Rsearch chemical sales

[JACKDAROIDER]

I don't want to cause any anxiety, but sometimes it's necessary. I thought it may be a good idea to post this. I was speaking to a very close friend of the family who practices law. I explained to him about the research loop-hole that bodybuilders are using to obtain certain non-controlled, normally prescribed drugs. I pulled up a couple sites and he was amazed! He did some checking, but what he found made me cringe a bit. First off, he said that all though technically if a product is sold for research it can be used for research purposes. However, he also stated that there are certain laws in place that fall under the fraud catagory. He told them to me, but I was'nt writing the laws on a piece of paper. Apparently, he and other lawyers feel that these type of operations fall under fraud. The individuals who sell the research chemicals are not certified research assistants or doctors, have no liscenses or permits to practice their so called "research." , and finally they are running sites for bodybuilders, providing bodybuilder prescription drugs.
He claimed that most people in the United States are under the impression that they are OJ Simpson. Unfortunately, it does'nt work that way. He bet me that most of these site owners are young, and they think they are untouchable. So he told me this.... what do you think Phizer is going to say if they see you are selling Viagra?, or Upjohn when they see Cialis? If they do decide to crack down on these sites, the charge is going to be selling prescription drugs without a prescription, and fraud using web sites to claim that they are research labs selling products for animal research. It would'nt be too difficult to prove that these owners are selling to bodybuilders, advertising to bodybuilding web sites, all the customers are obviously your regular "gym" rat, and just because the law says something does'nt mean anything in cases such as this. Thats why fraud is there etc. Worse though is that you will have to explain to a judge that you were selling prescription drugs without a prescription. Thats the real problem, and thats the most difficult part. It's very risky, and his exact words were that big pharmacy is very corrupt and powerful in the US, and thats who these guys feel they can take on with the loop-hole laws. He laughed and said unless you got millions to fight it, these guys may be in for a reality check one day.
The above info is not from me but a well respected attourney. He wanted to stress that although the loop-hole is there, the angle that the bodybuilders are using is not a good one. There are a lot of laws in place to counteract the loop hole sales. There always are.
After reading Rick Collins article about research chemicals, I think people may want to re-think if they decide to sell these products. Big pharmacy? I would'nt want to be standing in front of them. Just some info I thought was worth mentioning. Please dont get upset. I posted this to give a little more insight on the bigger picture. I think what suppliers are doing is great, I'm not aginst it at all, but I think its necessary to realize what the reality of the whole situation is.

Later.... Be careful out there.

-I'm glad to see LR is doing good. I hate to hear stories like that......

 

[frotobaggins]

good point

 

[Bimmer]

intresting! DO you feel small research companys like LR or pump&pose show a threat to and of these big company like upjohn or phizer? I do not think it is worth their time to crack down on these "research" companys. But yes you are right that it is fraud.

 

[heregothere]

i agree jack.

i think these research chemical companies will eventually run into trouble not by making tamoxifen or clomiphene, but by cloning Big Pharma's cash cows like viagra and cialis. just look at their lobbying powers: they are already pressuring the FDA to recommend that US citizens not import drugs from Mexico or Canada because 'they may not be safe', they have persuaded the white house to beef up customs to 'fight terrorism' and they are doing everything in their power to fight generic drugs from india and brazil under the banner of 'protecting intellectual property.'

 

[Ganryu]

I would delete this post, I mean no need to give the exact reasons on the board.

 

[JACKDAROIDER]

I hope things continue to go well for all those companies, but nothing I've said here is anything that these local authorities have'nt already discussed I'm sure. I really don't know what the future of it is, but deleting the post does'nt get the truth out. I don't want to see anyone get into trouble thats why I posted it. Sorry, did'nt mean to offend anyone. I thought I was helping. It's all about learning here. Is'nt it safer just to use the importation laws and buy it legally from Canada? I just hope people don't take the intent of this post the wrong way.

Later.

 

[Tweekt-out]

BOO!!!

 

[SomeBloke]

itll all come down to the dollar

fact is roids research chem sales dont bite into their market at all, since you cant buy them legit anyway. i mean, even if they were making millions on test enth or whatever they wouldnt bother closing the loophole since normal guys cant get that legit, and more importantly, cant pass on the cost to their insurance company (who is usually footing the bill). there just wont be diversion.

if it came to viagra/cialis though, there could be some drama, even though a lot of that stuff does come in from india and the like

interesting times

if i was really into my roids, though, id stock up, since this looks precipitous imo

 

[Mudge]

Well what do you think is going on with the IGF thing? Of course companies will sue.

 

[jobe1111]

I don't want to cause any anxiety, but sometimes it's necessary. I thought it may be a good idea to post this. I was speaking to a very close friend of the family who practices law. I explained to him about the research loop-hole that bodybuilders are using to obtain certain non-controlled, normally prescribed drugs. I pulled up a couple sites and he was amazed! He did some checking, but what he found made me cringe a bit. First off, he said that all though technically if a product is sold for research it can be used for research purposes. However, he also stated that there are certain laws in place that fall under the fraud catagory. He told them to me, but I was'nt writing the laws on a piece of paper. Apparently, he and other lawyers feel that these type of operations fall under fraud. The individuals who sell the research chemicals are not certified research assistants or doctors, have no liscenses or permits to practice their so called "research." , and finally they are running sites for bodybuilders, providing bodybuilder prescription drugs.
He claimed that most people in the United States are under the impression that they are OJ Simpson. Unfortunately, it does'nt work that way. He bet me that most of these site owners are young, and they think they are untouchable. So he told me this.... what do you think Phizer is going to say if they see you are selling Viagra?, or Upjohn when they see Cialis? If they do decide to crack down on these sites, the charge is going to be selling prescription drugs without a prescription, and fraud using web sites to claim that they are research labs selling products for animal research. It would'nt be too difficult to prove that these owners are selling to bodybuilders, advertising to bodybuilding web sites, all the customers are obviously your regular "gym" rat, and just because the law says something does'nt mean anything in cases such as this. Thats why fraud is there etc. Worse though is that you will have to explain to a judge that you were selling prescription drugs without a prescription. Thats the real problem, and thats the most difficult part. It's very risky, and his exact words were that big pharmacy is very corrupt and powerful in the US, and thats who these guys feel they can take on with the loop-hole laws. He laughed and said unless you got millions to fight it, these guys may be in for a reality check one day.
The above info is not from me but a well respected attourney. He wanted to stress that although the loop-hole is there, the angle that the bodybuilders are using is not a good one. There are a lot of laws in place to counteract the loop hole sales. There always are.
After reading Rick Collins article about research chemicals, I think people may want to re-think if they decide to sell these products. Big pharmacy? I would'nt want to be standing in front of them. Just some info I thought was worth mentioning. Please dont get upset. I posted this to give a little more insight on the bigger picture. I think what suppliers are doing is great, I'm not aginst it at all, but I think its necessary to realize what the reality of the whole situation is.

Later.... Be careful out there.

-I'm glad to see LR is doing good. I hate to hear stories like that......

BIG PHARMACY IS THE HOLE PROB.

 

[JACKDAROIDER]

Yup, I noticed this post and the repost is circulating, but I'll say it again. The real question is not why they are able to sell the chemicals, but why are they so cheap. If big pharmacy was'nt corrupt and price hiking drugs, the loop-hole would'nt exist. In reality, it's the corruption of big pharmacy causing the problem in the first place. However reality is going to be reality, and they are going to focus on the above topic. Sad... its a shame that the elected officials could care less that every person in America hates the war on drugs, I mean the bussiness on drugs, and wants it stopped. Its funny how they dont even mention Americans opinions about that, but they'll run a huge story on the guy on the corner selling chump amounts.
Later

 

[Alcibiades]

Big pharmacy is not corrupt. It costs billions in research and clinical trials to just get one drug from discovery to retail, not to mention several years. Who do you expect to pick up this tab? They spend a ton of money to create these medications, they need to not only be able to fund research but also turn a profit, and letting every 3rd world country make their patented medications will just end up bankrupting the pharm industry. Then there will be no new meds. Pfizer is in a world of sh*t right now, they already let 200 people go with early retirements, and today they announced they will lay off more.

 

[muroman]

good point alcibiades everybody likes to point fingers and blame The big pharms for the high costs of drugs but i don't think there is much attention to the costs involved with creating these new drugs.

I also wouldnt be surprised to see these big pharms take action against these american based research companies. These guys are blatantly selling new drugs like Cialis that are huge money makers without any regard for the copyrights.

 

[JACKDAROIDER]

Well, think what you may, and believe that hype if you like. It's a lie. Sorry to burst your bubble. Show me this proof. If it is true, than why is'nt there proof starting from one point to another. Show us the proof! Don't talk it, show it. Why is our medicine so high, and don't give me a politicians answer. If your correct you can show the proof on paper. The price hiking is suspicious enough for us to ask, but we never get an answer. I want to see more detail about the research, where the costs go, to whom, If I were a mechanic and I estimated a wreck 1000%, sometimes more, as the cost, I would be investigated and charged. As usual in big pharmacies case, it's bussiness and thats ok. All the American people need to know is why does Viagra and life saving meds cost so much here. Show us in detail from the time it's manufactured and so on...they never do. If they have nothing to hide, than they would show us. They never will, and they will throw out bull shit like you guys are ranting as an excuse. It's a very simple answer, there is something fishy, show us in detail why? Don't tell us....show us, so we can understand....why is that so hard to understand. Please take this as a friendly disagreement guys. You have the right to your opinions as much as I have the right to mine, but when I see things like ephedra being banned because it is so dangerous, but big tobacco can kill billions more people and have the argument that your an adult and have the right to do what you want. I see the only difference being the money provided by tobacco companies to whom?? Provided the warnings are on the boxes, or bottles, you can drink and smoke yourself into oblivion, and thats ok....so they ID in those cases, but the same can't be done with supplements such as ephedra?? Why? Is'nt that proof enough? Oh yeah, governments not getting money on supplements though... Your asking me why I point fingers? Educate yourselves my fellow Americans. That's why there are people like me. To ask question you guys obviously don't bother to see. So why the ephedra ban? It's been out since 1937? 100 adverse reactions that they won't share to us on a case by case basis. If I ate a whole bottle of asprin I'd be dead too. Since 1937 - 104 adverse reactions reported? Compare that to alcohol and tobacco. How can you be so ignorant to actually believe that the meds sales in this country are not corrupt. Your the first I've ever herd believe that.
Sorry guys, I like you anyway, and I hope as an American you understand I have the right to my opinion too. I just need to see details and the government never lets us see it.

 

[moldytwig]

thats a great post if you want to scare all the research companies into selling post cards of titties instead of cialis....cant wait to see what that would do for your PCT.

 

[JACKDAROIDER]

Please next time don't give an answer you got from watching Larry King Live....
As far as Phizer laying off people. Salesman and Women. You know the ones that offer those free, paid, week vacations in Hawaii, I mean, "Pharmacy Seminars for the docs and their families." Nah, that does'nt persuade them to prescribe it. Bad bussiness leads to failure. Thats whats happening.... MONEY ABOVE LIFE... WAR ON DRUGS?? No, BUSSINESS OF DRUGS.... MONEY ABOVE LIFE!! Its terrible. Yet billions and billions appear out of no where to go to war and fund campeigns.... SHAME ON OUR COUNTRY. I still love it though. It's just not perfect. YET.

 

[JACKDAROIDER]

Yeah, Yeah, Moldy, I know.... I just hope no one else gets into trouble. It's good advise for the owners of the research companies tp know. What they do with it is up to them.

 

[Alcibiades]

Well Pfizer didn't lay off salespeople, I know people who work for Pfizer and that was 200 research scientists persuaded to end their careers earlier. I know a lot of researchers in the pharmaceutical industry, people who work for Johnson & Johnson, Merck, Roche, Bristol Myers Squibb, Colgate, Schering-Plough, Novartis, and several other companies. My friend over at J & J was worried about his job and he had to work on weekends to avoid getting laid off, and Merck suspended all hiring sometime back. BMS almost got taken over, they had no drugs in the pipeline not too long ago.

I'm telling you what the deal is from first hand experience and you are ranting and spewing some bs far left liberal conspiracy theory at me. As to how much it costs for research, each person can spend about $3k per day on chemicals and supplies. So figure thousands of people in the company are spending just a part of that a day, you are looking at huge expenditure of capital. That would be ok if every drug candidate made it to market, if every other compound made would become a drug, but most compounds don't make it through phase I trials. So by the time a drug makes it through phase III and gets FDA approval the company has spent hundreds of millions of dollars.

When you buy a drug alot of the price has to cover the years of research done to bring you a safe and effective product. People like you don't understand this and would inadvertently put the entire pharmaceutical indrusty out of business. In a way I'd love to see you people do this, so when all the diseases are resistant to drugs and no new drugs come on the market, I could listen to you whine and cry that you're sick and dying crying for medication.

I think you have a problem with idiots in Washington who try to tell us what to do, it's not the pharm. industry that bans medication it's the FDA and the politicians that try to treat us like children. I agree with you on that point: if I want to smoke, drink, use steriods or smoke weed no one should be able to tell me what I can do.

 

[ssmla123]

OK...the pharm industry spends alot getting drugs apporved so they have to charge alot for them. That is true. The problem I have is when supplements like ephedrine get taken off the market because they are better than the prescriptions out there. The pharm ind didn't discover ephedrine, it has been around for a long time. And how about "Enzyte" that is a bunch of extracts from herbal supps put together, they didn't research that either, they stole it. The price for ground breaking meds is exceptable, its when they stick it to the common man for stuff that has been used for years that I get angry.

But back to main topic...I am of the opinion that we should not post research sights anymore. Its one thing if they advertise, its another if someone on the site says "Hey dudes go to *** and get the %%% its good for $$$" that kinda ruins the whole loophole thing.

 

[JACKDAROIDER]

ssmia, could'nt have said it better myself. Sorry if I offended you alscibwhatever, but I still think that you are getting screwed by companies playing a lot of bull shit. I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.... show me the money. There must be receipts for this spending so where is it?? It should be on paper somewhere. Details. All I want is details, not someone who has played in the trust of getting your degrees and putting your life in the hands of a medical system that does not work. I have very, very close relatives that are in your position or friends, and one is in research, and he was just laid off. I just think you still don't understand. Don't just blurt out billions and various numbers. We want books of details on every cent spent!If I were laid off I would demand this, but people are too scared to do anything, or they just give up. You can find out. If I were them I would get together and hire a law firm. I bet those people fired could investigate enough to file a class action suit...whos checking?? Just for developing Cialis for instance. Thats a good example. Show me every bit of money spent on Cialis....ITS NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO GATHER THAT DATA, SO DONT THROW THAT IN MY FACE LARRY KING LIVE ANSWER PERSON. Just realize the facts, YOU AND THE REST OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY ARE BEING PLAYED, but don't worry big pharmacy has already manipulated everything. Money talks, they have it. They just don't care. It's typical business thinking. Show me the proof. - Hey don't hate me here either. I really don't hate you or have anything against you or your opinion. I kind of like debating it, but I'm not buying it. I like the spunk you put into your posts though my bro. Take care and reply without making accusations. I'm more educated than you think amigo. Get me the paperwork and we'll debate some more. Otherwise the disagreement can't be debated. Those poor people got screwed out of their jobs because of corrupted politics thats it. Money is the dictator.... I still believe big pharmacy is the problem... just need paperwork. Get a lawyer. The people "persuaded" must want to know why? I have a college degree, but I don't understand why the employees are like "ok." I believe what you say. Without seeing proof!