over weight and starting testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) * ai's ? serm?

You're joking, right?

You don't get the 'rush' from an injection? Your muscles pump, libido increases, you just feel more manly and strong?

The ONLY people that won't notice much of a difference are people that are already at supraphysiological levels. Even so, they'll notice an increase in all of those things - but at that level, those benefits may become overpowering.

Try it yourself.

I hope wee can agree that the rule of diminishing returns applies here - i.e., if you're already very well off on T, the less the benefits are going to change your life and vice versa.

He's serious TB. That is why most guys don't feel the effect of starting testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for 3-8 weeks. The testosterone being added through injections is being offset by loss of natty test along with the delays caused by the ester. And a guy with healthy levels takes longer generally, all things being equal, to get to the point where the injections surpass natural test levels for him to feel it. Even perfectly healthy guys with TT of 700 take weeks to feel the effects of a cycle where they are injecting 500mg of test per week. if there is a euphoria that settles in after the first injection it is usually entirely a psychological effect.
 
He's serious TB. That is why most guys don't feel the effect of starting testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for 3-8 weeks. The testosterone being added through injections is being offset by loss of natty test along with the delays caused by the ester. And a guy with healthy levels takes longer generally, all things being equal, to get to the point where the injections surpass natural test levels for him to feel it. Even perfectly healthy guys with TT of 700 take weeks to feel the effects of a cycle where they are injecting 500mg of test per week. if there is a euphoria that settles in after the first injection it is usually entirely a psychological effect.

While it's notable what your logic is getting at - and I'll agree to an extent in your logic but its application is flawed.

All else being equal - and I did basically phrase this as such in some prior posts in this thread - a testosterone injection will make someone feel better. You're right, some of that benefit can be psychosomatic/placebo but even if that's the case, my point still stands that virtually all guys will feel better with a testosterone injection. The degree by which they will feel better will differ - which is where your logic takes over.

However, the way you've phrased it - doesn't make sense. You're assuming that it takes week for test to be increased over baseline for healthy males. That's not true. I'm assuming you arrived at that conclusion, using the logic that you posted above - that the injection won't exceed their baseline production. What you didn't acknowledge in that logic is that UNLESS THE SHOT COMPLETELY SHUTS DOWN SAID PERSON'S TESTOSTERONE PRODUCTION AND WIPES OUT THEIR CURRENT TESTOSTERONE LEVELS (virtually impossible given a single injection), the injection will increase TT OVER their baseline.

A healthy male will feel the effects of injections, especially at non therapeutic doses (cycles), virtually immediately. Will the effects increase over time, as saturation and serum levels increase? Yes, we're absolutely in agreement there. Thats irrefutable, when all other factors are controlled.

Basically it boils down to this, the changes in a hypogonadal male may be more profound (they may go from feeling like garbage to feeling on cloud nine) but a non hypogonadal male will feel the effects just as quick, if not quicker, but they will not be as profound. They felt good in the first place, so it may be harder to detect that they're feeling even better.

If you're still following my tangent, now just apply this to how many threads that we see of I'M TWO WEEKS IN AND WHYS MY testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) NOT WORKING? (that's because their dose is too low/their serum levels haven't increased to an appreciable level to notice changes or other factors like estrogen being out of control, etc).

Now I can guarantee if you go to the AAS forums, you don't have guys two weeks into even a light cycle, saying WHY ISN'T MY CYCLE WORKING!? at the same rate that we have people making such claims in the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) forum.

Cliff notes;
-More profound changes in hypogonadal males. You're taking them from 0-60. Not necessarily quicker changes - it will all be based on their dose. If I recall correctly, this guy took a 200mg or 300mg dose of T. I'd argue the majority of the time that's going to make a healthy or non healthy guy feel better (again if all other factors are in control)
-Less profound changes in healthy males. Not going from 0-60, going from 55 to 60. Quicker results, with all else being equal.
 
I hope wee can agree that the rule of diminishing returns applies here - i.e., if you're already very well off on T, the less the benefits are going to change your life and vice versa.

I'll quote myself. This is the short version of the long winded answer I gave in my prior post.
 
trying to start TRT

First of all I'm 30 years old 300 pounds and 6 foot 2 ,Years ago I used to be a lot bigger, and in much better shape I was in the Navy for 6 years. Seems like all I did was work out back then Nowadays eh not so much. That's not saying I don't work out but not nearly the same level I used too. That being said things are changing because of a really good friend of mine, he insisted I had low T. he asked me a whole pack of questions aparently I failed the test because when we were done he told me I needed to go see a doctor. so I did! My Idiot doctor said it was ridiculous for me to even consider testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) at my age that I was fine? Notice I did say idiot doctor! I went back to my friend and said my doc didn't think it was a good idea he ask if the doctor bother to check my blood levels? To which I replied no! So my buddy said f*** the doctor And gave me a 2-ml shot of test C about 400 milligrams. Man did I ever see a difference! All of the low T bull crap I had experienced For the last 4 years by the way went away within 3 weeks. I went back to my friend three weeks later and told him that he saved my life! All my symptoms went away! I was losing weight I had a sex drive again I had a huge amount of energy and generally felt awesome! So at that point I did another two ml's of test C .i then went back to my doctor informed him of what I done And man did he give me a blood test because I wanted to know what my levels were at. so we did and they came back with a total of 600? He expected them to be much higher And said that I probably did have a low level to begin nwith.now he won't write me a prescription with my level being at 600. He didn't sis did that I would have to drop down to 200 to 250 range in order for him to write me a prescription. (Wtf) So I didn't began My own research. I've learned a lot about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) a lot about where I need to be what kind of dose need to take But The problem is going to be a finding a doctor! I live in a live in soldotna Alaska so it's not like I have a lot of options up here. I even checked with another doctor basically told me to f*** offthe bc he didn't want to deal with an anabolic abuser? So when I was looking around the internet I saw buy test C here buy testosterone here and I thought well hell I'll just use one of these! What a f****** dumb idea! Because they just took my money? Anyway my best hope at this point is to lower my levels low enough to get my doctor wright itfor me. So my question would be do any of you guys have any suggestions.

THIS IS MY ORIGINAL POST!

AND I'M NOT AN IDIOT, I can certainly tell the difference between 0 to 60 And 55 to 60. Also my claims trtr not completely unfounded, My first doctor informed me that to have those rates After the injections I took Would be impossible. His hangup was being able to believe me on the fact that I really took those injections. I went from sitting on my ass watching netflix on my two weeks off from work To love and my wife riding a Harley And generally feeling like a million bucks.
And no I don't think I'm naturally lower testosterone, I'm almost convinced now by the research I've done that my low testosterone is due to the prescription drugs that I've been taking for the past 8 years ( Opiates) Prescribed by a doctor. Due to a 28 foot fall anda broken neck. The doctors that I have seen Simply don't believe in TRT! It really doesn't f****** matter anyway, I've got a f****** doctor prescribing me testosterone On Friday. I'm having labs done, And then I can get on here and say I told you so! But being as my low ttestosterone symptoms are returning.
And I'm back feeling like crap. I'm pretty sure they're going to show extremely low testosterone.
 
Now I can guarantee if you go to the AAS forums, you don't have guys two weeks into even a light cycle, saying WHY ISN'T MY CYCLE WORKING!?


I guarantee you have lots of noobs in the AAS section asking when they are going to feel the effects of their cycle kick in. Other than the possible psychological effects (which we know are not real) you just don't feel the impact right away like you say. We will have to agree to disagree on this one. But if you can't get past this, go ask the guys in the AAS section how long it usually takes for a long-estered testosterone only cycle (like test cyp) to kick in. I'm not talking about Prop.
 
yep, well it didnt take real long maybe 7-10 days but dammit , when it did kick in i had to hang on to something! i felt a major change bro!

maybe he's using too much or Sustanon (sust) or TNE?
 
141 iq, but thanks my moms all for it to! Matter of fact you seem to be the only one that's not.

Question is why? What's it to you? Are you a doctor? Or just suffering from Napoleon syndrome?
You hate me because I'm tall, Dont you.



Come on man lets be friends, you don't have a dog in this fight?
 
Or just suffering from Napoleon syndrome?
You hate me because I'm tall, Dont you.

LOL...that's some funny stuff...

totalb acts like he wants the mods to have a "Dislike" tab made for him....he's a prime example of not keeping the E2 in check.
 
Sorry, just not all for limp dick pansy ass cop outs

When he gets the diagnosis, Ill STFU rather than him having to STFU.

BTW, you're misreading the symptoms of E2. These are totally alpha male characteristics and not estrogen characteristics. Maybe I should get my T tested. :)
 
I'm guessing these results didn't come back the way you expected?

I've been waiting for you to dance on my grave and tell me I'm wrong...
 
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