My_Pitch27
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Compounding pharmacy with my name on it.
Post PCT, High Estrogen, WTF?
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Compounding pharmacy with my name on it.
My_Pitch27
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That I can agree with, but it's common for testosterone levels to be much lower in the case of a pituitary tumor, hence why it's a major cause of secondary hypogonadism. This is also why I feel it would be good to see those LH/FSH levels as these are generated in the pituitary gland.I agree though, it doesn't really matter what we think as none of us are doctors and the best we can do is guess and shouldn't be taken as a substitute for medical care. The only reason I have an inkling for any of this is because of my own case of hypogonadism that was overlooked by many doctors over the years, leading me to have to do my own homework over the years.
Here are my results guys.... My endo said my pituitary is overcompensating and this is normal (she knows the deal)... but said that I have a bit of Hypothyroidism (based on labs prior to me taking Tetosterone) and prescribed me levothyroxine 25mcg 1x day... any advice on this? I don't know anything about a slightly over active thyroid.
5/13/13
Estrogen 177 range 130 or less
FSH 11.0 range 1.6-8.0
LH 26.6 range 1.5-9.3
Total Testosterone 1032 range 241-827
5/17/13 ( I had another blood test a few days later to compare )
Estradiol (e2) 96 range 39 or less
FSH 12.7 range 1.6-8.0
LH 29.2 range 1.5-9.3
Total Testosterone 1152 range 241-827
thanks guys
halfwit
I like turtles.
Crikey! Your pituitary gland is having a field day! I've NEVER seen LH/FSH that high, that's impressive. She believes that to be normal and is only prescribing T4? I'd ask her to get an MRI just to rule out a tumor as suggested by Beck-Miester. I know clomid can induce the release of these hormones, but that's just...wow! Do you have a follow up appointment with her?
My_Pitch27
New member
I do have a follow up appointment with her in a month. I asked her if it were possible that it was a tumor and she said no. I have another blood test in 3 weeks. Is it really that crazy? I mean I feel like my body is just bouncing back? What are your thoughts
halfwit
I like turtles.
Well, those are pretty crazy numbers man. I would have expected to see them either at really low values (meaning it was still exogenous test) or around 3-4 each, meaning you're making a recovery and just had some rebound from your Aromatase inhibitor (AI). You're not at dangerous levels of estradiol imho, but I would keep an eye out for sides of being that high such as itchy nipples and let your endo know. Hopefully your doc knows more than us in this case and is right that it's just some sort of compensatory response and it resolves on its own. The blood test in 3 weeks will tell us for sure (hopefully).
You have bounced back, just a bit more than it's "supposed" to. I didn't mean to scare you if I sounded too shocked. The human body just continues to amaze me sometimes.
My_Pitch27
New member
Well, those are pretty crazy numbers man. I would have expected to see them either at really low values (meaning it was still exogenous test) or around 3-4 each, meaning you're making a recovery and just had some rebound from your Aromatase inhibitor (AI). You're not at dangerous levels of estradiol imho, but I would keep an eye out for sides of being that high such as itchy nipples and let your endo know. Hopefully your doc knows more than us in this case and is right that it's just some sort of compensatory response and it resolves on its own. The blood test in 3 weeks will tell us for sure (hopefully).
You have bounced back, just a bit more than it's "supposed" to. I didn't mean to scare you if I sounded too shocked. The human body just continues to amaze me sometimes.
Yeah I'm hoping that my body is just bouncing back hard and thats just what I have to go through.... i will post next labs as well.... until then, i'm researching on hypothyroidism...damnitt!
halfwit
I like turtles.
I hope so too, it would be a definite learning experience for both of us as I had never heard of this happening! I wish I could help you more with the hypothyroidism, but I am woefully uneducated in that department.
My_Pitch27
New member
I hope so too, it would be a definite learning experience for both of us as I had never heard of this happening! I wish I could help you more with the hypothyroidism, but I am woefully uneducated in that department.
Thank you for your input halfwit, greatly appreciated. I'll be doing my homework on the hypothyroidism before i take any of the pills. lol
Beck-Miester
New member
I hope so too, it would be a definite learning experience for both of us as I had never heard of this happening! I wish I could help you more with the hypothyroidism, but I am woefully uneducated in that department.
LOL!! I think that HW and I have FAR too much in common....a deep seated desire for knowledge about this stuff: As soon as you mentioned hypothyroidism, I started my scouring of the web. I know that it's wikipedia, but it covers the "basics" of the HPT axis, and how the thyroid affects the pituitary..: Hypothalamic?pituitary?thyroid axis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Its actually an interesting read...
My_Pitch27
New member
Thank you for the read.
I've heard good things about levo, currently trying to get my sister to switch to levo from synthroid as the sides are almost as bad as her hypothyroidism. She's also got diabetes along with the hypothyroidism but her doctor refuses to consider any other medications. Do you happen to have the results for your labs from before the testosterone cycle? I'd be interested in seeing some of your numbers. I'm not exactly sure on what "physical" symptoms you may have of the hypothyroidism but if its not bad maybe wait until your body returns back to normal from after the cycle and get another test done to verify your thyroid is under active. It seems to me (at least the way you worded it) that your doctor wasn't 100% sure but was more apt to treat possible issues before they arose.
My_Pitch27
New member
You're absolutely right. She said it's a possibility but not definite. Here are my lab results (mind you, these are prior to taking anything and my first complete panel) from january, which is what she went off of for the thyroid problem. I think I'm going to wait a month or two and get re checked for everything then consider taking the levo medication for my thyroid. I'm a believer that one lab test doesn't determine my end results anymore.
Lab from 1/2/2013
T3 Uptake 36 range 22-35%
T4(thyroxine) 5.1 range 4.5-12.0
TSH 3.94 range 0.40-4.50
If anyone else can shed some slight on this subject, please feel free
In post #22 you mention your doctor tentatively diagnosing you with HYPOthyroidsim but say you don't know anything about OVERactive thyroid. HYPO is UNDERactive and HYPER is OVERactive. Which one did you mean?
I'm not a doctor but from my readings T3 uptake isn't related to the hormone production, its basically has to do with the kind of proteins in your blood that are able to carry T3 (ex. albumin). Low T3 uptake means that there are not enought FREE proteins to carry T3 to to the cells. Either because your body is not producing enough of those proteins or because you are producing A LOT of thyroid hormones (something that hypothyroid people CAN'T DO) that take up most of these proteins and ergo the lower ratio. In other words The more thyroid hormone that is present, the lesser your T3 Uptake value will be. There are some doctors who view T3 uptake as "It is an old test designed with a purpose of indirectly measuring T4! It was developed before we were able to accurately measure T4 levels. The assumption was that if the patient had a high T4 level, the blood proteins would be saturated with it. Therefore when mixed with T3 (which is easier to measure), the blood proteins would take up very little T3. Thus a low T3 uptake implies elevated T4 levels and vice versa. Thus the T3 Uptake test is actually an antiquated, inaccurate way to measure T4 levels." Either way I think its the least important test to worry about in your panel.
Thyroxine, or T4, is the main hormone secreted by the thyroid. the amount of T4 in the bloodstream affects the release of TSH by the pituitary gland, which subsequently affects thyroid function. For example, if levels of T4 are low, the pituitary gland will increase production of TSH, which will then stimulate the thyroid into secreting more T4. Conversely, if T4 levels are high, the pituitary gland will decrease TSH.
TSH is created and secreted by the pituitary gland and is responsible for regulating the hormonal (endocrine) function of the thyroid gland. More specifically, TSH causes the thyroid to release thyroxine (T4) and triiodothyronine (T3), other hormones necessary for bodily function.
Now low TSH can mean hyperthyroidism since it means that your pituitary gland is trying to overcompensate for high hormone levels and it slows hormone priduction by the thyroid in an attempt to bring levels back to baseline. The opposite is true for high TSH, the pituitary gland senses not enough thyroidal hormones and ramps up TSH in an attempt to restore levels once again. So high TSH can mean hypothyroidism.
Low T4 and high TSH could mean hypothyroidism while low t4 and low TSH could be a pituitary problem.
^^^^that last part is where I think your doctor is saying its a possibility but not definite bc while your T4 is in range technically, its in the lower side of the minimum and your TSH is on the higher side towards maximum.
I would ask to get free T3 and T4 levels checked as these numbers are just as important as total T3/4 numbers along with TSH, but you already have that one.
One other thing to note in your case is that estrogen dominance (high levels of estrogen relative to other hormones) will usually raise your total T3/4 levels BUT NOT free T3/4 levels. All the more reason to consider getting retested for the FREE T3/4 values. Also redo the test, LH, FSH, and estrogen panels when you're system is clear of the long estered test and any PCT medications. You want an accurate level, not one muddied by PCT compounds. Hope this was of some use to you brother!
halfwit
I like turtles.
It's the TSH that triggered the hypo diagnosis. Anything over 3 is usually pre-hypothyroidic and under 1 is hyperthyroidic. HAH, I did know something of value....maybe? Do you really think his high E2 is THAT out of ratio to cause this Doc? Like I stated earlier, I'm definitely not well versed at all in thyroid issues, but I thought as long as the ratio was at LEAST 10:1 - there shouldn't be any major impact on the rest of the HPTA?
I'm not well versed either just what I've learned to help my sis out but I was referring to the hypothyroidism diagnosis. The high levels of estrogen may have played a role in the hypothyroidism which is why I'd like to see if he had a test/estradiol panel done before hand and what the numbers were. This is like asking what came first the chicken or the egg. Whether the thyroid or pituitary is affecting the HPTA or vice versa I'm not educated enough to tell. You can see though from the 2tests he posted last, his natty test, LH, FSH, and E2 are all going up. I think this might bc he's still taking tamox which I've seen studies CAN effect HpTa (just not as much as clomid I think).
My_Pitch, can you post ALL your blood work tests: test, LH, FSH, estradiol, T3/4 etc in chronological order from the beginning and list them test by test so we know what numbers were with what test and when? That could help out instead of having to keep going back and forth and seeing them all listed chronologically. I would also CEASE all medications/drugs not prescribed to you by your doctor well before your next upcoming test. You want an ACCURATE test result p, not one influenced by self-medication. Maybe even hold off on the levo (if your doctor agrees with this) to get everything accurate and baseline for where you're at now. Try to take the blood work at the same time of day as all your other tests too, you don't want numbers skewed bc some test are in the AM and maybe fasted while others are in a fed state late in the evening. One more thing, torem and letro I believe are better than raloxifene so after the blood test maybe try using them instead of ralox.
My_Pitch27
New member
Thank you for all this information. My doctor did say hypothyroidism (and I double checked her notes she gave me) and I also agree that it would be a good idea to get retested (when I'm done taking the tamoxifen) for my T3, T4 free and total, tsh, lh, fsh to compare the two. But in the meantime here are my labs in chronological order, the [[ means I was on cycle ]]....oh, and my doctor is open to me holding off on the levo medication. I clearly told her that I want to do my research and can't guarantee I will take the medication. She's pretty cool.
Now not everything was tested on each of these labs, so well, have a look
1/2/2013 - post use of any type of anabolic steroids
Total test 619
Free test 106.9
TSH 3.94
T4 5.1
T3 36%
3/16/2013 [[on cycle]]
Total test >1500
e2 41.5
LH <0.2
FSH 0.4
3/29/2013 [[on cycle]]
Total test >1500
e2 67.4
LH 0.2
FSH 0.2
4/10/2013 [[aborted cycle, in between pct and last injection]]
Total test 917
e2 14.9
LH 0.2
FSH 0.2
4/19/2013
Total test 247
4/27/2013
Total test 746
e2 51
LH 16.8
FSH 7.8
Prolactin 4.1
5/13/2013
Total test 1032
e2 177
LH 26.6
FSH 11
5/17/2013
Total test 1152
e2 97
LH 29.2
FSH 12.7
that's everything from the beginning...
My_Pitch27
New member
So my PCT ended on 5/13 and I had blood work done again on 5/31 and here are my results... (I'm also taking Tamoxifen 40mg/day for gyno symptoms but will be tapering that slowly at 30/30/20/20/10/10)
5/31 blood work
Total Test 1187
Estradiol 115
LH 23.6
FSH 11
5/17 blood work
Total Test 1152
Estradiol 96
LH 29.2
FSH 12.7
My endo knows my situation and I'm trying to get her to prescribe me an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like anastrozole to help lower my estrogen, but she isn't budging.
Can anyone tell me why I'm experiencing these elevated levels and why my estrogen isn't coming down to normal levels? I feel like I may need to take matters into my own hands if my estrogen doesn't begin to come down.... or am I just not being patient and need to wait longer for my levels to return to normal?
Thank you all...
5/31 blood work
Total Test 1187
Estradiol 115
LH 23.6
FSH 11
5/17 blood work
Total Test 1152
Estradiol 96
LH 29.2
FSH 12.7
My endo knows my situation and I'm trying to get her to prescribe me an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like anastrozole to help lower my estrogen, but she isn't budging.
Can anyone tell me why I'm experiencing these elevated levels and why my estrogen isn't coming down to normal levels? I feel like I may need to take matters into my own hands if my estrogen doesn't begin to come down.... or am I just not being patient and need to wait longer for my levels to return to normal?
Thank you all...
Last edited:
halfwit
I like turtles.
I'm going out on a limb here, but with LH levels like those, I bet your body thinks it's making too much testosterone and therefore is bumping up the aromatase - making more estrogen. Sorry man, but if it were me - I'd be on RUI's website right now snagging a bottle of stane to get that back down. A lot of doctors are scared of prescribing medication for off-label use (AI's are intended for women after all), which is probably why she is being so hesitant. Otherwise, you can hope that your levels normalize over time - which is probably what she's hoping for too.
My_Pitch27
New member
Thanks halfwit-
I actually did snag a bottle of stane from rui... I have some letro on the way as well...
she is hoping that they will just come down naturally, but i feel like, shit they arent!
My_Pitch27
New member
If my LH is the culprit, how do I get that to normalize?
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