Question about gain retention

[Vexulan]

While I know that one should not cycle without being at their genetic maximum, I also know that you can not retain greater-than-genetic gains without continuing cycles. On that note, if one were to cycle without being at their genetic maximum, would they be able to retain their gains without ever cycling again? I ask this because in my head, if you can make enough test to get to said "maximum", surely you could take test, then recover to your natural levels, and maintain your genetic maximum. Am I crazy?

P.S. Good training routine, diet, and sleep will be maintained.

 

[Mad- scientist]

Its possible. But still hard. I find that once you get sick or something and you loose those steroid gains even at your genetic potential or under it its hard to get it back without steroids or impossible damn near. It seems very hard to me personally. It also depends on how good you recover your natural testosterone after a cycle.

 

[Beast666]

use HGH

 

[DreDay187]

While I know that one should not cycle without being at their genetic maximum, I also know that you can not retain greater-than-genetic gains without continuing cycles. On that note, if one were to cycle without being at their genetic maximum, would they be able to retain their gains without ever cycling again? I ask this because in my head, if you can make enough test to get to said "maximum", surely you could take test, then recover to your natural levels, and maintain your genetic maximum. Am I crazy?

P.S. Good training routine, diet, and sleep will be maintained.

Yes it's completely possible to keep steroid induced gains which are still within your natural potential. The limiting factors would be how effective your diet and training are.

 

[Vexulan]

Dr. Dre and MadScientist--thank you very much! Beast, this was suggested to me--but seems impossible to find, and if you do, it's a fortune. Can you provide some insight for me? Thanks!

 

[DreDay187]

Dr. Dre and MadScientist--thank you very much! Beast, this was suggested to me--but seems impossible to find, and if you do, it's a fortune. Can you provide some insight for me? Thanks!

You're welcome

Wats your cycle history like? I would personally hold off on HGH depending on cycle history, goals, etc.

 

[Vexulan]

I actually have zero cycle history. I keep reading around, but don't want to shoot test if I'm just going to lose my gains if I stop taking it--regardless of diet/training/sleep/etc.

 

[DreDay187]

I actually have zero cycle history. I keep reading around, but don't want to shoot test if I'm just going to lose my gains if I stop taking it--regardless of diet/training/sleep/etc.

Don't do GH yet in that case.

You'll only lose progress made that's beyond your genetic potential, again that's if your diet and training is conducive to retaining your gains from cycle. Also don't confuse the drop in water weight when coming off cycle as a loss in gains, it's simply water those first weeks.

 

[Vexulan]

Don't do GH yet in that case.

You'll only lose progress made that's beyond your genetic potential, again that's if your diet and training is conducive to retaining your gains from cycle. Also don't confuse the drop in water weight when coming off cycle as a loss in gains, it's simply water those first weeks.

I really appreciate the insight, I think I'll dive in for one cycle of test at least!

 

[Mad- scientist]

For the money involved with hgh. It would be a waste to run without testosterone and insulin to be honest. And that is a entirely knew level of danger and abuse considering what you consider abuse. But its dangerous. And I think insulin is best to only be used if you are a real competitive body builder. And still to be 100% honest only if you have the genetics to really do good. I mean why run insulin to be a low level competitor in the NPC. If bodybuilding is your life and you have been using steroids for like 3 to 4 years in all sorts of combinations and are 100 percent on point on diet and body fat and training. Than consider insulin. But still realistically we all will have to pay the price one day if we abuse performance enhancing drugs past a certain degree. I mean a cycle or 2 a year of not to harsh of steroids with the right diet and blood work can usually be all reversible damage. But at a certain point when you are doing crazy long cycles and adding in insulin and hgh for 6 months and on steroids for 6 months. Your going to run into multiple different problems from possible acne, prostate enlargement, insulin DE sensitivity, increased bone growth all over the body from hgh. And of course the possibility of fucking up one time out of 1000 different insulin dosages and overdosing. A lot of shit is played down because people don't want to look at the facts and consequences of their actions. And they become desensitized to the possible dangers by all of us gathering to gather in one spot and glorifying gains and the life style. Not to mention steroids will give you a superman type of feeling where you are more likely to say fuck it why not add in one more substance this user does it and this guy does it why shouldn't I. Lol a lot of people don't share the negative consequences of their actions on the forum. But their are consequences. So my recommendation is take it slow. And once steroids aren't doing it for you anymore look into hgh and insulin. But unless your goal is to go pro and you have the genetics and honest experienced bodybuilders who have competed agree you have the genetics not just your weight lifting friends keep it safe and simple.

 

[Mad- scientist]

Pct is healthy for the body. And muscle memory is not a myth by any means. Your muscles will re-appear like the creepy guy at the bar that's drunk and won't leave your table quicker than you can imagine. Honestly the entire subject of loosing gains and pct is way to complicated to get into and no one will want to read what I have to write. And at the end of the day it still is mostly bro science. Proven bro science but still bro science.

 

[Rastas]

Pct is healthy for the body. And muscle memory is not a myth by any means. Your muscles will re-appear like the creepy guy at the bar that's drunk and won't leave your table quicker than you can imagine. Honestly the entire subject of loosing gains and pct is way to complicated to get into and no one will want to read what I have to write. And at the end of the day it still is mostly bro science. Proven bro science but still bro science.

You make me laugh. I love reading your posts.

 

[Mad- scientist]

You make me laugh. I love reading your posts.

lol thank u

 

[Vexulan]

Pct is healthy for the body. And muscle memory is not a myth by any means. Your muscles will re-appear like the creepy guy at the bar that's drunk and won't leave your table quicker than you can imagine. Honestly the entire subject of loosing gains and pct is way to complicated to get into and no one will want to read what I have to write. And at the end of the day it still is mostly bro science. Proven bro science but still bro science.

Hit me with it, I WILL read it. I'm after the full story of consequences and all. I know almost no one will post them, as why would you admit you did something silly--but I want to know. Everyone who says to stack or slack on test and pct has zero fucks to give about if I have no hair and dribble-piss on myself in 3 years. lol

 

[Mad- scientist]

Lol basically the thing with PCT is some people are genetically inclined towards keeping more gains when they come off of steroids. It is hard to tell why. But that is one factor. Also if some one is to bridge their cycles with a drug like HGH or insulin or SARMS. You still are keeping your gains with drugs and still the human body is very complex and its hard to tell what happens when you add in these different substances and if your testosterone is going to rebound to normal like it should. Im not saying it will not rebound at all. I am just saying that if you are loosing muscle at a fast rate and your body senses it their is a possibility that your body is going to respond with increasing your testosterone levels more than if you were to use other drugs to hold onto the muscle.

I have no proof. But I think that your body can not go back to normal tell all substances are out of it. Creatine and vitamins and all that are different. But when your putting insulin and hgh in your body in between cycles to hold on to gains it could very well some how mess with your body's response to how much testosterone it is going to release naturally again. And basically by throwing off one hormone in your body you could be throwing off the entire balance of how your body would restore testosterone normally. So my honest advice is if you are recreationally doing steroids just to look better and do not want to go on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) ever or be a top level amateur bodybuilder just stick to basic cycles and a great pct and use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) through out your cycle. And of course stay off the cycle as long as you were on it.

When it comes down to health consequences that is different with every single person. But if you stick to a basic or medium cycle and get pre blood work and middle blood work and post blood work. You should be 100% able to identify any health problem that is going to be your "normal" steroid induced health problem. The things the normal person has to worry about is cholesterol, blood pressure, hair loss, prostate enlargement, and the HCT count in your blood. And of course Gyno.

Really though I think if you start running mega huge cycles that is where the problems will start to come in at. And with harsher compounds like tren, winstrol, halostein, and even some of the problems from EQ. My advice to any one looking to use steroids or use them and not have it effect their life for the long run is simply. Do a cycle during summer of something like 500mgs of testosterone/ 600mgs of primo/ and than maybe add in something like anavar to kick start the cycle. I mean just looking good through the summer is not a bad option. And if you eat healthy and are already in good shape year round you can achieve the exact body any girl would want with that stack. Basically start a stack like that at around 10% body fat and maintain that level of body fat or cut a little lower and you will look great.

But for the guy wanting to look like a freak and be 240 or more he is going to run into health problems. Some where down the road. Or even just small problems like hair loss and high blood pressure. But still once you start pushing to get really big. It has a lot to do with high doses of steroids. And it will eventually shut your testosterone down and you will be on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). Some guys are lucky and might not end up on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) but i would say most will. The only guys who are going to push massive dosages and have very small health problems or none are going to be a combination of the guys who have great genetics for drug tolerance combined with eating healthy every day. It starts to suck. Eating healthy every day is not fun and will wear on you mentally. The only way to stay healthy on steroids is a great diet to. You can't expect to run winstrol or other oral steroids while eating high cholesterol containing foods and not have it give you high cholesterol. Basically taking steroids for the long haul to get a great physique is just one part of the picture you need to eat healthy stay away from drinking and drugs and be careful of other random things to.

Their really is no amount of explanation I could write to touch upon the consequences of bodybuilding and steroids or post cycle therapy (pct). Pretty much the biggest thing any one has to worry about is a heart attack, stroke, or testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for life. lol well maybe a touch of liver tumors to top it off if you go to heavy on the oral steroids. That's why I say personally keep it to a cycle or 2 a year and stay away from tren,winstrol,halostein,anadrol and cycles longer than 4 months..... I don't always follow my own rules but this is what i would recommend to anyone who wanted a great physique and wanted to minimize the risks. Also NPP and deca are basically the hardest steroids to recover natural testosterone from to so i would take that into account. Well their you have it. That is my thoughts on how to minimize risks of steroids. If any of you don't like it go fuck your selfs and you should have stopped reading all this long before you had time to think of a negative comment to make. If i could take back doing steroids i probably wouldn't. But the thought does cross my mind. Having a great physique is not the answer to any problems any one has. It can be fun but it is not what it is glamorized to be. Lol just like if you go buy a Ferrari TRUST me it is not what the world wants you to think it will be like. Lol their wont be models driving around with you while your going to holly wood parties. Lol it will be guys at gas stations saying nice car. And you trying to find out new ways to mention you have a Ferrari in front of girls without sounding like a douche.

 

[Vexulan]

I appreciate the info and the time the write-up took!

 

[SteadyGains]

Great read, and spot on!

 

[jozifp103]

great post! sometimes we get so caught up in this lifestyle that we forget to stop and think of the consequences. It's hard to believe you're doing damage to yourself when you feel great and look great all the time. i think more of us need to read that post and take a step back.