Nolvadex for Women

[Kasinova]

I'm planning on doing post cycle therapy (pct) with Nolvadex after I finish my Anadrol cycle, and would like to know how it has helped others in getting shredded. I've always tried to cut naturally, but I find that since I'm a woman, it's especially hard getting my body fat any lower than 15% naturally. So I'd like to know what dosages other women have used with nolvadex to lower their body fat; any info would be helpful, thanks.

 

[German89]

We have higher BF because we have ass and tits eh!

Nolva is only good to keep estro levels lower.

Typically used for men in post cycle therapy (pct) to prevent Gyno.

Reevaluate your diet, and go from there... If you feel you want to try Nolva go ahead. But in my opinion, I don't see why you would think it would lower your BF%.
You've demolished your ovaries enough, time to give them a break and get back on cycle. I really don't know how Nolvadex affects your period but, if it lowers estro, giving you a bump in test, I doubt you'd still be getting a period.

 

[Kasinova]

We have higher BF because we have ass and tits eh!

Nolva is only good to keep estro levels lower.

Typically used for men in post cycle therapy (pct) to prevent Gyno.

Reevaluate your diet, and go from there... If you feel you want to try Nolva go ahead. But in my opinion, I don't see why you would think it would lower your BF%.
You've demolished your ovaries enough, time to give them a break and get back on cycle. I really don't know how Nolvadex affects your period but, if it lowers estro, giving you a bump in test, I doubt you'd still be getting a period.

From what I'm reading, estrogen blockers are good at lowering body fat in those areas that are typically problem areas for women--specifically body fat in the abdomen, butt, and thigh area, because that's where most women gain weight.

I've honestly tried pretty extreme measures with dieting, and even eating only 800-1400 kcal/day on a low-carb diet for a year straight, and I still find it very hard to get below that 15% threshold.

 

[halfwit]

I'm only hopping in here since it's not in the sacred Women's Section, so I hope I can clarify something. Nolvadex isn't something that really stops estrogen from forming, it just blocks it from attaching to your receptors like those found in your breast tissue. This is actually why it was developed as a means of aiding with breast cancer as some forms of estrogen (notably estradiol) are carcinogenic in nature. I don't honestly know how an aromatase inhibitor which is what I think you're really looking for such as arimidex would affect you as I don't really know nearly as much about the SUPER-complex female endocrine system works (you guys really are way more complex than us men) so I would hesitate in recommending either especially as a means of fat loss.

I do know that as women tend to carry more water in those trouble areas, this might be why this line of reasoning exists. If you reduce the total amount of estrogen found in the body, you do reduce the amount of water retention. This is why women get bloat during pre-menstrual times as your body ramps up its production of estrogen. I'd honestly look more at diet OP as I'm not so sure you want to mess with your hormones, especially since estrogen plays a FAR greater role in your quality of life than it does for us men.

If you're serious about that last bit of body fat, I'd give 3J a call and see what he can do for you. He's the moderator of the diet section and has a website for his service over at 3J's Nutrition | Diet and fitness consulting to get you to the next level.. Good luck!

My .02c

 

[juced_porkchop]

have you had your thyroid checked, I would wonder about that.
Anadrol... Have you tried tbol or Anavar (var) , i would pick that over Anavar (var) for a women.

 

[Kasinova]

have you had your thyroid checked, I would wonder about that.

I did have my thyroid checked but that was years ago at age 21, and I showed up in the doctor's office completely cracked out (literally) and wired of my mind LOL!!!!! Not sure if that raised my thyroid levels just enough, but everything came back normal then.

Anadrol... Have you tried tbol or Anavar (var) , i would pick that over Anavar (var) for a women.

I don't have any sources for Ana Anavar (var) ; I have never tried Tbol, I have only tried Ultradrol besides this Adrol. But to be honest, based on the information I gave in this thread, I have a feeling it is either not real Anadrol or it is highly underdosed: steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroids-picture-forum/650833-real-anadrol-oxymetholone-please-help.html

I should add too, that that is the reason I have not exceeded my dose beyond 25mg/day, because of how strong Adrols are.

 

[German89]

From what I'm reading, estrogen blockers are good at lowering body fat in those areas that are typically problem areas for women--specifically body fat in the abdomen, butt, and thigh area, because that's where most women gain weight.

I've honestly tried pretty extreme measures with dieting, and even eating only 800-1400 kcal/day on a low-carb diet for a year straight, and I still find it very hard to get below that 15% threshold.

maybe metabolic damage?
I wouldn't suggest taking nolva, it's mens post cycle therapy (pct) for gyno

 

[Kasinova]

I'd honestly look more at diet OP as I'm not so sure you want to mess with your hormones, especially since estrogen plays a FAR greater role in your quality of life than it does for us men.

Women mess with their hormones all the time. Birth control is the most common example of this.

 

[Kasinova]

maybe metabolic damage?
I wouldn't suggest taking nolva, it's mens post cycle therapy (pct) for gyno

That is the idea yes; to use nolva as post cycle therapy (pct) to prevent estrogen rebound, which means potentially preventing depression, weight gain, and all those other things that are common with estrogen rebound effect.

 

[juced_porkchop]

That is the idea yes; to use nolva as post cycle therapy (pct) to prevent estrogen rebound, which means potentially preventing depression, weight gain, and all those other things that are common with estrogen rebound effect.

nolva and other serms done lower estrogen though, an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) would like letro, but again not sure how this would work for a women..
I would think you dont need any SERM OR Aromatase inhibitor (AI), let yourself recover on your own.

there is lots of sources on the internet for tbol or Anavar (var), just need ot do lots of research and check them out first.

Let us know how this run goes.
I would also get blood work again ( while normal) and see if anything is off. wait till 2+ months after cycle though for blood work is what I would rec.

 

[halfwit]

Women mess with their hormones all the time. Birth control is the most common example of this.

That is comparing apples to oranges though. Most birth control shut down the ovaries or cause a controlled hormonal cycle. I have seen what depo-provera can do and as it caused my wife serious issues for a year - I think I can stand by my statement of being cautious about hormonal changes. By all means feel free to test out nolvadex, but I don't think it's going to give you the results you're after.

Good luck though!

 

[Kasinova]

nolva and other serms done lower estrogen though, an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) would like letro, but again not sure how this would work for a women..
I would think you dont need any SERM OR Aromatase inhibitor (AI), let yourself recover on your own.

there is lots of sources on the internet for tbol or Anavar (var), just need ot do lots of research and check them out first.

Let us know how this run goes.
I would also get blood work again ( while normal) and see if anything is off. wait till 2+ months after cycle though for blood work is what I would rec.

So basically, youre saying its an antagonist then. In that case I dont see why nolva wouldnt work. If its an antagonist it means the estrogen wont bind to any receptors, thus rendering the estrogen ineffective.

I mean, this is basically the exact same way other drugs like naloxone work. Its a mu alpha antagonist, which prevents anything from binding to the opiate receptors. Consequently, when you take any opiate, you will fail to get high or feel any of its effects.

 

[Kasinova]

That is comparing apples to oranges though. Most birth control shut down the ovaries or cause a controlled hormonal cycle. I have seen what depo-provera can do and as it caused my wife serious issues for a year - I think I can stand by my statement of being cautious about hormonal changes. By all means feel free to test out nolvadex, but I don't think it's going to give you the results you're after.

Good luck though!

True dat. Im very sensitive to high levels of estrogen and progesterone in the body, which is why I dont take hormonal birth control. Too many side effects. Thats the reason im especially worried about estrogen rebound effect in my case.

 

[DreDay187]

So basically, youre saying its an antagonist then. In that case I dont see why nolva wouldnt work. If its an antagonist it means the estrogen wont bind to any receptors, thus rendering the estrogen ineffective.

I mean, this is basically the exact same way other drugs like naloxone work. Its a mu alpha antagonist, which prevents anything from binding to the opiate receptors. Consequently, when you take any opiate, you will fail to get high or feel any of its effects.

Nolva is categorized as a mixed agonist and antagonist depending on the tissue. There was an anecdotal study done on a female body builder who took 20-40mg/day of Nolvadex and the sides she experienced are up to you to decide if they're worth:

Nolvadex did indeed speed fat loss from her buttocks and upper thighs'both of which have a preponderance of estrogen receptors in women. Paradoxically, however, it also limited her ability to lose fat from her abdominal area. Then there were the side effects: loss of breast mass, night sweats and hot flashes, the latter effects due to the chemical menopause induced by Nolvadex. Because it effectively blocks estrogen action in women, it also increases testosterone activity.

Nolvadex is linked to serious side effects in women:

'Endometrial cancer, or cancer of the uterus
'Excessive blood clotting, which can lead to a stroke
'Birth defects if used during pregnancy
'Ovarian cysts
'Loss of bone density due to lack of estrogen activity
'Cataracts and other eye damage affecting the cornea and retina
'Hot flashes
'Vaginal discharge
'Loss of sex drive

Women who stay on Nolvadex for extended periods are potentially subject to bone-wasting diseases, such as osteoporosis. While Nolvadex is not the most dangerous drug in the bodybuilding drug culture, it can hardly be considered benign, especially for women.

How To Be a Bodybuilder | Iron Man Magazine

^^^not the most scientific article I know

check out this article by animal on this topic , here ya go :

nolvadex and fat loss :
Nolvadex has estrogenic properties on fat in that it increases lipolisis (fat mobilization). To quote from a couple of studies:

"Tamoxifen, a nonsteroidal antiestrogenic antitumor agent, has weak estrogen-like effects on lipid metabolism, however, the mechanism remains unknown. We previously reported that tamoxifen decreases the activity of lipoprotein lipase (LPL), a key enzyme in triglyceride metabolism, in patients with breast cancer." (1)

"Treatment of ovariectomized rats with the nonsteroidal antiestrogen tamoxifen mimicked the effects of estradiol and caused significant decreases in food intake and body weight. The decreases in body weight were reflected mainly in a decreased body fat content" (2)

So by acting as an estrogen, it increases lipolysis. This means more fatty acids are released into the blood stream to serve as a POTENTIAL fuel source. Does this mean it causes people to lose weight? Not necessarily. There is a perception that the opposite occurs, but studies have shown this not be the case. Tamoxifen has no significant effect on weight. To quote from yet another study:

"The purpose of this research study was to determine if weight gain is associated with tamoxifen therapy and to observe the impact of weight gain on recurrence and survival. Prognostic indicators, changes in weight, and disease status from diagnosis to the end of treatment were studied in 200 consecutive Stage I and II breast cancer patients, not receiving systemic chemotherapy, admitted from 1986 to the present, with observation periods ranging from 3-5 years. A mean weight gain of 1.2 Kgs was seen in all patients; however, weight gain was not significantly different for those receiving tamoxifen vs. those not receiving tamoxifen, (P = 0.66, CI 95% for the difference -1.8 Kgs to +1.2 Kgs)." (3)

It is interesting to speculate why if nolvadex increases lipolysis it does not lead to weight loss. One possibility is that the subjects, cancer patients, aren't exercising to take advantage of the mobilized fat. The other possibility is that since nolvadex lowers GH and IGF-1, a reduction in those hormones blunts any potential weight loss.

The fact that Nolvadex increases lipolysis so much is actually a serious problem. The blood stream is flooded with fatty acids that can cause hyperlipidemia. This can cause cardiovascular problems, pancreatitis, fatty liver, and a general accumulation of fat around the organs.

This suggests to me that if you intend to use nolvadex you should have a low fat, high fiber diet to lower the blood lipids, and get plenty of exercise to burn all the fat the nolvadex has mobilized for you. I agree with Dan Duchaine that nolva CAN cause fat loss if you take full advantage of its potential.



(1) Horm Res 2000;53(1):36-9
Tamoxifen inhibits lipoprotein activity: in vivo and in vitro studies.
Hozumi Y, Kawano M, Hakamata Y, Miyata M, Jordan VC.

(2) Am J Physiol 1993 Jun;264(6 Pt 2):R1219-
Tamoxifen mimics the effects of estradiol on food intake, body weight, and body composition in rats.
Wade GN, Heller HW.

(3) Breast Cancer Res Treat 1997 Jun;44(2):135-
Weight gain associated with adjuvant tamoxifen therapy in stage I and II breast cancer: fact or artifact?
Kumar NB, Allen K, Cantor A, Cox CE, Greenberg H, Shah S, Lyman GH.

 

[DreDay187]

More evidence pointing out how nolva can act differently in different tissues.

Abstract
Tamoxifen is a substituted triphenylethylene antiestrogen used in the adjuvant therapy and chemoprevention of breast cancer. The antiestrogenic activity of the compound has been attributed to its metabolism to an active 4-hydroxy derivative and the avid binding of the active metabolite to the estrogen receptor. Receptor binding of the antiestrogen alters the transcriptional activity normally attributed to the estradiol-bound estrogen receptor. Tamoxifen is both an antagonist and an agonist of the estrogen receptor. However, a molecular explanation exists for this apparent paradox. The dual action is a function of the estrogen receptor complex present in a particular cell or tissue. If a cell type requires activating factors 1 and 2 of the estrogen receptor to be functioning concurrently, tamoxifen is antagonistic. However, if a cell or tissue requires only activating factor 1 to interact with transcription factors at the promoter, tamoxifen is agonistic. The implication is that the investigators must understand the fundamental biology of the estrogen receptor complex in a tissue context before one can predict tissue activity of tamoxifen.

Antagonistic and agonistic effects of tamoxifen:... [Semin Oncol. 1997] - PubMed - NCBI

 

[halfwit]

This makes me wonder which tissues in men see the antagonistic nature of the SERM then... GREAT info Doc!

 

[DreDay187]

From what I'm reading, estrogen blockers are good at lowering body fat in those areas that are typically problem areas for women--specifically body fat in the abdomen, butt, and thigh area, because that's where most women gain weight.

I've honestly tried pretty extreme measures with dieting, and even eating only 800-1400 kcal/day on a low-carb diet for a year straight, and I still find it very hard to get below that 15% threshold.

Part of the reason you have trouble breaking 15% body fat is that you're a woman. Woman carry more body fat naturally to help with their cycle, pregnancy, hormonal function, etc. below 15% body fat in women will possibly stop the menstrual cycle and can cause infertility if maintained for a length of time. I'd compare 15% BF in a female as being close to mid single digits for a male. You're right at the threshold of being severely unhealthy if maintaining for any amount of time besides a show or some quick event.

 

[DreDay187]

This makes me wonder which tissues in men see the antagonistic nature of the SERM then... GREAT info Doc!

You and I must share minds brother since I've been trying to find that exact thing out for the last 20min with no luck so far. Damn pubmed and their paid access bs hahaha

 

[halfwit]

You and I must share minds brother since I've been trying to find that exact thing out for the last 20min with no luck so far. Damn pubmed and their paid access bs hahaha

Yeah, sometimes you can get lucky by viewing google's cache, but it is a pain. I'd help, but I'm supposed to be doing homework right now LOL!

 

[DreDay187]

Yeah, sometimes you can get lucky by viewing google's cache, but it is a pain. I'd help, but I'm supposed to be doing homework right now LOL!

Better jump on that homework ASAP buddy bc you owe me a tren/test/seltzer water cocktail as soon as my flight lands