R2E...
"YOU'RE RITE! nolva does not lower estrogen levels, BUT it keeps estrogen from acting in your body which basically does the same friggin thing as an anti-aromatase except they take a lil longer to lower ur estrogen levels and when you come off of anti-e's ur est levels are still very high which means you mite get gyno symptoms again very quickly as opposed to using an anti-aromatase because your body will need more time to produce estrogen. But basically, estrogen plays an important role in how much you gain on your cycle. If estrogen plays a role then ofcourse any anti-aromatase or anti-estrogen will hinder gains"
Nolvas action and an anti-aromatase action are completly different. Nolva is far from the same. One is blocking estrogen via psuedo-estrogen replacement in the ER. The other is biochemically lowering aromatase enzyme activity. BIG difference. The net effect is also very different. In the nolva case, you still have some E and psuedo-E in your body. In the case of mamary tissue, it does no function ie. causes no growth. However, there are other functions that it can still carry out. Cholesterol action is one of them. I also believe that the AR upregulation can still take place. In fact...I think thats the entire reason that Nolva alone for post cycle can possibly used!!!
A little less igf-1? how about a fifth less igf-1...thats not a small amount...
That is unfortunately more of a speculation. Some studies show much less, some show much more. IGF is a very, very sensitive compound. It can fluxuate easily. It is nearly impossible to set controls on a study accurately enough to pin point the exact change. You have to put things in relative means. You think 1/5 less IGF is going to inhibit a "noticable" decrease in gains off say a gram of test a week? No way! Thats going along with the "1/5" at that.
There is "probally" a study??? common bro, you gotta do better than that especially when I just posted a reply that had abstacts to back it up - where are yours??? btw femara and arimidex are BOTH anti-AROMATASES they both do the same thing in the body. AND igf-1 plays a major role in how much you gain also...
Studies are a dime a dozen. Most of them arent even on BB with our goals anyways. In this topic, most are on breast cancer or rats. I dont need any abstracts. 90% of my knowledge is from my own experience and from what I have learned through the many courses of biology, microbiology, physics, thermodynamics, pharmocology, toxicology, organic and inorganic chemistry, biochemistry, physicology, biomechanics and whatever I left out. (senior in pre-med, 3 yr personal trainer). If I really needed to, all Id have to do is goto the library or to medline and dig one up after who knows how long. But what for? You have a study saying otherwise, what would a study contradicting yours prove? Nothing, just that studies are a dime a dozen and shouldnt be held as the end all say all.
Ari and Fem are both anti-e's but they hardly do the same thing in the body. They both decrease aromatic enzyme levels, BUT Fem increases aromactic protein levels!!! Thats a huge difference! ITs like apples and oranges, both are fruit but they taste different.
IGF does play a role, but not THE role. It is far more complex than just that. As I already stated, the change is unknown really in IGF levels. Also, do you know what percentage of fluxation is considered significant? Prob not cause its undefined. There is no -X% IGF will result in -Y% in gains. It far from works like that.
No need to run both. If you get signs of gyno, use nolva and an anti-aromatase together. After a few days drop the nolva and just continue with the anti-aromatase. Nolva wont significantly help your cholesterol levels at all during a cycle. No matter what, they're still going to look bad...
I guess there was mix up with my blood work then. I always get bloodwork (another advantage of premed). Ive compared many of them. With nolva, I have been able to obstain normal values of cholesterol. I dont have hardcopies since I get them under the table, but if you like feel free to goto AF and search on there. I know someone else about 1-2 years ago did the same.
"I have a few concerns about Aromasin. There is ample evidence that complete estrogen suppression is a bad thing (which doesn't seem to be an issue with Femara or Arimidex). Aromasin at a 25mg/day dosage has been shown to induce 85-95% reduction in estrogen. I also have concerns on other endocrine effects: Aromasin does not bind significantly to steroidal receptors, except for a slight affinity for the androgen receptor (0.28% relative to dihydrotestosterone). The binding affinity of its 17-dihydrometabolite for the androgen receptor, however, is 100-times that of the parent compound (about equal to testosterone). Androgenic side effects have been reported only with exemestane compared to Arimidex and Femara."
For your last comment, again..its 1 study. Ive already stated my blood work shows otherwise. thats all it takes for me really. Complete estrogen suppresion would be bad (another reason to keep taking Nolva once again) but the study even says 85-95% reduction. Your E levels would already be high, or potentially high induced by aromation would put your E down a little low, but right about where it needs to be when high estrogen is of major concern. The last part, about the affinity of the 17-dihyrdometabolite, seems to written very inconclusively... "have been reported". Let me guess too, this was done on women in a breast cancer study and some lady grew a mustache. Low levels of estrogen (which could be obtained more with Aromasin) can trigger the body into producing more testosterone to aromatise via negative feedback loop (why some people use only anti-e post cycle, Ive done it and it actually works). If that study was correct though, think of this..would you rather have tits or a hairy chest? Point being, not all sides could possibly ever be prevented. I have although not noticed any increased androgenic sides, even when on 1500mg Test and 50mg Aromasin.
If your goals of a cycle is to gain A2 related fat, edema, mood fluxuations, and gyno it would make sence to not run anything. If thats worth you being able to falsly read a scale and mistake lean and actual gains with actuality and conclude that estrogen is very significant, then be my guest (thats a general comment, not towards you)
