Next Cycle and Kicker Advice Please

[BulletWoods]

Hey brothers,

I am about to place a gear/supplies order for my next cycle, and would like some input. I have done various cycles of Test Cyp, Test 400, and Deca (Deca broke me out like crazy the only time I ever used it, but I attribute that to poor E2 management, have corrected it and had zero issues on cycle since). I have always been one to keep my cycles simple and very beginner level. This cycle, I would like to add a kick start and looking for your input on what to go with. I am 6'3" 195 lbs and very lean. I am not wanting to throw on a ton of water weight and spend the summer on my boat all puffy, but would like to see some decent gains (12-15 lbs or so kept after PCT) Everything I have read says that Tbol gains are a slower dry build and easier to keep post-cycle than Dbol. I guess the best thing to do is tell you guys what I would like to run and have you suggest any changes.

CYCLE
Kicker: TBD??
Week 1-12: Test E - 600mg per week
Week 1-10: Deca - 300mg per week
Week 1-12: Adex - .5mg EOD
Week 1-12: HCG - 500iu per week
PCT
Week 15-18: Clomid - 50/50/50/50
Week 15-20: Nolva - 40/40/20/20/20/20
On a 3J diet, and have Prami on hand

If you suggest a kicker, please also give input on dosage and what can be expected from it. Thanks for any guidance you can give!

 

[barrysanders]

3 weeks dbol followed by 3 weeks Anadrol=
BOOM

 

[juced_porkchop]

Hey brothers,

I am about to place a gear/supplies order for my next cycle, and would like some input. I have done various cycles of Test Cyp, Test 400, and Deca (Deca broke me out like crazy the only time I ever used it, but I attribute that to poor E2 management, have corrected it and had zero issues on cycle since). I have always been one to keep my cycles simple and very beginner level. This cycle, I would like to add a kick start and looking for your input on what to go with. I am 6'3" 195 lbs and very lean. I am not wanting to throw on a ton of water weight and spend the summer on my boat all puffy, but would like to see some decent gains (12-15 lbs or so kept after PCT) Everything I have read says that Tbol gains are a slower dry build and easier to keep post-cycle than Dbol. I guess the best thing to do is tell you guys what I would like to run and have you suggest any changes.

CYCLE
Kicker: TBD?? Tbol 50mg ed wk1-5
Week 1-14: Test E - 600mg per week
Week 1-12: Deca - 300mg per week
Week 1-14: Adex - .5mg EOD
Week 10-16: HCG - 500iu 2x per week
PCT
Week 18-22: Clomid - 50/50/50/50
Week 18-22: Nolva - 40/40/20/20/20/20
On a 3J diet, and have Prami on hand

If you suggest a kicker, please also give input on dosage and what can be expected from it. Thanks for any guidance you can give!

thats how I would^^^

 

[bigben66]

Yes!!! That cycle has T'bol all over it.... Great gains with an added dryness... you'll love it as a kicker!

 

[BulletWoods]

thats how I would^^^

Yes!!! That cycle has T'bol all over it.... Great gains with an added dryness... you'll love it as a kicker!

Thanks, fellas! If it is good enough for a couple trusted bros, and the East Germans...it is good enough for me. Tbol can be dosed once per day, correct? I have seen some say split into two per day, but most say one dose per day is fine. I have only used Deca once....nice gains but a ton of water retention and BAD acne. Only nervous that even proper E2 management may not prevent the acne. Would you guys suggest just running Tbol and Test on this cycle and see how I do, or go ahead and do Tbol/Test/Deca? Would there be a big difference in gains by adding Deca?
Thanks!

 

[tury694]

I like both the tbol option or the dbol anadrol combo. It all depends on what you want to achieve with the cycle.

 

[New alias]

I recommend front loading with test prop and npp... Maybe Roush could chime in on how to do it properly.

This way thst nandrolone and test will be flowing thru ur veins in about a week

Idk if I like the idea of front loading too hard, with orals for example... I think I rather add in compounds at the end, when my results r peaking.

 

[New alias]

Luck you, I found his post to me:

"Test prop 150 mg eod - weeks 1-5
Test e 600 mg a week - weeks 1-14

Same thing with nandrolones (deca).. Just recently doing this myself but front loading deca with NPP is a no brainer

NPP 300-400 mg a week - weeks 1-8
Deca 400-600 mg a week - weeks 1-14"

 

[Roush]

I was gonna say,, your deca dose is really on the low side, just above a therapeutic dose IMO.. Unless you were front loading the deca with NPP for the first 8 weeks or so. But even then bump it to 400.

Like New Alias mentioned.. You want a kicker to a cycle,, front load and kick start your longer ester compounds with their short ester counter part. (NPP with deca, test prop with test e, tren a with tren e). That's the best kick start IMO cause your getting , for example, the nandrolone kicking in right away, rather then waiting 8 weeks.. Did you see the word I used "kicking in" right away,, yep that is a kick start. Simply adding an oral ain't really a kick start.. But yeah, I'd throw in an oral too

 

[BulletWoods]

I appreciate your input. If my math is correct....between short ester pins, long ester pins, and HCG....that is 7.5 pins per week. Holy pin cushion! I'm not sure I am cut out for that....or could even physically pull it off. I may be better suited waiting for the gear to do its thing.

 

[hiram1st]

I appreciate your input. If my math is correct....between short ester pins, long ester pins, and HCG....that is 7.5 pins per week. Holy pin cushion! I'm not sure I am cut out for that....or could even physically pull it off. I may be better suited waiting for the gear to do its thing.

I'm on my first blast using Tren A ED it takes a little getting used to pinning ED. Just need to rotate injection sites you'll be fine

 

[Roush]

I appreciate your input. If my math is correct....between short ester pins, long ester pins, and HCG....that is 7.5 pins per week. Holy pin cushion! I'm not sure I am cut out for that....or could even physically pull it off. I may be better suited waiting for the gear to do its thing.

Its only for the first part of your cycle until the long esters kick in,, then after that just cruise with the long esters pining twice a week. as for the HCG, that really isn't nothing, a tiny pin in the belly fat.. If you wanted though you could mix your hcg so that .25 Ml equals 500 iu of HCG, and then just mix that in the syringe when you inject your test e.

 

[bigben66]

Guys, don't overcomplicate this for the OP...

Whilst you are putting forward valid arguments... I still think as his first cycle with a kickstart, an oral is the way to go.

No need to get phased by anything you aren't comfortable with.

 

[BulletWoods]

I was gonna say,, your deca dose is really on the low side, just above a therapeutic dose IMO.. Unless you were front loading the deca with NPP for the first 8 weeks or so. But even then bump it to 400.

Like New Alias mentioned.. You want a kicker to a cycle,, front load and kick start your longer ester compounds with their short ester counter part. (NPP with deca, test prop with test e, tren a with tren e). That's the best kick start IMO cause your getting , for example, the nandrolone kicking in right away, rather then waiting 8 weeks.. Did you see the word I used "kicking in" right away,, yep that is a kick start. Simply adding an oral ain't really a kick start.. But yeah, I'd throw in an oral too

My concern with Deca is acne. Last time I was on it, I broke out REALLY Bad....and I live on a lake, so it is EXTREMELY tough with being shirtless until basically October. I was not great with my AI when that happened, but even on just Test Cyp and being diligent about using my AI properly, I still break out to some degree. It makes me lean away from using Deca altogether. It was like a 6 month recovery and some serious scarring last time. Finally in great shape (complexion wise) and don't want to go back there again. Any input there? Big Ben?

 

[Roush]

My concern with Deca is acne. Last time I was on it, I broke out REALLY Bad....and I live on a lake, so it is EXTREMELY tough with being shirtless until basically October. I was not great with my AI when that happened, but even on just Test Cyp and being diligent about using my AI properly, I still break out to some degree. It makes me lean away from using Deca altogether. It was like a 6 month recovery and some serious scarring last time. Finally in great shape (complexion wise) and don't want to go back there again. Any input there? Big Ben?

Drop the Deca all together and just run NPP as your nandro--
If things go bad with the Acne, then you can drop it and it will clear your system way faster then deca. Deca, from what I have read, does not aromatize to a high degree like test does, but it has the propensity towards causing your test to aromatize to a further degree.. **

so , keeping up with your AI on a test/deca cycle is very very important. Spikes in your blood levels and estrogen is a very probable reason that you got acne really bad last time..


** I don't know if this is because deca binds more strongly to the receptor, , thus causing more free 'unbound' testosterone in the blood,, and then perhaps more aromatization. but somehow deca causes test to aromatize more, and thus a good AI protocol is definitely necessary on such a cycle.
Perhaps Half Whit could chime in on this one

 

[bigben66]

Cycling is all a learning process, if you throw in a compound and have a bad experience, then common sense dictates that you should steer clear of that compound on future cycles.
I've ran Turanabol as a kicker on a few cycles, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the results.
Don't forget, you'll be upping the Test too...
It's a no-brainer in my eyes tbh

 

[BulletWoods]

Drop the Deca all together and just run NPP as your nandro--
If things go bad with the Acne, then you can drop it and it will clear your system way faster then deca. Deca, from what I have read, does not aromatize to a high degree like test does, but it has the propensity towards causing your test to aromatize to a further degree.. **

so , keeping up with your AI on a test/deca cycle is very very important. Spikes in your blood levels and estrogen is a very probable reason that you got acne really bad last time..


** I don't know if this is because deca binds more strongly to the receptor, , thus causing more free 'unbound' testosterone in the blood,, and then perhaps more aromatization. but somehow deca causes test to aromatize more, and thus a good AI protocol is definitely necessary on such a cycle.
Perhaps Half Whit could chime in on this one

Good info and thank you very much! Interested in what Halfwit would have to say on this as well.

Cycling is all a learning process, if you throw in a compound and have a bad experience, then common sense dictates that you should steer clear of that compound on future cycles.
I've ran Turanabol as a kicker on a few cycles, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the results.
Don't forget, you'll be upping the Test too...
It's a no-brainer in my eyes tbh

Thanks, Ben! When you run Tbol, do you personally do one dose per day or split into two? I have seen people suggest both, but it seems to me that the half life is long enough for just once a day, yes?

I think I am going to drop the deca altogether to be safe, so you would suggest going up in Test E? How does this look?
Week 1-5: Tbol - 50mg ED
Week 1-14: Test E - 800mg
Week 1-14: Adex - .5mg EOD
Week 1-14: HCG - 500iu per week
PCT
Week 17-20: Clomid - 50/50/50/50
Week 17-22: Nolva - 40/40/20/20/20/20

 

[bigben66]

Week 1-5: Tbol - 50mg ED
Week 1-14: Test E - 800mg
Week 1-14: Adex - .5mg EOD
Week 1-14: HCG - 500iu per week
PCT
Week 17-20: Clomid - 50/50/50/50
Week 17-22: Nolva - 40/40/20/20/20/20

That looks pretty much perfect, you'll have some fun with that....

I usually split my T'bol in two, worked just fine for me.

Enjoy!

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Drop the Deca all together and just run NPP as your nandro--
If things go bad with the Acne, then you can drop it and it will clear your system way faster then deca. Deca, from what I have read, does not aromatize to a high degree like test does, but it has the propensity towards causing your test to aromatize to a further degree.. **

so , keeping up with your AI on a test/deca cycle is very very important. Spikes in your blood levels and estrogen is a very probable reason that you got acne really bad last time..


** I don't know if this is because deca binds more strongly to the receptor, , thus causing more free 'unbound' testosterone in the blood,, and then perhaps more aromatization. but somehow deca causes test to aromatize more, and thus a good AI protocol is definitely necessary on such a cycle.
Perhaps Half Whit could chime in on this one

I think this is a bad idea. It's the hormone Nandrolone thats causing the acne, not the ester. If you can't run Nandrolone without acne then don't run it. Unless there's some lower dose you know you can tolerate I would avoid it completely.

Acne can take forever to get rid of, mine took close to a year to clear up after a heavy test cycle. For example I know I can run test up to 700mg weekly with no real acne issues, but as soon as I break that 700 I will break out bad. And as always, it takes ages to fully get rid of.

Also, Deca does aromatize, just at a lesser degree than testosterone. Acne also has very little to do with estradiol.

Cycling is all a learning process, if you throw in a compound and have a bad experience, then common sense dictates that you should steer clear of that compound on future cycles.
I've ran Turanabol as a kicker on a few cycles, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the results.
Don't forget, you'll be upping the Test too...
It's a no-brainer in my eyes tbh

Fully agreed with this.

 

[Roush]

From personal experience-- A year ago I was running test and deca,, I was not very accurate with my AI protocol, I would miss dosages often. Acne got bad on that cycle. Sounds exactly like what happened to OP when he ran deca.

Now I'm running test, NPP, deca, Dbol, proviron and primo.. With the NPP in there my nandrolone dose is higher then my last go around.. But this time I don't have the bad acne problem.

The only difference between this time and last time.. I am spot on with my AI protocol now.

So for me it seems that the fluctuations in estrogen levels is what contributed to the acne