks.
With keeping my E control and pct roughly the same, I'm curious about what I might run for my 3rd cycle. My goal is to land somewhere around 177-180lbs at 14%bf or less. I do a lot of static holds and body weight training so getting a lot heavier makes it more difficult. I am also debating on trying a physique competition at 35, but that would be more than 2 years out.
Thanks again

Hey bud, welcome to the board, glad you came on in... Ok seems you are ready. I hope you are well educated in the safe use of AAS, and it seems that you have done homework :smile:

YOU had a good cycle or two there and are holding some gains I think. Two years out is well enough time and is a long way out but good planning and I hope you continue working toward that goal.

Yes you have to get your BF% down to 12 -15% to really begin the , say cutting cycle. Some say tat's not low enough but for the intermediate guy it will do. Your endeavor will be somewhat slow going but you are at a good age to do this efficiently. I was 36 and hardened up good at that age. Your muscle maturity helps

I suggest you lessen up with the static pumps for now because that will not produce much size. IT is good , just like posing practice to harden and teach you muscles to bring out striations and separation with slight movements. However a full fatigue and can effect you lifting heavy for overload training. Go a few months without the static movements and lift mote to heavy failure and beyond with some negatives. All this knowing your limits.

When you get closer to end of cycle you might add in the statics with some posing movements and HOLDS again learning how to , say " work it" you will gain form , definition because you will learn how to do it. It gets tough to say the least, and lol it can increase your soreness.. hee hee I love it.
Good luck

 

[Body_weight02]

Thanks for the feedback. In regards to my next cycle I was thinking about a 12-14wk 500mg test
10-12wk 300mg deca
Possible anavar or winstol?
Pct and E control the same
I liked the low dose deca for lubrication (I have partial tears in both rotator cuffs)...is the anavar or winstrol needed? Is there a better option or mix for lean bulk gains? (I know that term is taboo). Id like to keep things as simple as possible, would I be better just to stick with the test/deca and let my diet do the work?

 

[oldmusclemike]

Thanks for the feedback. In regards to my next cycle I was thinking about a 12-14wk 500mg test
10-12wk 300mg deca
Possible anavar or winstol?
Pct and E control the same
I liked the low dose deca for lubrication (I have partial tears in both rotator cuffs)...is the anavar or winstrol needed? Is there a better option or mix for lean bulk gains? (I know that term is taboo). Id like to keep things as simple as possible, would I be better just to stick with the test/deca and let my diet do the work?

Yes , yes and Yes Listen unless you are going to lean out completely for a true cutting physique , just ley your diet do the work along with you training routines. It is cheaper and less complicated. Just run the two and so be it.

Then you can concentrate on your routine and the "MIRROR" . As you lean out do some posing the best you can. Play in front of the mirror and learn how to bring out your muscles, the striations and separations, if you get lean enough.

Now there is simple as you asked.... Remember be patient and train hard it takes several weeks and when you don't think you are getting anywhere, push in a few more weeks and you might get surprised at what just some test and Deca "lube" can do with the right diet and training. I like the 14 week cycle.....

Good luck , but please stick with us, maybe start a log so we can follow some of your gains.

 

[jp4355]

While Deca is a Good Mass Builder.

You should consider doing EQ or Boldenone Undecylenate.

A 16 Week Cycle with EQ and Test E, you could make some Nice Lean Gains.
EQ won't Bloat you up.
You could toss in some Anavar or Tbol as an Oral Kickstart, cause neither cause Water Retention.

You want to stay away from Winstrol, as it Dries Out your Joints.
And if you already have some Partial Tears in your Rotator Cuffs.
Winny would make you feel Terrible.......................................... JP

 

[oldmusclemike]

While Deca is a Good Mass Builder.

You should consider doing EQ or Boldenone Undecylenate.

A 16 Week Cycle with EQ and Test E, you could make some Nice Lean Gains.
EQ won't Bloat you up.
You could toss in some Anavar or Tbol as an Oral Kickstart, cause neither cause Water Retention.

You want to stay away from Winstrol, as it Dries Out your Joints.
And if you already have some Partial Tears in your Rotator Cuffs.
Winny would make you feel Terrible.......................................... JP

This ^^ is good advice EXEPT for adding in more compounds. I just don't understand why everyone thinks that they need more and more compounds. OP is not on a pro- circuit and has not been lifting and using AAS for the last 10 plus years.

He and his body will only be able to synthesis so much and the fact is that just the two compounds and correct diet will surf ice quite adequately.

Also OP is at 17% BF and diet as we all should know is the key. Simple Simon says what? Yepper keep it simple. Let the simple fact as to what Steroids do for the body in building muscle and the added attributes of buring fat tissue while intense traning be the rule. Hence let the body work with simple compounds and diet ( I say again) do it's thing.

OP is not going into a show all the finishing compounds and or kickers as Var , Tbol etc.. are not needed. Let the test and EQ come on as they do as OP gets his diet working to begin the loss of BF%. WE know he needs no finishing drugs as Winstrol or Var since it is going to be a task just to get his BF% down to 10, 11 % .

NOTE: As we speak of using AAS as safe as possible , I drive home the thought of using the least amounts of Steroids. Test and Eq would make for a good combination and that's all.

OP throw in / include some aerobics after your workouts a few times a week. A little more if you can on days off. But get GOOD REST.

Please get back and let us know what you decide by laying out your COMPLETE protocol and start a log when you begin so we can see your progress.

Good Luck

 

[Body_weight02]

Thanks again for the replies. I'm gonna
just stick to test and deca or EQ. Only reason I hadn't considered EQ before was I understood it to actually make your connective tissue more brittle and it also needed to be ran so much longer to really make use of it. Long cycles worry me about recovery...I have no desire to start TRT at 33.
It will be late Feb or early March before I start. Sometime between now and then I'll get labs done and start a log detailing my cycle and diet to get it tweaked

 

[jp4355]

Thanks again for the replies. I'm gonna
just stick to test and deca or EQ. Only reason I hadn't considered EQ before was I understood it to actually make your connective tissue more brittle and it also needed to be ran so much longer to really make use of it. Long cycles worry me about recovery...I have no desire to start TRT at 33.
It will be late Feb or early March before I start. Sometime between now and then I'll get labs done and start a log detailing my cycle and diet to get it tweaked

EQ doesn't make your Ligaments and Tendons more Brittle.
If anything, it helps, as it increases Red Blood Cell Production and Blood Volume, which can aid in tissue healing.
Red Blood Cells carry Oxygen and Nutrients to the Nerves/Ligaments/Tendons/Bones.

And as far as a Longer Cycle Shutting you down more than a Shorter Cycle ~ Nonsense.
Once you are Shut Down, you are Shut Down.
There's No Clinical Data proving otherwise !

EQ is a Very Mild Compound, so the Longer Cycle isn't any more difficult for the body to handle.
So long as your General Health is Good.
But if it's Not, you shouldn't be doing any AAS.................................... JP
P.S.
Deca and EQ have the same exact Half-Life of 14 Days.

 

[scorob777]

Only reason I hadn't considered EQ before was I understood it to actually make your connective tissue more brittle

Do you think that's why race horses use it? Nonsense.

Now the issues about long cycles, and long time to bleed down prior to recovery, those are real. But, not much different from deca - 15 day half life vs. 14, pretty much the same. And deca has some metabolites that hinder recovery too.

You just need to plan for it, and plan to run your test several weeks after stopping either deca or EQ.

 

[oldmusclemike]

EQ doesn't make your Ligaments and Tendons more Brittle.
If anything, it helps, as it increases Red Blood Cell Production and Blood Volume, which can aid in tissue healing.
Red Blood Cells carry Oxygen and Nutrients to the Nerves/Ligaments/Tendons/Bones.

And as far as a Longer Cycle Shutting you down more than a Shorter Cycle ~ Nonsense.
Once you are Shut Down, you are Shut Down.
There's No Clinical Data proving otherwise !

EQ is a Very Mild Compound, so the Longer Cycle isn't any more difficult for the body to handle.
So long as your General Health is Good.
But if it's Not, you shouldn't be doing any AAS.................................... JP
P.S.
Deca and EQ have the same exact Half-Life of 14 Days.

This ^^^ is right on.... I don't know where you get you MIS-INFORMATION about EQ , OP but You need to read, re-read and read more about the compounds you choose.

If your connective tissues etc.. are not in good shape over years of correct AAS use and lifting then you need not continue with the us of AAS.

Also I suggest to you that you learn what damage or what less damage using EQ can have if only running for a cycle and not sustained abused use. So many of you guys wanna get so damn technical beyond the point of realism. If so , the brittleness you are speaking of a totally different activity and synergism that is JUST not gonna happen over night or in a 10-16 week cycle /use.

This theory you bring to the table is exactly what I speak of when these guys think they are gonna bulk for a few weeks then cut and use 3,4 5 compounds in a 12-14 week cycle. As I say all the time, our bodies are not digitally active. Everything we do here concerning BB'ing and PL 'ing building / growing new MM takes time.

By the time anything can get so brittle to hurt you the cycle will be over. Again all this synergism take more time thern you know.

Get in the know of the compounds for your purpose and goal. Read up extensively and choose what is best for your goal as well as consideration to long term goal. If you get wind, (bro-science shit) about something then research it. Use Google, ask questions on here and on Google and you might learn much more. So then you / others might not come in here and make statements like " I have heard it said, or they say" get the facts they are out there, Then you can come in and get to hear the experienced version of the facts.

Read up on your compounds and that means from more then one source. There is old school data , and more modern researched new data with included long term experience.

Good luck

 

[Body_weight02]

My "mis-understanding" with the EQ and connective tissue was that the increased collagen production made the tissue more dense yet lacked the component to give it its elasticity, making it more brittle...but if I'm wrong then thanks for the correction.
I realize I'm "green" as far as a AA user but I have logged a "few" hours of research, hence why I'm on looking toward my 3rd cycle at 33 instead of 23. And I can see where getting questions like: how much test? orals only? do I need pct or AI?...could get very old but what is the purpose of the forum if not for the help? True there is tons of info online about AA's but it very inconsistent and sorting out the truth is difficult. Hence is also why I don't give advice on this forum or any other or at the local gym about AA's unless I feel confident I know what I'm talking about.
If we all had 20 years of experience with AA use to draw info from then there would be no need for groups like this.
So likely if someone, such as myself, makes
statements that are false it probably came from someone off a forum or online article preaching it as truth. I'm not over here in the corner crying cause I got my feelings hurt, I understand getting a little beating by senior members is part of it but don't see
how I get labeled as 1 of "you guys" spreading the mis-information

 

[scorob777]

1st thanks for the add...Stats are as follows: 33 yrs, 5'11", 172lbs, 17% bf (on scale), 4 yrs training. Starting stats were 150lb, 22%bf
1st cycle: Sus 500mg-wk x 9wks, .5mg adex 2x wk, 500iu hcg-wk x 10wks, pct clomid/navaladex
2nd cycle: Enanthate 500mg-wk x 11wks, Deca 300mg-wk x 8wks, .25 adex 2x wk, 500iu hcg-wk x 12wks, clomid/navaladex pct 6wks.
With keeping my E control and pct roughly the same, I'm curious about what I might run for my 3rd cycle. My goal is to land somewhere around 177-180lbs at 14%bf or less. I do a lot of static holds and body weight training so getting a lot heavier makes it more difficult. I am also debating on trying a physique competition at 35, but that would be more than 2 years out.
Thanks again

Seems like you pretty well nailed it on your first couple of cycles. I could nitpick on the first cycle 9 weeks is too short for sust, and second cycle 8 weeks is too short for deca, but those are pretty minor points. You had the AI and the HCG nailed, and a good PCT. So where to from here seems to be your question.

You could think about 400 test for 16 weeks, 600 boldenone for 12 weeks, 0.5 adex E3D, 500 HCG/wk with your PCT. That should be both clean and effective, and give enough time for the boldenone to clear for a successful PCT. I haven't done exactly this, but it's on my list to try sometime in the future.

Or you might like 300 test 16wks, 600 deca 12 wks, 0.25 adex EOD - same on the rest. I did just that and liked it.

I can vouch that putting on more weight makes body weight exercise A LOT harder.

Regarding the EQ - I've read all the same articles you have about boosting collagen synthesis. They talk about test helping, but only up to a point - so don't use more than 200 mg/wk. They talk about boldenone and nandrolone both being very beneficial, and give some percentage boosts. I also recall the issue about brittleness, and some conjecture about how the new collagen was laid down - thicker but weaker due to linear nature vs. more ductile due to cross linking. The thing that eventually struck me was I read that same article on a whole bunch of different sites, and then read others that referred back to that one, then read some others that said the whole thing was bunk. Left me realizing it is just one viewpoint, and reading a ton of articles that link back to a single source is incestuous and gives a false sense of credibility. The reason I made the comment about horse racing people using boldenone is that the stuff works, it is great for bone density, bone healing, and general connective tissue strength and healing. Only downsides are it supresses natural test production, and can drive RBCs and hematocrit crazy in some people. I also like deca for all the same reasons, though it has issues around prolactin and deca dick. Seems like no free lunch... too bad...

 

[oldmusclemike]

My "mis-understanding" with the EQ and connective tissue was that the increased collagen production made the tissue more dense yet lacked the component to give it its elasticity, making it more brittle...but if I'm wrong then thanks for the correction.
I realize I'm "green" as far as a AA user but I have logged a "few" hours of research, hence why I'm on looking toward my 3rd cycle at 33 instead of 23. And I can see where getting questions like: how much test? orals only? do I need pct or AI?...could get very old but what is the purpose of the forum if not for the help? True there is tons of info online about AA's but it very inconsistent and sorting out the truth is difficult. Hence is also why I don't give advice on this forum or any other or at the local gym about AA's unless I feel confident I know what I'm talking about.
If we all had 20 years of experience with AA use to draw info from then there would be no need for groups like this.
So likely if someone, such as myself, makes
statements that are false it probably came from someone off a forum or online article preaching it as truth. I'm not over here in the corner crying cause I got my feelings hurt, I understand getting a little beating by senior members is part of it but don't see
how I get labeled as 1 of "you guys" spreading the mis-information

Wow, sorry after reading your post I have to admit I was harsh. I used to really bad at that and have tried much more recently to use more tact.
So in your case right here I apologize for basically being rude. Hopefully you may get past that and filter some of my suggestions and plain input.
If you might have the opportunity to read some of my posts, you might find that I speak dearly, many times as to what the forum is about/purpose beyond entertainment.

TY for the come back
OMM

 

[Body_weight02]

Wow, sorry after reading your post I have to admit I was harsh. I used to really bad at that and have tried much more recently to use more tact.
So in your case right here I apologize for basically being rude. Hopefully you may get past that and filter some of my suggestions and plain input.
If you might have the opportunity to read some of my posts, you might find that I speak dearly, many times as to what the forum is about/purpose beyond entertainment.

TY for the come back
OMM

No hard feeling. Trust me I know my place but I hardly feel I fall into the "gym bro" category downing d-bol only or no AI cycle wondering why I'm losing all my gainz.
I have 1 trusted friend that is very knowledgeable about AA's use that I talk too and I reasearch on my own but I joined this forum in hopes of trying to shorten my search for answers.
Anyway...thanks for the info it is appreciated. I plan to drop most of the calisthenics and get back to banging plates especially once I get back on, to optimize the muscle growth. Before that time (spring next year) I plan to drop my calories below maintenance to cut a little BF. I'll look more into cycle lengths vs recovery and EQ vs deca because apparently I have some outdated or simply wrong info (thanks for the insight)
I honestly figured ya'll would just have busted my balls then kicked me off the forum...lol

 

[casanovaaa]

EQ doesn't make your Ligaments and Tendons more Brittle.
If anything, it helps, as it increases Red Blood Cell Production and Blood Volume, which can aid in tissue healing.
Red Blood Cells carry Oxygen and Nutrients to the Nerves/Ligaments/Tendons/Bones.

And as far as a Longer Cycle Shutting you down more than a Shorter Cycle ~ Nonsense.
Once you are Shut Down, you are Shut Down.
There's No Clinical Data proving otherwise !

EQ is a Very Mild Compound, so the Longer Cycle isn't any more difficult for the body to handle.
So long as your General Health is Good.
But if it's Not, you shouldn't be doing any AAS.................................... JP
P.S.
Deca and EQ have the same exact Half-Life of 14 Days.

very well said, hope op can learn all he can before cyclng so he can do it right.