Second Cycle, Cutting. Need advice.

[wiggywild]

Hello all I'm putting together a cutting cycle but I need a lil help.

First cycle was only Test E at 600mg / week. Ran HCG and standard PCT of Nolvadex and Clomid for 4 weeks after waiting 2. I found out that a low dose of aromasin was not enough, so I will be running 25 from the beginning not when it kicks in and up if necessary. Did blood before during and after.... One of the first to post PSL accurate test results on here. Gained 24 pounds kept 14. Lifting for about 4 years.

Stats 190 pounds 6'. I posted a pic below at around 194 ~15%B.F. I've already cut from 202. I count calories most days on myfitnesspal. I use IIFYM diet. Currently at 2500 calories 160c 100f 250p 500 below TDEE. I actually usually eat a little more carbs and less fat.

I train weights 5 x / week, basketball like 2-3 days. Will up cardio and lower calories as needed. I have been using 3J's workout recently, I also really like a program using 10 rep max, 30 second break to 50 reps. When bulking I will sometimes switch to Wendler 5x3x1 or 5x5.

Proposed cycle base:
1-12 Test E 600 / week

What to throw in next is tricky. My first thought is:
1-6 T3 pyramid to 75mcg
1-6 clen/ ketotifen or EC or albuterol on clen I would ramp up to a comfortable amount 80-100mg / day
7-12 70 mg winstrol

plus standard pct, hcg and extra aromasin.

What I'd really like to do though is say screw it and run
1-10 100mg Test prop EOD
1-10 100mg Tren Ace EOD.
and add prami or caber.

I know the second is not going to be supported heavily here. Should I run winny throughout? I like the long cycle but I am considering using prop it just doesn't seem as cost effective. I don't want too much water retention and I want to see how winny compares to s4 in terms of muscle hardness.

Thanks for your help guys!!

 

[PrinceDianabol]

It's refreshing to see someone post up having done a bit of homework first

My thoughts:

-T3 doesn't need to be pyramided up. Start at 75mcg and stick to it. It's generally pretty well tolerated. You can expect it to take about 3 weeks to 'kick in.'

-If you've run clen before, I'd go that and keto. If not, you may decide to go with albut as it generally carries less sides for most people. Also, clen is dosed in micrograms.

-Your right about tren, it's not really recommended for second cycles. You seem like you know what your doing, and the importance of prior research though, so I don't see it being any more of an issue other than just simply not being 'necessary' yet. You could still make a lot of progress with just test + other basic compounds, and save tren for when you really plateau. But, we tend to be impatient after all... I think you know what's best for you, and ultimately it's your decision.

-I wouldn't run winny more than 6 weeks personally.

-Are you running any liver support? (NAC, TUDCA, etc.) Any other supplements for your health? If you end up running tren I'd highly recommend plenty of fish oil. In fact, on cycle or not, fish oil is fucking awesome. I have it every day.

Hope I've helped

 

[Norsegod]

I think you should stick with either t3 or the clen/keto, as it being your second cycle you don't need both and don't know how your body reacts to every compound. As far as the tren goes, just don't. Not yet. You use tren when other aas doesn't cut it anymore, just like you start aas when natural training and every variance of advanced routines and dieting didn't cut it anymore.

Winny can be quite painful on your joints and for me it gets worse when i'm running clen or albuterol.

As far as the test, i love prop. I even use it for trt. I just don't get the bloat that i get from longer ester test. A lot of people can't handle the frequent pinning though.

Now, what i suggest you do is run test prop @ 150/eod- anavar @ 50mgs/day- t3 @ 75mcg/day. Use all of them for 8 weeks, and if you so desire an additional two weeks without the var. Liver support, and ai's as needed.

Var actually is only one of two compounds that actually burns fat so that'll help, plus it is so perfect for calorie deficits.

I am glad to see you did your homework and i hope this helps. If you have any further inquiries, let us know.

 

[tbonexl]

2500 calories?

 

[3J]

looks like he has done his research.. the macros for the diet look right for his stats too..
i would personally have started you at 3k and worked you down to 2500 calories.. but 2500 calories is the right place to be based on your stats

 

[wiggywild]

Here are some updates, sorry I got busy.

View attachment 560610 This is me around 193?
View attachment 560611 This is me around 186
FYI I don't think I'm a badass just posting for progress and I would appreciate a BF estimate. I'm sure almost all of you are bigger than me!

I have lost 16 pounds in 8 weeks. I started out doing extra cardio but just settled into basketball 3 days a week as I enjoy it. Also I eat healthy like 3 days a week and IIFYM the rest. LOL today I went out for a friends birthday and ate 1500 calories of Buffalo Wild Wings and still made my calories and almost made my macros. This diet seems effortless. I know I have a lot of room to clean up when I need to but it is working and is very sustainable.

I'm really considering the test prop at the recommended dose, although I wouldn't run less than 10 weeks.
Also, the more I read about T3 the more I see that it can make your muscles flat. I want fullness and hardness from this cycle, those with experience with T3 do you think it took away from your muscle fulness?

I've almost decided against winny now.

I'm actually leaning towards turanibol. Can anyone give experience with Tbol for cutting? I just don't know that I can justify the anavar price although I'm still considering it.

I also read about a four week dbol kickstart then Tbol the rest. What do you think?

Lastly, and I know many people won't like this, but I would like to save my hairline if at all possible. I could run some dutasteride along with this cycle, how do anavar and Tbol compare on the hairline?

Thanks for your help again!!!

 

[Teutonic]

PD I agree it is so nice to see a little..a lot of prep and a good plan, properly typed out.

OP I ll not add to the advice u have been given; it s solid.

I will say no one will flame you for trying to be badass; this is so well done and the PICS are so important when asking for advice.

Very good !

Repped

 

[SoCalSwole]

I second teutinic's comment. Nice post. I think your on the right track. I totally agree that you should first get as lean as possible then make your gains while working to constantly stay under 14% BF. Gear works so much better and you can actually see the results when your lean. Do the test at 600 a week lean down as far as you can maintain that for a couple months and then go for a mass cycle. Don't mess with tren yet. So many other things to play with first. NPP is a great compound that with some Test P and EQ for the long haul like 16 weeks if you eat right will easily put 20 pounds on you and a good quality 20 not fat. Mess around with those compounds for a few cycles incorporate Dbol if your still not jacked enough then go for the tren but were talking like a couple years down the road.

Good luck