Saw my old family doc today........

[Alpin]

ok thanks good advice guys...

 

[Alpin]

By the way, here is a quote from the study that came out yesterday in the NEJM. You might want to take this into consideration.

When aromatization was intact, fat accumulation began with mild gonadal steroid deficiency (a testosterone level of approximately 300 to 350 ng per deciliter), whereas lean mass, thighmuscle area, and muscle strength were preserved until gonadal steroid deficiency was more marked (a testosterone level <200 ng per deciliter).

And if you are now thinking you can just keep taking your Arimidex, according to the study, I believe they say it makes it worse. That you in fact accumulate even more fat. So are you sure you really want to stay at 291 on an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to boot and keep packing on fat.

Hum...that's odd. I dropped 10 pounds since July and I am on Adex. If I stop this AI...I will gain more weight as E2 will go up...
I only see my TT dropping even more.

Will have to start 500 i.u. 2 times a week(Monday, Thursday) HCG....
there's no choice here really.

 

[Alpin]

QUESTION:

In Jan 2013 I was at 383 ng/dl of T.T. and at 10:45 A.M. with the same LH, FSH levels.... but 2 months earlier I was at 288 ng/dl. I discontinued testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) in June 2012....
But on March, July, August bloodwork I have been between 265-291 ng/dl all tests before 9 AM
Could it be that I gained more weight from Jan and on which caused T to become lower?
I can't figure out my true baseline levels....
Went for bloodwork today will post results.

 

[DreDay187]

Hum...that's odd. I dropped 10 pounds since July and I am on Adex. If I stop this AI...I will gain more weight as E2 will go up...
I only see my TT dropping even more.

Will have to start 500 i.u. 2 times a week(Monday, Thursday) HCG....
there's no choice here really.

Elevated E2 doesn't necessarily mean more weight. It's up to your diet which is exacerbated by the E2.

 

[clman8585]

What's your bf%?

Why havent you ordered hcg and clomid yet?

 

[halfwit]

QUESTION:

In Jan 2013 I was at 383 ng/dl of T.T. and at 10:45 A.M. with the same LH, FSH levels.... but 2 months earlier I was at 288 ng/dl. I discontinued testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) in June 2012....
But on March, July, August bloodwork I have been between 265-291 ng/dl all tests before 9 AM
Could it be that I gained more weight from Jan and on which caused T to become lower?
I can't figure out my true baseline levels....
Went for bloodwork today will post results.

I've yet to see if the curve for body fat in relation to lowering endogenous testosterone levels is a linear curve or not, but I'd imagine that you would have to put on a substantial amount of weight to see that effect. As Clman stated; why haven't you ordered your clomid and HCG yet?

Less analysis, more action man. You're not going to feel better by continuing to ponder about your TT values. Start the SERM/HCG and see how it goes. If it does nothing, you know what to do. Stop the insanity brother.

 

[Megatron28]

QUESTION:

In Jan 2013 I was at 383 ng/dl of T.T. and at 10:45 A.M. with the same LH, FSH levels.... but 2 months earlier I was at 288 ng/dl. I discontinued testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) in June 2012....
But on March, July, August bloodwork I have been between 265-291 ng/dl all tests before 9 AM
Could it be that I gained more weight from Jan and on which caused T to become lower?
I can't figure out my true baseline levels....
Went for bloodwork today will post results.

That's all academic. You can think about it all you want. But the answer doesn't change your treatment choices. Attempt restart or begin testosterone replacement therapy (TRT).

Let me try an analogy. Billy has a broken leg. Is it because he didn't drink enough milk? Is it because his E2 was too low? Was his TT too low? Did he just slide into 3rd base awkwardly and would have broken his leg no matter what?

How do we treat his broken leg? Do the reasons matter a whole lot right now? Could there be an underlying problem that should be addressed? Sure. But does that change the fact that Billy needs his broken bone set and put in a cast right now? Or should he think about the causes for a few months or years before being treated? Make sure he has contemplated every possible reason. Because what if he could increase his calcium intake to make his bones stronger? What if?

Billy still needs to fix his broken leg right now otherwise he will be dealing with even more serious issues. Billy can't afford paralysis by analysis.

 

[DreDay187]

That's all academic. You can think about it all you want. But the answer doesn't change your treatment choices. Attempt restart or begin testosterone replacement therapy (TRT).

Let me try an analogy. Billy has a broken leg. Is it because he didn't drink enough milk? Is it because his E2 was too low? Was his TT too low? Did he just slide into 3rd base awkwardly and would have broken his leg no matter what?

How do we treat his broken leg? Do the reasons matter a whole lot right now? Could there be an underlying problem that should be addressed? Sure. But does that change the fact that Billy needs his broken bone set and put in a cast right now? Or should he think about the causes for a few months or years before being treated? Make sure he has contemplated every possible reason. Because what if he could increase his calcium intake to make his bones stronger? What if?

Billy still needs to fix his broken leg right now otherwise he will be dealing with even more serious issues. Billy can't afford paralysis by analysis.

Billy also needs to let Sally see how much his Cialis research is helping

 

[halfwit]

That's all academic. You can think about it all you want. But the answer doesn't change your treatment choices. Attempt restart or begin testosterone replacement therapy (TRT).

Let me try an analogy. Billy has a broken leg. Is it because he didn't drink enough milk? Is it because his E2 was too low? Was his TT too low? Did he just slide into 3rd base awkwardly and would have broken his leg no matter what?

How do we treat his broken leg? Do the reasons matter a whole lot right now? Could there be an underlying problem that should be addressed? Sure. But does that change the fact that Billy needs his broken bone set and put in a cast right now? Or should he think about the causes for a few months or years before being treated? Make sure he has contemplated every possible reason. Because what if he could increase his calcium intake to make his bones stronger? What if?

Billy still needs to fix his broken leg right now otherwise he will be dealing with even more serious issues. Billy can't afford paralysis by analysis.

I love you Megatron. No homo.




Okay, a little homo.

Billy also needs to let Sally see how much his Cialis research is helping

BAM! Now we're talking!

 

[Alpin]

I've yet to see if the curve for body fat in relation to lowering endogenous testosterone levels is a linear curve or not, but I'd imagine that you would have to put on a substantial amount of weight to see that effect. As Clman stated; why haven't you ordered your clomid and HCG yet?

Less analysis, more action man. You're not going to feel better by continuing to ponder about your TT values. Start the SERM/HCG and see how it goes. If it does nothing, you know what to do. Stop the insanity brother.

I hear you...
I was 295 lbs in July this year...now I'm 284 lbs.
When I had my 582-663 ng/dl of T.T. before going on TRT....
I was 250 lbs.
and it was 582 ng/dl T.T. 4 years ago and I weighed 263 lbs, before doing the 2.5 year stint of TRT.
I'm not trying to fight you guys or be difficult....
I'm trying to find out if I can dig down deep and recover to 500 ng/dl at least.

I have H.C.G.
this doc could give me clomid if I go to him a few more times and complain e.t.c.
He's more reasonable. He wrote it for me 9 years ago when I was recovering from AAS.
He's looking out for me and not timid...
I asked him yesterday he said Clomid is more for recovery if you just came off cycle....
He works out he knows!!!
That's why I never burned my bridge with him.
The other doc I've been writing about on the boards is really strict.

 

[Alpin]

What's your bf%?

Why havent you ordered hcg and clomid yet?

who can do this accurately for me?
My BMI is 39...but that is a flawed system of measurement isn't it?
it does not account for muscle too.

 

[2rude4u]

who can do this accurately for me?
My BMI is 39...but that is a flawed system of measurement isn't it?
it does not account for muscle too.

BMI is not accurate for many people although in your case it may be. The calculation is based upon your height and weight.

For example... Take two guys both 6 ft tall and 225 lbs. One is 30% bf and the other is only 10% bf. They will both have the same BMI and both be considered obese, although obviously at 10% bf you are anything but.

 

[DreDay187]

who can do this accurately for me?
My BMI is 39...but that is a flawed system of measurement isn't it?
it does not account for muscle too.

Do you think knowing your BF percentage will help matters in any way?

 

[Megatron28]

Apollon! What should Billy do? What do you advise? Set the bone? Study a bit more? Consult another doctor that might set it in a few more visits? Billy needs your help!

 

[Alpin]

Do you think knowing your BF percentage will help matters in any way?

For sure. Does a weight lose centre do it?
This is ridiculous man....
the nurse at my docs office yesterday weighed me and said you are 285 ilbs....you don't even look it she said.
I obviously have muscle on me....
The doc referred me to a weight loss /diet centre which is at a hospital...
I would think they would take a b.f. percentage test when going in.

 

[Alpin]

Apollon! What should Billy do? What do you advise? Set the bone? Study a bit more? Consult another doctor that might set it in a few more visits? Billy needs your help!

My advice would be Billy shouldn't give up or quit. Mollon Labe!!!

 

[DreDay187]

For sure. Does a weight lose centre do it?
This is ridiculous man....
the nurse at my docs office yesterday weighed me and said you are 285 ilbs....you don't even look it she said.
I obviously have muscle on me....
The doc referred me to a weight loss /diet centre which is at a hospital...
I would think they would take a b.f. percentage test when going in.

Are you going to listen to them or just pay lip service bro? You've been given great advice in numerous threads and have yet to act. What's different now?

 

[Alpin]

That's all academic. You can think about it all you want. But the answer doesn't change your treatment choices. Attempt restart or begin testosterone replacement therapy (TRT).

Let me try an analogy. Billy has a broken leg. Is it because he didn't drink enough milk? Is it because his E2 was too low? Was his TT too low? Did he just slide into 3rd base awkwardly and would have broken his leg no matter what?

How do we treat his broken leg? Do the reasons matter a whole lot right now? Could there be an underlying problem that should be addressed? Sure. But does that change the fact that Billy needs his broken bone set and put in a cast right now? Or should he think about the causes for a few months or years before being treated? Make sure he has contemplated every possible reason. Because what if he could increase his calcium intake to make his bones stronger? What if?

Billy still needs to fix his broken leg right now otherwise he will be dealing with even more serious issues. Billy can't afford paralysis by analysis.

This would be a good scenario to put to the family doc that has been dragging this out all these months by not putting me on clomid...
and he said it himself: "this is good, this will help you...but I won't write it"
I say: "Why"?
He says: "I'd rather the endo do it...whatever he says...what if it gives you breast cancer, wouldn't you want me to be careful"?
so basically if the endo prescribes it and it gives me breast cancer he is ok with it cause he didn't prescribe it and is not liable?
that's what it sounds like to me...
Why did the family doc intervene in a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) docs protocol that he prescribed to me and he said: "you don't need it, your body will make it's own"
The testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) doc I have is no different than the endo he would send me to...
In fact the endo might not know what the fuck he is doing and just write a script for 200 mg every 2 weeks....
W.T.F. is that suppose to mean?

 

[Alpin]

Are you going to listen to them or just pay lip service bro? You've been given great advice in numerous threads and have yet to act. What's different now?

I'm listening...
are you meaning the advice on a restart?
it's coming soon enough...
I will get to 265 ibs and if T has not budged...
will blast...

 

[DreDay187]

This would be a good scenario to put to the family doc that has been dragging this out all these months by not putting me on clomid...
and he said it himself: "this is good, this will help you...but I won't write it"
I say: "Why"?
He says: "I'd rather the endo do it...whatever he says...what if it gives you breast cancer, wouldn't you want me to be careful"?
so basically if the endo prescribes it and it gives me breast cancer he is ok with it cause he didn't prescribe it and is not liable?
that's what it sounds like to me...
Why did the family doc intervene in a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) docs protocol that he prescribed to me and he said: "you don't need it, your body will make it's own"
The testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) doc I have is no different than the endo he would send me to...
In fact the endo might not know what the fuck he is doing and just write a script for 200 mg every 2 weeks....
W.T.F. is that suppose to mean?

Who cares? How does it change your circumstances right this second in any way shape or form? You're trying to cast blame on someone, and whether they deserve it or not isn't going to help you right now. Why don't you understand this? You've been advised to do 50mg EOD basically and retest after. RUI ships clomid. Where is the problem? It's probably not that much more expensive through RUI and if these docs are as bad as you make them out to be, why aren't you listening to 2Rude, Austin, Half, and Megatron?