On TRT: Zero libido with low DHT

[newtohrt]

I hope that works for you man, as I know what it is like to be on TRT and still have low/no libido. (BTW, I have never cycled or used Pro Hormones and my Prolactin level is mid-range - neither high, nor low)

In my case, TRT has never given me any increase in libido (which was close to non-existent before TRT), and when I look at some of the other forums I see that this is not as uncommon as many people would have you believe. Dr Crisler's forum is full of guys wondering why their libido is still missing now that they are on TRT and have good lab numbers. Answers seem to be vague and hit and miss at best. Some guys have better libido on gels than injections because the gels convert to higher DHT levels than injections. (again, for some people - not everyone, obviously)

 

[JOWS7]

I don't know. I am a little skeptical. Lots of guys on cycles using 19nor's take pramipexole or cabergoline to keep their Prolactin under control. If it gets too high they have ED problems. But many drive it into the ground and do not have ED problems. The effects they experience when their prolactin is low are: 1) achieving ejaculation takes much longer and 2) the refractory period is shortened.

This is anecdotal evidence, but nonetheless it makes me skeptical.

I agree. I'm not putting a lot of faith in this but I'm just looking at all possible culprits. I'll have labs drawn and see what they say.

 

[JOWS7]

I hope that works for you man, as I know what it is like to be on TRT and still have low/no libido. (BTW, I have never cycled or used Pro Hormones and my Prolactin level is mid-range - neither high, nor low)

In my case, TRT has never given me any increase in libido (which was close to non-existent before TRT), and when I look at some of the other forums I see that this is not as uncommon as many people would have you believe. Dr Crisler's forum is full of guys wondering why their libido is still missing now that they are on TRT and have good lab numbers. Answers seem to be vague and hit and miss at best. Some guys have better libido on gels than injections because the gels convert to higher DHT levels than injections. (again, for some people - not everyone, obviously)

What were your Prolactin and DHT values? Just curious. Are you on any other medications? SSRI's?

 

[newtohrt]

What were your Prolactin and DHT values? Just curious. Are you on any other medications? SSRI's?

Never used SSRIs and I am not on any medications other than TRT. My Prolactin is 9 on a scale of 2 - 18 ng/mL. DHT is 60 on a scale of 16 -79 ng/dl. My libido was terrible before TRT, and its worse now than it was before I started. Low SHBG is a bitch.

 

[JOWS7]

Never used SSRIs and I am not on any medications other than TRT. My Prolactin is 9 on a scale of 2 - 18 ng/mL. DHT is 60 on a scale of 16 -79 ng/dl. My libido was terrible before TRT, and its worse now than it was before I started. Low SHBG is a bitch.

Why have you come to the conclusion that SHBG is your problem? Anything you can do to raise SHBG? I haven't looked into myself but my numbers appeared to be in the middle of the reference range.

 

[JOWS7]

Never used SSRIs and I am not on any medications other than TRT. My Prolactin is 9 on a scale of 2 - 18 ng/mL. DHT is 60 on a scale of 16 -79 ng/dl. My libido was terrible before TRT, and its worse now than it was before I started. Low SHBG is a bitch.

Found this:

Opposite effects of thyroid hormones on binding proteins for steroid hormones (sex hormone-binding globulin and corticosteroid-binding globulin) in humans.

Abstract

Sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) and corticosteroid-binding globulin (CBG) levels were evaluated in euthyroid (N = 111), hyper- (N = 58) and hypothyroid (N = 38) men, in pre- and postmenopausal women (study 1) and in hyper- (N = 24) and hypothyroid (N = 15) patients before and after treatment with carbimazole or levothyroxine therapy (study 2). The SHBG levels are increased in hyper- and decreased in hypothyroid patients, whereas CBG levels are increased in hypo- and decreased in hyperthyroid patients. The SHBG levels are higher in women than in men with similar thyroid status. Plasma SHBG levels are correlated positively whereas CBG levels are correlated negatively with free thyroid hormone concentrations in men as well as women. In hypothyroid patients, SHBG concentrations increased (p < 0.01) and CBG concentrations decreased (p < 0.01) during levothyroxine treatment. In hyperthyroid patients, SHBG concentrations decreased (p < 0.01) and CBG concentrations increased (p < 0.01) during antithyroid treatment. The SHBG and CBG concentrations in treated hypo- and hyperthyroid patients were not significantly different from those of euthyroid controls. Our data indicate that SHBG and CBG levels depend on thyroid status. Corticosteroid-binding globulin is an index of thyroid hormone action at the liver level whose changes are opposite to those of SHBG in hyper- and hypothyroidism.

Have you looked into your thyroid as a possible culprit?

 

[newtohrt]

Thyroid is fine

Found this:

Opposite effects of thyroid hormones on binding proteins for steroid hormones (sex hormone-binding globulin and corticosteroid-binding globulin) in humans.

Abstract

Sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) and corticosteroid-binding globulin (CBG) levels were evaluated in euthyroid (N = 111), hyper- (N = 58) and hypothyroid (N = 38) men, in pre- and postmenopausal women (study 1) and in hyper- (N = 24) and hypothyroid (N = 15) patients before and after treatment with carbimazole or levothyroxine therapy (study 2). The SHBG levels are increased in hyper- and decreased in hypothyroid patients, whereas CBG levels are increased in hypo- and decreased in hyperthyroid patients. The SHBG levels are higher in women than in men with similar thyroid status. Plasma SHBG levels are correlated positively whereas CBG levels are correlated negatively with free thyroid hormone concentrations in men as well as women. In hypothyroid patients, SHBG concentrations increased (p < 0.01) and CBG concentrations decreased (p < 0.01) during levothyroxine treatment. In hyperthyroid patients, SHBG concentrations decreased (p < 0.01) and CBG concentrations increased (p < 0.01) during antithyroid treatment. The SHBG and CBG concentrations in treated hypo- and hyperthyroid patients were not significantly different from those of euthyroid controls. Our data indicate that SHBG and CBG levels depend on thyroid status. Corticosteroid-binding globulin is an index of thyroid hormone action at the liver level whose changes are opposite to those of SHBG in hyper- and hypothyroidism.

Have you looked into your thyroid as a possible culprit?

I have had many thyroid tests over the last 3 years and they all show me as fine. E.g., neither Hyper, nor Hypo thyriod.

 

[jasil]

I think there are far too many misconceptions about TRT. Viagra works far better than TRT!! What I mean by that is my levels are high 800-1270ng/dl on a 1249ng/dl scale and my E2 levels are 25-35 non sensitive assay. Prolactin is middle of the road...... and I've seen improvement all over. Energy, libido, morning wood is more consistant, but not daily even, work outs, pumps, but it's only minor! It's clearly better not night or day better, but definitely a improvement.

What has ALWAYS worked for me is Viagra. Even if my desire is not 100% off the charts once started I'm 18yrd old steel rod hard and that is fun! I don't even have to think about it it's just BAM steel rod and that feels good. I don't know which would be harder for me to stop Viagra or TRT...........I would say given I choice I would quit TRT and keep the Viagra though. So, happy that both are readily availabe they have added greatly to my quality of life.

I know Cialis is big here, but Viagra gives much more of a "pump" than Cialis daily, for me at least.

 

[Brunodk]

I think there are far too many misconceptions about TRT. Viagra works far better than TRT!! What I mean by that is my levels are high 800-1270ng/dl on a 1249ng/dl scale and my E2 levels are 25-35 non sensitive assay. Prolactin is middle of the road...... and I've seen improvement all over. Energy, libido, morning wood is more consistant, but not daily even, work outs, pumps, but it's only minor! It's clearly better not night or day better, but definitely a improvement.

What has ALWAYS worked for me is Viagra. Even if my desire is not 100% off the charts once started I'm 18yrd old steel rod hard and that is fun! I don't even have to think about it it's just BAM steel rod and that feels good. I don't know which would be harder for me to stop Viagra or TRT...........I would say given I choice I would quit TRT and keep the Viagra though. So, happy that both are readily availabe they have added greatly to my quality of life.

I know Cialis is big here, but Viagra gives much more of a "pump" than Cialis daily, for me at least.

For some of us there's a big difference between low libido and ED. Without TRT I had zero desire to have sex. I didn't have a problem getting it up on the rare occasion I wanted to but I just never wanted to. TRT has been a life changer in that regard for me. My wife wants me to leave her alone.

 

[Megatron28]

I agree with Bruno. Even when my TT was below 200 I never had problems getting or sustaining erections. The problem was that I was too tired to want sex. I had no libido and I just wanted to sleep.

 

[JOWS7]

I'm about to order some labs on lef.org - I don't have insurance. What do you guys recommend I add?

LC100012:
- Total Testosterone
- Free Testosterone
- DHEA-S
- Estradiol

LC082016:
- SHBG

LC500142:
- DHT

LC004465:
- Prolactin


I am interested in testing my histamine levels but nothing came up when I typed it in. Is it called something else?

 

[methos0123]

you could run CRP, and look at your eos, and baso count in cbc...

 

[jasil]

See just shows that everyone's experiences are different. I'm still not even remotely as horny as I was in my youth. Now it's much more of a choice, but being married 20+ years may be a part of that too. If I was out looking for "tail" maybe it would be different.

 

[Megatron28]

See just shows that everyone's experiences are different. I'm still not even remotely as horny as I was in my youth. Now it's much more of a choice, but being married 20+ years may be a part of that too. If I was out looking for "tail" maybe it would be different.

Sounds like somebody needs to run a controlled experiment.

 

[jasil]

Sounds like somebody needs to run a controlled experiment.

Ha ha lol

 

[newtohrt]

Libido is worse on TRT than off

See just shows that everyone's experiences are different. I'm still not even remotely as horny as I was in my youth. Now it's much more of a choice, but being married 20+ years may be a part of that too. If I was out looking for "tail" maybe it would be different.

It is indeed different for everyone. I had very low, nearly non-existant libido before TRT and now than I am on, its worse than that on a scale of one to ten, its a zero.

 

[JOWS7]

It is indeed different for everyone. I had very low, nearly non-existant libido before TRT and now than I am on, its worse than that on a scale of one to ten, its a zero.

I looked at some of your past threads and saw that you might be hypothyroid. You state that you took thyroid medication with no luck but do you have the labs for your thyroid when you were on it? How long were you on those meds? Maybe it needed awhile - weeks, months - for your body to "get a rhythm." Were you taking TRT while on these thyroid medications?

 

[newtohrt]

Thyroid

I looked at some of your past threads and saw that you might be hypothyroid. You state that you took thyroid medication with no luck but do you have the labs for your thyroid when you were on it? How long were you on those meds? Maybe it needed awhile - weeks, months - for your body to "get a rhythm." Were you taking TRT while on these thyroid medications?

At this point I truly wish it was something to do with my thyroid, as then perhaps it could be treated. Howoever, I have never had any of the "usual" symtoms of being Hypo, such as decreased body temperature and intolerance to cold, etc..., but I do have the labs from before I started TRT: (and remember, I had next to zero libido then as well - getting on TRT was *supposed* to resolve that)

Before TRT
T3, Free 3.2 range 1.8 4.6 pg/ml
T4, Free 1.37 range 0.9 - 1.7 ng/dl
TSH 2.66 range 0.27 - 4.2

Labs after being on TRT for 18 months, and on supplimental T3 for 4 months prior to test:

T3, Free 2.0 range 1.2 - 4.9 ug/dl
T4, Total 4.9 range 4.5 - 12.0 uIU/ml
T3 uptake 41 range 24 - 39%

Then I stopped the suplimental T3 and my next set of labls were basically the same as above. I have been tested for reverse T3 and Hashimotos, no issues there. Since then I have had several more thyroid tests and nothing ever pops-out as a "red flag."

 

[Black Beard]

I love DHT. Finasteride can be banned for all i care.

 

[nine_lives]

An important question is, when was your libido high? if it ever has been? Was there a period of time when you noticed a significant loss of libido? Or did you do TRT in an attempt to increase your libido?