Raloxifene (Evista) during PCT

[essays]

Intro:
Raloxifene is rarely talked about when concerning PCT medications. Currently, clomid and tamoxifen have been the "go to" for returning your system to homeostasis after prolonged steroid use.

I'm going to use this thread to bring to light some information that I hope will broaden everyone's perspectives on PCT. With that said, I am NOT going to tell you to stop using clomid or nolva, or both. In my opinion, the best PCT might actually be a combination of Raloxifene and Clomiphene (or possibly Tamoxifen).

Study One

The effects of selective estrogen receptor modulator treatment following hormone replacement therapy on elderly postmenopausal women with osteoporosis.

AuthorsHayashi T, et al. Show all Journal
Nitric Oxide. 2011 May 31;24(4):199-203. Epub 2011 Apr 13.

Affiliation
Department of Geriatrics, Nagoya University Graduate School of Medicine, Nagoya, Japan. hayashi@med.nagoya-u.ac.jp

Abstract
OBJECTIVES: A comparison between the atheroprotective and osteoprotective effects of the selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) raloxifene and those of hormone replacement therapy (HRT) has not been made in elderly women.

METHODS: A randomized prospective controlled trial was performed in a cohort of 32 elderly Japanese women with osteoporosis receiving Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) (estriol plus medroxyprogesterone) for more than 1 year. In 16 randomly selected subjects, Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) was changed to raloxifene therapy (60mg/day, 71.4±3.4 years, SERM group). The other 16 patients were continued on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) (71.8±2.9 years, Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) group). As a control group, 14 subjects were enrolled, did not take any medications and were age-matched to experimental patients (72.5±3.3 years, control group). Plasma lipids, TNF***945;, adiponectin, NO metabolites (NOx:NO2(-) and NO3(-)), cyclicGMP and bone-mineral density (BMD) were evaluated at baseline and at 26 and 52 weeks after enrollment.

RESULTS: SERM (Raloxifene) increased high-density-lipoprotein cholesterol levels and tended to decrease low-density-lipoprotein cholesterol levels (P=0.058) compared with baseline. Adiponectin, NOx and cGMP levels were significantly increased after 6 months compared with baseline or the Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) group. TNF***945; was decreased by raloxifene. In control subjects, no significant changes were observed in any of these markers. Bone-mineral density was higher at baseline in the raloxifene and Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) groups than in the control group, and BMD increased 12 months after baseline in the Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) and control group.

CONCLUSION: SERM improved BMD and endothelial function in elderly postmenopausal women with osteoporosis who had received Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), and these effects were comparable to or slightly stronger than those of HRT. Changes in adiponectin and TNF***945; may underlie the improvements in endothelial function, such as NO signaling.

Copyright © 2011 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

This study showed an increase in bone-mineral density, cGMP, Nitric Oxide, Good Cholesterol (HDL), Adiponectin (Adiponectin is a protein hormone that modulates a number of metabolic processes, including glucose regulation and fatty acid catabolism.) and showed a decrease in Bad Cholesterol (LDL). While none of these are specifically related to returning the hypothalamic pituitary gonadal axis to homeostasis, all of these are extremely beneficial to anyone, especially during PCT




Study Two
(I will post the FULL abstract of this study in a subsequent post)

Neuroendocrine regulation of growth hormone and androgen axes by selective estrogen receptor modulators in healthy men.

Authors
Birzniece V, Sata A, Sutanto S, Ho KK.
Journal
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2010 Dec;95(12):5443-8. Epub 2010 Sep 15.

Affiliation
Garvan Institute of Medical Research, Department of Endocrinology, St. Vincent's Hospital, and The University of New South Wales, Sydney, New South Wales 2010, Australia.

Abstract
CONTEXT: In men, the stimulation of GH and inhibition of LH secretion by testosterone requires aromatization to estradiol. Tamoxifen, a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM), possesses central estrogen antagonistic effect but peripheral hepatic agonist effect, lowering IGF-I. Thus, tamoxifen is likely to perturb the neuroendocrine regulation of GH and gonadal axes. Raloxifene, a SERM, is used for therapy of osteoporosis in both sexes. Its neuroendocrine effects in men are poorly understood.

OBJECTIVE: The aim was to compare the impact of raloxifene and tamoxifen on GH-IGF-I and gonadal axes in healthy men.

DESIGN: We conducted a randomized, open-label crossover study. Patients and Intervention: Ten healthy men were randomized to 2-wk sequential treatment with tamoxifen (10 and 20 mg/d) and raloxifene (60 and 120 mg/d), with a 2-wk intervening washout period.

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: We measured the GH response to arginine and circulating levels of IGF-I, LH, FSH, testosterone, and SHBG.

RESULTS: Tamoxifen, but not raloxifene, significantly reduced IGF-I levels by 25±6% (P<0.01) and increased SHBG levels by 20±7% (P<0.05) at the higher therapeutic dose. There was a nonstatistically significant trend toward a reduction in the GH response to arginine with both SERMs. Both drugs significantly increased LH, FSH, and testosterone concentrations. The mean increase in testosterone (40 vs. 25%; P<0.05) and LH (70 vs. 30%; P<0.01) was significantly greater with tamoxifen than with raloxifene treatment.

CONCLUSIONS: Tamoxifen, but not raloxifene, reduces IGF-I levels. Both SERMs stimulate the gonadal axis, with tamoxifen imparting a greater effect. We conclude that in therapeutic doses, raloxifene perturbs the GH and gonadal axes to a lesser degree than tamoxifen.

This study shows that both Raloxifene (RLX) and Tamoxifene (TMX) make a marked improvement to FSH, LH, and Test, however TMX does so to a greater degree. However, this study also points out that RLX does NOT have the IGF-1 reducing effect that TMX exhibits. This could make a difference when you're doing everything you can to ensure you lose no gains during and after PCT.



Study Three

Raloxifene and body composition and muscle strength in postmenopausal women: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial.

Authors
Jacobsen DE, Samson MM, Emmelot-Vonk MH, Verhaar HJ.
Journal
Eur J Endocrinol. 2010 Feb;162(2):371-6. Epub 2009 Nov 2.

Affiliation
Department of Geriatric Medicine, University Medical Centre Utrecht, Room B05.256, PO Box 85500, 3508 GA Utrecht, The Netherlands.

Abstract
OBJECTIVE: To compare the effects of raloxifene and placebo on body composition and muscle strength.

DESIGN: Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial involving 198 healthy women aged 70 years or older conducted between July 2003 and January 2008 at the University Medical Centre, Utrecht, The Netherlands.

METHODS: Participants were randomly assigned to receive raloxifene 60 mg or placebo daily for 12 months. Measurements were taken at baseline, 3, 6, and 12 months, and change from baseline was calculated. Main outcome measures were body composition (bioelectrical impedance analysis), muscle strength, and muscle power (maximum voluntary isometric knee extension strength, explosive leg extensor power, and handgrip strength).

RESULTS: At 12 months, the body composition of women taking raloxifene was significantly different from that of women taking placebo: fat-free mass (FFM) had increased by a mean of 0.83 (2.4) kg in the raloxifene group versus 0.03 (1.5) kg in the placebo group (P=0.05), and total body water had increased by a mean of 0.6 (1.8) litres in the raloxifene group versus a decrease of 0.06 (1.1) litres in the placebo group (P=0.02). Muscle strength and power were not significantly different.

CONCLUSION: Raloxifene significantly changed body composition (increased FFM; increased water content) compared with placebo in postmenopausal women.

I found this study interesting because it isn't interested in any hormonal effects, just the effects of chronic RLX usage on body composition. Obviously we won't be using RLX for 12 months (I hope), but it's certainly more encouraging than seeing a trend in the opposite direction.

Full abstracts to follow.

 

[essays]

This is difficult to copy paste, but the original PDF abstract can be viewed here: http://www.eje-online.org/content/150/4/539.full.pdf
This study is titled: Effects of raloxifene on gonadotrophins, sex hormones, bone
turnover and lipids in healthy elderly men

Here's the abstract, but be sure to click the link and read details.

Abstract

Objective: To explore effects on serum lipids, pituitary ***8211;gonadal axis, prostate and bone turnover of the administration of the mixed oestrogen agonist/antagonist raloxifene in healthy elderly men.

Participants: Thirty healthy men aged 60***8211;70 years randomly received raloxifene 120 mg/day
(n ¼ 15) or placebo (n ¼ 15) for 3 months.

Measurements: In this double-blind, placebo-controlled study, serum gonadotrophins, sex hormones, prostate speci***64257;c antigen (PSA), a marker of bone turnover, urinary hydroxyproline (OHPro) and cholesterol were measured at baseline and after 3 months.

Results: Raloxifene signi***64257;cantly increased serum concentrations of LH and FSH (by 29% and 21%),
total testosterone (20%), free testosterone (16%) and bioavailable testosterone (not bound to sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG; 20%). In parallel with testosterone, 17b-oestradiol also increased by 21%. SHBG increased by 7%. Total cholesterol (TChol) decreased signi***64257;cantly, from 5.7 to 5.5 mmol/l
(P ¼ 0.03). Low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-c) and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-c) showed a trend to decrease. Overall, there was no change in urinary OHPro/creatinine ratio as a marker for bone resorption. However, the raloxifene-induced increases in both serum testosterone and 17b-oestradiol were signi***64257;cantly related to a lower OHPro/creatinine ratio. Total PSA increased by 17% without signi***64257;cant changes in free PSA or free/total PSA ratio. Participants
reported no side effects and raloxifene was well tolerated.

Conclusion: In healthy elderly man, raloxifene 120 mg/day for 3 months increased LH, FSH and sex steroid hormones. Potentially bene***64257;cial effects were the small but signi***64257;cant decrease in TChol and the trend towards a decrease in LDL-c. Negative effects were the trend towards a decrease in HDL-c and the signi***64257;cant increase in serum PSA. A decrease in markers of bone resorption during raloxifene treatment was found only in men with relatively high increases in serum testosterone and 17b-oestradiol. Overall, there were no clear bene***64257;cial effects of administration of raloxifene to ageing men in this preliminary investigation.

You can see the copy pasting isn't really working, so please do click the link

 

[essays]

Neuroendocrine Regulation of Growth Hormone and Androgen Axes by Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators in Healthy Men

This is the full text from Study Two shown in the first post: http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/95/12/5443.full.pdf

This study is in healthy men, which is why I think it's so important.

I omitted all rat studies. We might like to experiment on our rats, but I thought you all might like to know this for your own good.

Currently, the only company I know making this stuff is our board sponsor, the friendly Lion. I have a lot of trust in their stuff, but with that said I hope that more board sponsored research companies will bring this stuff into stock.

I am currently using Lion's Raloxifene ~100mg ED with Clomid 50mg ED on my rats. I will probably lower the Ralox dose to 60mg after 1 week, as I think 60mg is probably an effective dose.

 

[essays]

Bump....

 

[essays]

I would have thought this might be relevant to more guys interests.

 

[UserAt204]

It looks good an I know maybe two guys who like this. I don't see many issues with it but toremifene does much of the same and has a greater effect on lh, fsh. Nolva will also increase HDL but some say puts you at risk for blood clotting.

This product is around but not many sell it because it's not very popular. I have considered it along with torem but never ended up using it.

Thanks for the info.

 

[essays]

Another VERY interesting study. Who doesn't want to run a product that will improve cognitive performance along with its intended effect?

Raloxifene improves verbal memory in late postmenopausal women: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial.
Jacobsen DE, Samson MM, Emmelot-Vonk MH, Verhaar HJ.
Source
Department of Geriatric Medicine, University Medical Centre Utrecht, GA Utrecht, The Netherlands.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
The aim of this study was to examine the effects of raloxifene compared with those of placebo on verbal memory, mental processing speed, depression, anxiety, and quality of life.
METHODS:
A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of 213 healthy women 70 years or older was conducted between July 2003 and January 2008 at the University Medical Centre Utrecht, the Netherlands. Participants were randomly assigned to receive raloxifene (60 mg) or placebo daily for 12 months. Measurements were taken at baseline and after 3, 6, and 12 months. The change in scores from baseline was calculated. The main outcome measures were direct and delayed verbal memory (Groningen 15 Words test), mental processing speed (Trails B test), mood/depression (Geriatric Depression Scale), anxiety (State-Trait Anxiety Inventory 1 and 2), and quality of life (Women's Health Questionnaire and EuroQol-5 dimensional questionnaire).
RESULTS:
Direct verbal memory improved significantly with raloxifene compared with placebo: the women receiving raloxifene repeated more words in the words A + B test than did the women receiving placebo (P = 0.025). At 12 months, the change from baseline was 16 words in the raloxifene group and 10 words in the placebo group. In the words A test, direct repetition was also significantly better among women receiving raloxifene than among women receiving placebo (P = 0.023), with the change from baseline in the number of words repeated being nine words in the raloxifene group and six words in the placebo group at 12 months.
CONCLUSIONS:
In postmenopausal women, raloxifene gave significantly improved verbal memory when compared with placebo.

 

[DADAWG]

i will hold out on judgement until i see something comparing it to clomid because IMO clomid is much better at restoring hpta than nolva.

 

[essays]

i will hold out on judgement until i see something comparing it to clomid because IMO clomid is much better at restoring hpta than nolva.

I would rather run raloxifene and clomid than clomid and tamox. Unfortunately I just happened to have tamox on hand with my ralox last cycle, so that's what I did. It worked very well. 10 week cycle, nuts were in fine form by week 2.

 

["200lbs is 200lbs" H.L.R.]

good info essay. Very interesting. Something def worth trying out. Id rep ya but something is wrong with my rep system and I cant see anyone elses little scale at the bottom of their posts

 

[juandohh]

Its amazing that post cycle therapy (pct) is still Voodoo and not a science yet.

I was under the impressing that nolvadex was superior to clomid?

Im very intrested in this kinda of stuff (building better humans). I personally don't use or intend to use, but I like seeing the progress and what works scientifically (not bro science).

Just a question guys. If nolvadex is an estrogen AND increases estrogen yet BLOCKs the receptors in the chest would it not be wise to use it with aromasin to reduce estrogen enough while off cycle till you taper off both ?

Like I said post cycle therapy (pct) is just some occult thing to me right now. Looking for various viable options to be able to tell others about.

Including the Formastan which is an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) made half a centry ago. Ive been reading alot on forums; that this is either "super great" or just a waste.
IT just doenst make sense to me to use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) as a post cycle therapy (pct) only. Sorry if this is irrelevant to the post.

I am intrested in knowing where raloxifene stands amoungs all these SERMS and AI's.

 

[essays]

Raloxifene is among the newest. It might not be the strongest in terms of re-setting HPTA, however, it has substantial beneficial characteristics that clomid and tamoxifen do not possess.

 

[Logical]

I don't have the study on me, but i saw one posted that showed raloxifene was also effective in reducing the size of pubertal gyno in adults. Supposedly it was much more effective than tamox, and there were results in something like 80% of users running it for 6 months at 60mg EoD

again, thats just from what i can remember so don't quote me on it, but if anyone can find the study i'm talking about, raloxifene might be of interest for more reasons than just PCT

Edit:

Some improvement was seen in 86% of patients receiving tamoxifen and in 91% receiving raloxifene, but a greater proportion had a significant decrease (>50%) with raloxifene (86%) than tamoxifen (41%). No side effects were seen in any patients.

 

[juandohh]

After a cycle that used HCG/aromasin while "on" to help with sides effects. People use a SERM to block receptors at the nipis right?

I've read clomid helps with HPTA but since HCG should be used in a proper cycle wouldn't just using RALOXIFENE be enough for PCT?
**edit** (i was wrong HPTA will be shut down regardless but HCG is supposed to keep the ball sack intact ) **edit**

I say this because I'm inexperience but I have read a lot for the past few months actually. And I think GYNO/HPTA is every ones main concern post cycle. Thats why "on" cycle HCG and Aromasin is advised. And post cycle a serm to block the nip receptors. Correct?

So using Raloxifene for pct would be enough right? Since its the best at blocking receptors at the nips?





*edit* Really its quite freaky that people have used Tore / Tomax / clomid for gyno but I've read that it changes the dna structure permanently . Not sure if this is correct but they are carcinogenics !? *edit*

 

[Shorty159]

I have very mild gyno and have had it a year wud ramoflaxine reduce mine?

 

[juandohh]

essays you had a 10 week pct?

 

[essays]

essays you had a 10 week pct?

No, I was on 10 weeks of test C. My nuts came back on week 2 of ralox, I used the raloxifene for just under 4 weeks (when my supply ran out) and continued my tamox for a week afterwards.

Everything turned out very well, and I would recommend anyone try it.

 

[juandohh]

Did you use HCG while on cycle ?

Essays for stimulating the HPTA which is better clomid or tore ?

Thanks for the response bro.

 

[essays]

Did you use HCG while on cycle ?

Essays for stimulating the HPTA which is better clomid or tore ?

Thanks for the response bro.

I have never used toremifene, so I can't comment. I haven't done as much research as I probably should have on it by now either. It seems to be a mixed bag with results. Some guys are very happy, whereas other guys are not. What that makes me think is that it's ineffective. Reason being: You will naturally return to homeostasis. I suspect the guys who rate it positively have returned to homeostasis naturally, the guys who rate it negatively are just taking longer for a natural restart.

No, I didn't use HCG on cycle or pre-pct. It was just a 10 weeker of straight test. No need (in my opinion).

 

[simpllyhuge]

Does it have emotional sides like clomid? this is a good thread. I would also like to hear about combing these with am Aromatase inhibitor (AI) in pct, do you guys still do that.