Post PCT, High Estrogen, WTF?

[halfwit]

If my LH is the culprit, how do I get that to normalize?

That really depends on what is causing it. If there's a problem with your pituitary gland (not likely, but possible), it might require your doctor to intervene. Otherwise, it could just be as simple as waiting it out and letting time do its thing.

 

[DreDay187]

I think Halfwit is right (but I'm not doctor lol). You're LH is really high possibly causing the production of such high test and estrogen levels. Exemstane should help you control estrogen pretty effectively but if the root cause is related to high LH, than as soon as you stop the stane your levels will go right back up (provided it wasn't a time healing issue like Half said or you find the root cause and treat it).
Some people take longer than others to come back to normal and some metabolize drugs differently. You've been off cycle for at least a month now I think so there should be no active metabolites of test in your system. What other compounds are you on, maybe this could be partially due to a side effect of something. I know you're taking tamoxifen now and a quick google search turned up this little tidbit, it's on men with an enlarged prostate (which not sure how that would affect the results of the study) but shows some sides of tamoxifen:

Treatment of 9 patients with benign prostatic hyperplasia with 20 mg tamoxifen daily for 6 weeks resulted in a significant increase of LH (211%), FSH (215%), E2 (231%), total T (157%), free T (148%) and total DHT (148%) levels in blood.[/B]

Effects of tamoxifen on the levels of l - PubMed Mobile

And another one

The administration of tamoxifen, 20 mg/day for 10 days, to normal males produced a moderate increase in luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), testosterone, and estradiol levels, comparable to the effect of 150 mg of clomiphene citrate (Clomid). However, whereas Clomid produced a decrease in the LH response to LH-releasing hormone (LHRH), no such effect was seen after the administration of tamoxifen. In fact, prolonged treatment (6 weeks) with tamoxifen significantly increased the LH response to LHRL.

Hormonal effects of an antiestrogen, ta - PubMed Mobile

I don't know how far-fetched of an idea it is to think tamoxifen is the root cause of this but maybe it's contributing to the problem all the while you're using it to treat the gyno. Besides all your hormonal levels getting higher the more tests you take (all during this time your levels should be dropping if everything was going correctly) the only common link I see is your still taking nolva. Again I don't think only nolva would cause this but is it playing a role in making it worse idk??

 

[halfwit]

Holy crap Doc, I was actually looking for studies done on LH impact by Nolva and found nothing of the sort. Your tiger style google-fu is strong!

 

[DreDay187]

Holy crap Doc, I was actually looking for studies done on LH impact by Nolva and found nothing of the sort. Your tiger style google-fu is strong!

The force is strong with this one!! Hahaha. Dude if you weren't married and we were both gay I think I'd propose to you. Not only can you come up with things like "tiger style google-fu" but you're s,art as fuck and humble about it too. Of course I'd have to be the one proposing bc I want to wear the long pants, idc if you're like twice my size lol.

The only theme I'm picking up on here is the further he gets from the time he aborted the cycle the higher his hormone levels are getting AND his continued nolva use for gyno. Maybe if my_pitch gets his letro and stane he can lower E2 to the point gyno is suppressed. Once or if this happens, he can cycle off nolva and after a couple weeks get retested. This way we can see if nolva is playing a role in this problem or not

 

[halfwit]

The force is strong with this one!! Hahaha. Dude if you weren't married and we were both gay I think I'd propose to you. Not only can you come up with things like "tiger style google-fu" but you're s,art as fuck and humble about it too. Of course I'd have to be the one proposing bc I want to wear the long pants, idc if you're like twice my size lol.

The only theme I'm picking up on here is the further he gets from the time he aborted the cycle the higher his hormone levels are getting AND his continued nolva use for gyno. Maybe if my_pitch gets his letro and stane he can lower E2 to the point gyno is suppressed. Once or if this happens, he can cycle off nolva and after a couple weeks get retested. This way we can see if nolva is playing a role in this problem or not

LOL! Man, after getting out of the homosexual thread to having you propose to me - I'm feeling kinda funny. Seriously, if I didn't have an utter love of the female form, I'd definitely have you sucking your "wife's" dick.

Yeah, I'm kind of wondering here if his levels will taper off as that LH is almost FOUR TIMES greater than the upper end of the range, so if it's the nolva, he's fighting an uphill battle. I would definitely at least get on the stane as taking both might be a bit on the extreme end, and I would hate to crash that E2, making him feel like utter crap. This is definitely a tough one as I do know a pituitary tumor can cause this as well, but without having that MD and access to an MRI - the best we can really do is guess.

Note: I'm sorry for talking about you in third person Pitch, but I'm kind of just spitting out my thoughts as they come to me. Oh, and don't get worried about the tumor part, although I would hope that your doctor is at least willing to take a look at it since it's a HUGE part of what's going on here.

 

[My_Pitch27]

both of you have provided me with a lot of information.... I will try and push it upon my endo to have an MRI of my pituitary just to be sure. I'm leaning with the fact that the tamoxifen is causing my lh to raise, which in turn in causing my levels to be higher than normal as well... I'll be switching over to Raloxifene shortly. I'm taking anastrozole at 12.5mg ed for now and then re evaluate in 2 weeks when my next blood test is.... if things arent improving, letro it is....oh and im still waiting to hear back from my endo about giving me anastrozole... lol

what do u guys think?

LOL! Man, after getting out of the homosexual thread to having you propose to me - I'm feeling kinda funny. Seriously, if I didn't have an utter love of the female form, I'd definitely have you sucking your "wife's" dick.

Yeah, I'm kind of wondering here if his levels will taper off as that LH is almost FOUR TIMES greater than the upper end of the range, so if it's the nolva, he's fighting an uphill battle. I would definitely at least get on the stane as taking both might be a bit on the extreme end, and I would hate to crash that E2, making him feel like utter crap. This is definitely a tough one as I do know a pituitary tumor can cause this as well, but without having that MD and access to an MRI - the best we can really do is guess.

Note: I'm sorry for talking about you in third person Pitch, but I'm kind of just spitting out my thoughts as they come to me. Oh, and don't get worried about the tumor part, although I would hope that your doctor is at least willing to take a look at it since it's a HUGE part of what's going on here.

 

[halfwit]

both of you have provided me with a lot of information.... I will try and push it upon my endo to have an MRI of my pituitary just to be sure. I'm leaning with the fact that the tamoxifen is causing my lh to raise, which in turn in causing my levels to be higher than normal as well... I'll be switching over to Raloxifene shortly. I'm taking anastrozole at 12.5mg ed for now and then re evaluate in 2 weeks when my next blood test is.... if things arent improving, letro it is....oh and im still waiting to hear back from my endo about giving me anastrozole... lol

what do u guys think?

You mean you're taking 12.5mg of exemestane, right? Don't mix arimidex (anastrozole) with tamoxifen, as it seriously reduces the ability of the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to do its thing. I'm definitely going to be keeping an eye on this thread as I'm dying to know what your doc has to say and hope they aren't borderline retarded. I agree though, it very well could be the nolva working too well...

 

[My_Pitch27]

No I'm not taking the anastrozole along with the tamoxifen, although I have it on hand in case... but I know that tamoxifen decreases the effectiveness of anastrozole by like 20-30% or something...

I'm using stane from rui right now... letro on the way.... raloxifene on the way, going to switch from tamoixfene to raloxifene.... and still waiting to hear back from my endo... if she cant get this shit together i'm going to have no choice other than to run what will help me decrease my gyno -

i have another blood test on the 14th, so we will have some new info then... i think maybe youre right about the tamoxifene just working too well, lol...
Thanks halfwit and docd!!!!! you guys are awesome!!!!
stay posted!

You mean you're taking 12.5mg of exemestane, right? Don't mix arimidex (anastrozole) with tamoxifen, as it seriously reduces the ability of the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to do its thing. I'm definitely going to be keeping an eye on this thread as I'm dying to know what your doc has to say and hope they aren't borderline retarded. I agree though, it very well could be the nolva working too well...

 

[My_Pitch27]

::Update::

My endo said no on the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and recommended me to continue on the Tamoxifen at 40mg/day and said if I wasn't happy with her advice, I could get a second opinion. I'm going to get that second opinion, switch to Raloxifene 60mg/day and bring out the big guns- letro....

 

[SicVic]

::Update::

My endo said no on the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and recommended me to continue on the Tamoxifen at 40mg/day and said if I wasn't happy with her advice, I could get a second opinion. I'm going to get that second opinion, switch to Raloxifene 60mg/day and bring out the big guns- letro....

So I guess shes not a True Love Doctor, That breaks it off proper.

 

[halfwit]

::Update::

My endo said no on the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and recommended me to continue on the Tamoxifen at 40mg/day and said if I wasn't happy with her advice, I could get a second opinion. I'm going to get that second opinion, switch to Raloxifene 60mg/day and bring out the big guns- letro....

Aren't you glad your doctor gave you her permission to get another opinion? Gotta love doctors. Definitely keep us posted!

 

[My_Pitch27]

Aren't you glad your doctor gave you her permission to get another opinion? Gotta love doctors. Definitely keep us posted!

Will do Halfwit! Thanks man....
Rui- Please don't fail me... LoL

 

[My_Pitch27]

So I guess shes not a True Love Doctor, That breaks it off proper.

HaHa- no love doctor after all, but I do have to commend her for prescribing me the nolva.... shit, I've heard horror stories where doctors were like, "nope, you fucked up. good luck!"

 

[My_Pitch27]

Updated values:

6-14-2013 blood work
Total Test 1176 range 248-1100
e2 24 range <39
LH 29.8 range 1.5-9.3
FSH 11.6 range 1.6-8.0
TSH 3.38 (Don't have paper results so I don't know the range, will have them on Friday)
Free T4 1.1 (Don't have paper results so I don't know the range, will have them on Friday)

Currently taking letro suicide run to reverse gyno and switched from Tamoxifen 40mg/day to Raloxifene 60mg/day on 6-15-2013.
Prior to this my e2 was at 115, I believe this can be attributed to the Tamoxifen.

My endo wouldn't prescribe anything to lower my e2 levels so I took it upon myself to give Cbino's gyno reversal a shot...

Can anyone comment on me possibly being diagnosed with hypothyroidism? My endo says that it is a possibility and prescribed me levothyroxine, but I told her I want to run a few more bloods to get an average.... any thoughts? halfwit?

 

[My_Pitch27]

bump

 

[My_Pitch27]

bumpy bump

 

[mc30]

Well, those are pretty crazy numbers man. I would have expected to see them either at really low values (meaning it was still exogenous test) or around 3-4 each, meaning you're making a recovery and just had some rebound from your Aromatase inhibitor (AI). You're not at dangerous levels of estradiol imho, but I would keep an eye out for sides of being that high such as itchy nipples and let your endo know. Hopefully your doc knows more than us in this case and is right that it's just some sort of compensatory response and it resolves on its own. The blood test in 3 weeks will tell us for sure (hopefully).

You have bounced back, just a bit more than it's "supposed" to. I didn't mean to scare you if I sounded too shocked. The human body just continues to amaze me sometimes.

I was going through the posts and I was hoping to get some advice on a pct issue. I took several different kinds of prohormones for over a year with a month or so off in between. I stopped taking them due to having stiffness in my muscles. I did not perform any pct since I was told that I didn't need to and I believed them since they had taken roids for years while competing. Anyways, I got checked out last year and my test was 228 out of a 327-827 scale, I did a power pct minus hcg and got my levels to 600 out of the same scale. After about 8 weeks they went down again to 172 and lower when I crashed, which has happened prior to my taking supplements since the symptoms were very similar. Not long after that I found out that I have sleep apnea, which may explain why my htpa never recovered fully. Since then I have been taking 25mg of clomid daily for a few months now, and using a cpap for the last two months. I plan on using some different combos of serms like ralox, and torem if another power pct does not work, and triporelin if those do not work either. Can anyone give me some extra advice? Btw here are my last labs

FSH 12.8 (1.5-12.4)

Testosterone 624 (249-836)

Free Test 145 (47-244)

Percent free Test 2%

LH 22.7 (1.7-8.6)

Prolactin 14.2 (4-15.2)

Estradiol <5 (8-43)

SHBG 27 (10-80)