Self RX - in a bind - any input?

[gruntwerk]

Hey guys few quick things to run by everyone.... I discovered I am in hypogonadism, TT is 149.1 ng/dl and am having issues getting into the doc.

For the guys like halfwit who have followed my threads, the VA said they will do the referal process for the endo (will take a few months) but they most likely would not RX me test (through the VA that is) because I have an extensive history of illicit drug abuse within my VA medical records. I suffered from an opiate addiction when I got out of active duty and did rehab a few times there. My PCP there says he feels like someone like me (an addict) is not a good candidate for TRT as he fears I will end up abusing it... I get his point but that's not me anymore and I am suffering from hypogonadism it's not like I'm faking a back ache for percocet like my past days.

This leaves me on my civilian channel with Medicare insurance, my civie PCP put the referal through for the endo but the endo they sent it too is giving me shit about picking the case up because my PCP refused to order any extra labs (for FH, FSH, e2... etc) as they thought the endo would want to do it. But now the endo office is like ehhhh, well one test isn't enough there could be variables. Fact is I am in hypogonadism and I feel it.

This leads me to ask, how many of you guys self RX your TRT plan? I get it isn't optimal, but does anyone do it safely? Like repeated self labs, donating blood every 58 days, good self care.... etc? Ever since I got my labs back it's made me feel worse, knowing for sure I'm low T... it's psychologically pulling some of my motivation away. I feel like now I'm spinning my wheels, knowing I could be making so much more progress with optimal hormone levels. What's your guys take on self treatment plan? Honestly it would be cheaper then paying a private doc out side of my insurance.

It's just hard knowing all this hard work I put in day in day out is only giving me partial results of what I truly should see.

 

[halfape211]

There are advantages to self medication IF you gather the education to do it correctly. Incorrect TRT can really screw you up. The advantage to having a Dr. is that you are generally safer with Doctors guidance, (although depends upon Doctor). And with your history, you may get in more trouble if caught self medicating, then the average steroid user?

Is your endo going to get the tests that your PCP refused to get? If so, looks like he will move forward. And it is common that they want more than one test, however get prepared to be put through the wringer, because of your history. In the end I think you will get treatment, just because I do have some faith in society to do the right thing.

 

[Gossamer]

Sounds like you need to call IMT.

 

[halfwit]

I would wait to see what this new doc does. It's MUCH easier to doctor shop when you still have the original condition, than trying to explain why you're on black market stuff when you try to get a script in the future.

Extra blood tests take a week tops; having to start over from scratch? Six MONTHS at best. (baseline, consistent blood work showing problem, investigation of root cause, etc)

You're very close, I wouldn't risk things because you got impatient. I remember being diagnosed, and it felt like I had mercury in my veins, burning as I could feel the seconds ticking by before I could actually start fixing things.

The point is, it WILL come together soon enough.


Note: This is where (I hope you don't mind!) I would like to point out to folks that think it's okay to announce AAS use to a doctor. People don't realize that drug abuse records follow your ass FOREVER. You become judged (I'm a fellow opiate addict) for actions you made in a past life, and nothing can wash that away.

 

[daleb]

If you just want to say fuck it and get on injections then call a few pharmacies and ask the pharmicist, "im new to the area and I need to find a doctor to continue my testosterone replacement therapy, can you tell me who prescribes the most testosterone cypionate?". But this might not be the best course for people. Since testosterone injections are for life you should rule everything else out first. The pharmacist will tell you two or three names, make appointments with all of them. If the first one works out cancel the appointments with the rest. Get two hormone panel for females ran a week apart, get the draws at 8am. Bring them with you to the doc and give them to them. Tell him that you were feeling like crap so you got the tests on your own. Then you called the pharmacist and thats how you found them. Dont bring up your past with other stuff do not volunteer any information. The doctor visit will probably be covered under medicare they might try to get you on gels, but tell them that you are ok paying cash for the vials, and that you are worried about transferring the gels to ur pets/baby/wife/gf. the injections will most likely not be covered under insurance, so you will probably have to pay cash for ur vials, which is not too bad. When the doc writes the script tell them that since u are not using insurance that you want the 10ml 200mg/ml vial and that the script must specify the 10ml 200mg/ml vials. otherwise the 1ml vials will be cost prohibitive. You will also need to tell the pharmacist if the script isnt approved that you will pay cash for it otherwise they will get confused and mess things up. Dont get worried about the costs, its not expensive. Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[gruntwerk]

Sounds like you need to call IMT.

IMT doc in the NY area doesn't take insurance, I don't think I could afford the doctors visits and pharma grade gear and blood work on my own.

 

[gruntwerk]

There are advantages to self medication IF you gather the education to do it correctly. Incorrect TRT can really screw you up. The advantage to having a Dr. is that you are generally safer with Doctors guidance, (although depends upon Doctor). And with your history, you may get in more trouble if caught self medicating, then the average steroid user?

Is your endo going to get the tests that your PCP refused to get? If so, looks like he will move forward. And it is common that they want more than one test, however get prepared to be put through the wringer, because of your history. In the end I think you will get treatment, just because I do have some faith in society to do the right thing.

Thanks for the input, this was what I was thinking is it might not be so bad. As long as I ran a real protocol and not huge doses of test I don't see why it wouldn't be alright in a healthy person. I would monitor my health and labs and of course would admit to the doc what's going on if I ran into an issue. Most everything I have read in current research suggests that low doses of test for TRT don't usually cause a problem if the patient manages his e2 and donates blood, and watches the diet to avoid issues with cholesterol.
,
Not saying it's the right thing to do but right now it seems easier to do it myself. As for the endo, I am going to call there again today and see what they say, the biggest issue is with my civilian PCP and their office. Every time I call the endo they say all the notes have not been sent from my PCP yet, so I call PCP office and they claim to have sent it all yet again but endos office can't see it. Also with her refusing all the other labs she slowed down, I do assume the endo would order the labs for me but I can't seem to get the paper work to go through so I can even make the first visit. Very frustrating.

 

[gruntwerk]

I would wait to see what this new doc does. It's MUCH easier to doctor shop when you still have the original condition, than trying to explain why you're on black market stuff when you try to get a script in the future.

Extra blood tests take a week tops; having to start over from scratch? Six MONTHS at best. (baseline, consistent blood work showing problem, investigation of root cause, etc)

You're very close, I wouldn't risk things because you got impatient. I remember being diagnosed, and it felt like I had mercury in my veins, burning as I could feel the seconds ticking by before I could actually start fixing things.

The point is, it WILL come together soon enough.


Note: This is where (I hope you don't mind!) I would like to point out to folks that think it's okay to announce AAS use to a doctor. People don't realize that drug abuse records follow your ass FOREVER. You become judged (I'm a fellow opiate addict) for actions you made in a past life, and nothing can wash that away.

Deep down I know you're right and waiting is the best course of action, I was just more curious to know if self TRT can be done safely and efficiently. I just feel like the PCP office is screwing me over with this endo, one of the two is dropping the ball on something. Doctor shopping can be tough with my insurance because I confirmed I indeed do need a referral from PCP to have just about anything covered in Medicare.

Your side note is true - medical professionals/staff will hold any type of drug abuse over your head, like in my instance the VA saying they wouldn't want to put me on TRT because of opiate abuse. Two different things, actually need the test for hypogonadism so to me there is a huge difference.

 

[gruntwerk]

If you just want to say fuck it and get on injections then call a few pharmacies and ask the pharmicist, "im new to the area and I need to find a doctor to continue my testosterone replacement therapy, can you tell me who prescribes the most testosterone cypionate?". But this might not be the best course for people. Since testosterone injections are for life you should rule everything else out first. The pharmacist will tell you two or three names, make appointments with all of them. If the first one works out cancel the appointments with the rest. Get two hormone panel for females ran a week apart, get the draws at 8am. Bring them with you to the doc and give them to them. Tell him that you were feeling like crap so you got the tests on your own. Then you called the pharmacist and thats how you found them. Dont bring up your past with other stuff do not volunteer any information. The doctor visit will probably be covered under medicare they might try to get you on gels, but tell them that you are ok paying cash for the vials, and that you are worried about transferring the gels to ur pets/baby/wife/gf. the injections will most likely not be covered under insurance, so you will probably have to pay cash for ur vials, which is not too bad. When the doc writes the script tell them that since u are not using insurance that you want the 10ml 200mg/ml vial and that the script must specify the 10ml 200mg/ml vials. otherwise the 1ml vials will be cost prohibitive. You will also need to tell the pharmacist if the script isnt approved that you will pay cash for it otherwise they will get confused and mess things up. Dont get worried about the costs, its not expensive. Keep us posted on your progress.

I'm going to call and see if I can find any docs that don't need a referral, I'll get the labs done in PA prior if I have too I don't mind the drive.

 

[halfape211]

The PCP office could be delaying your paperwork transfer if they do not believe the you should be on TRT. It might take only one idiot with a little power to slow you down. Someone with a strong believe in the power of the Hippocratic Oath.

Maybe I missed something here, either go to PCP and deliver the copies (Which you might have the right to have??) to the endo. Or drive to PA and paid for the tests the endo wants, including another T test. Sometimes you have go around. Or pay out the money and go TRT clinics, etc. Whichever way, keep going.

 

[halfwit]

Deep down I know you're right and waiting is the best course of action, I was just more curious to know if self TRT can be done safely and efficiently. I just feel like the PCP office is screwing me over with this endo, one of the two is dropping the ball on something. Doctor shopping can be tough with my insurance because I confirmed I indeed do need a referral from PCP to have just about anything covered in Medicare.

Your side note is true - medical professionals/staff will hold any type of drug abuse over your head, like in my instance the VA saying they wouldn't want to put me on TRT because of opiate abuse. Two different things, actually need the test for hypogonadism so to me there is a huge difference.

Is it doable? Absolutely! I have to manage everything BUT the testosterone for my protocol, but as that's the only item that I can be in legal hot water over, it works for me.

In fact, I've had to learn enough about the endocrine system in order to treat myself properly, that I could probably minor in endocrinology if I were in medical school (my endo jokes about it quite often in fact ).

It just boils down to being able to never worry again (minus zombie apocalypses) about being able to keep stable hormones legally. I'm definitely no saint, and my research had led me to cycle knowledge, which has also become part of my life, but that freedom is just so nice in that if I get hurt, or have an abscess - I can use the fact I'm on a script to seek medical attention.

It's worth the wait, trust me.

 

[gruntwerk]

Is it doable? Absolutely! I have to manage everything BUT the testosterone for my protocol, but as that's the only item that I can be in legal hot water over, it works for me.

In fact, I've had to learn enough about the endocrine system in order to treat myself properly, that I could probably minor in endocrinology if I were in medical school (my endo jokes about it quite often in fact ).

It just boils down to being able to never worry again (minus zombie apocalypses) about being able to keep stable hormones legally. I'm definitely no saint, and my research had led me to cycle knowledge, which has also become part of my life, but that freedom is just so nice in that if I get hurt, or have an abscess - I can use the fact I'm on a script to seek medical attention.

It's worth the wait, trust me.

For halfape first, I'm not sure if my civilian doc channel would purposely hold me up as they don't know about my drug history in the past, the VA is the only one who knows this and my civilian doc doesn't know I use the VA for anything. In order to keep all that separate I had to tell the civilian doc that I decided not to use the VA anymore a few years back due to delays, had I said I use the VA sometimes they would of asked me to sign a release for my PCP at the VA... Then I would be screwed. I rather my civilian doc know nothing of my past for obvious reasons, but at the same time I feel like someone is trying to mess with me. Here's what's happening, my Medicare insurance (civilian insurance) requires a referral for nearly anything outside of a PCP so I went to PCP with initial symptoms. Before my TT labs came back my usual PCP went out for an emergency hysterectomy so she's out until July, the doc filling in is very anal about things. So labs come back with low TT and I ask her to order the other labs of FSH and LH.. Etc, she says no. She says they'll do a referral for the endo, I call endo a week later and they still didn't get it. I go back to PCP they say I'll send it again, still endo doesn't get it so I speak to endo myself and tell them about the TT, endo says well that isn't much info for me to go on but let's get the referral and go from there, back to PCP and they send a third referral that still hasn't came in. Some how or some way the endo claims the faxes are not coming in from PCP. All very odd, so I may be forced to try another avenue soon.

Halfwit,
Thanks for the reply again and I totally see where you're coming from. It's always best to know you don't need to hide anything or lie, or always know your test is pharm grade and you can have it legally in case of sources going down or contaminated UGL batches. I'm really trying to wait it out and do it the right way. May I ask what you manage yourself?

Also wanted to ask where is the best place to start for self research on the endocrine system? Clearly either way, whether I self TRT or see the doc I need to learn more so I can advocate for my health as best as possible. Mind you I have a basic understanding of some of it from physiology classes but they were many years ago and it was mostly basics. Just curious if you had any links or anything of stuff you read that helped you since you clearly taught yourself a huge magnitude of information. You are certainly one of the smartest folks on here, I realized that when I seen you explaining advanced math equations LOL.

Thanks again brothers!

 

[halfwit]

For halfape first, I'm not sure if my civilian doc channel would purposely hold me up as they don't know about my drug history in the past, the VA is the only one who knows this and my civilian doc doesn't know I use the VA for anything. In order to keep all that separate I had to tell the civilian doc that I decided not to use the VA anymore a few years back due to delays, had I said I use the VA sometimes they would of asked me to sign a release for my PCP at the VA... Then I would be screwed. I rather my civilian doc know nothing of my past for obvious reasons, but at the same time I feel like someone is trying to mess with me. Here's what's happening, my Medicare insurance (civilian insurance) requires a referral for nearly anything outside of a PCP so I went to PCP with initial symptoms. Before my TT labs came back my usual PCP went out for an emergency hysterectomy so she's out until July, the doc filling in is very anal about things. So labs come back with low TT and I ask her to order the other labs of FSH and LH.. Etc, she says no. She says they'll do a referral for the endo, I call endo a week later and they still didn't get it. I go back to PCP they say I'll send it again, still endo doesn't get it so I speak to endo myself and tell them about the TT, endo says well that isn't much info for me to go on but let's get the referral and go from there, back to PCP and they send a third referral that still hasn't came in. Some how or some way the endo claims the faxes are not coming in from PCP. All very odd, so I may be forced to try another avenue soon.

Halfwit,
Thanks for the reply again and I totally see where you're coming from. It's always best to know you don't need to hide anything or lie, or always know your test is pharm grade and you can have it legally in case of sources going down or contaminated UGL batches. I'm really trying to wait it out and do it the right way. May I ask what you manage yourself?

Also wanted to ask where is the best place to start for self research on the endocrine system? Clearly either way, whether I self TRT or see the doc I need to learn more so I can advocate for my health as best as possible. Mind you I have a basic understanding of some of it from physiology classes but they were many years ago and it was mostly basics. Just curious if you had any links or anything of stuff you read that helped you since you clearly taught yourself a huge magnitude of information. You are certainly one of the smartest folks on here, I realized that when I seen you explaining advanced math equations LOL.

Thanks again brothers!

Lol, I'm in engineering, so math is kind of a requisite haha.

So regarding the referral; do it in person. What happens is the physicians assistant will prepare the fax for the referral, and put it in a stack for the signature. If the doc is crazy busy (or a lazy shit), the stack won't move for days. This is when you go in person, and hand carry that shit to the new office.

I've done it before, and if they tell you they can't, they're full of shit.

I personally pull my own labs every 90 days or so, and manage my estradiol by use of an AI, and backfilling of other hormones with HCG. I cannot make suggestions on where to acquire such items as we're in the TRT forum, but I can tell you that it is doable.

My doctor requests total testosterone every year or so, and that's it. He continues to write me scripts for testosterone, but that's literally it. He knows I know what I'm doing and he has told me that he understands if I chose to self medicate (I never admit to ANYTHING) as his hands are tied due to being on a medical board, and off-label scripts (AI) are a nono.

I have been referred to many endos over the years, but none have passed my interview questions. If someone wants the job, I feel they should know at LEAST as much as I do in this realm, if not much more as it's their profession. I pretty much gave up, but I do try occasionally to see if a new hotshot endo is up to the Pepsi challenge, maybe I'll get lucky.

You will learn here a TREMENDOUS amount of information. The sticky thread is something I would have killed for when I started over six years ago! Then there are studies and online journals that help clear things up. Of course, knowledgeable members are always an awesome source to open some doors too.

 

[gruntwerk]

Lol, I'm in engineering, so math is kind of a requisite haha.

So regarding the referral; do it in person. What happens is the physicians assistant will prepare the fax for the referral, and put it in a stack for the signature. If the doc is crazy busy (or a lazy shit), the stack won't move for days. This is when you go in person, and hand carry that shit to the new office.

I've done it before, and if they tell you they can't, they're full of shit.

I personally pull my own labs every 90 days or so, and manage my estradiol by use of an AI, and backfilling of other hormones with HCG. I cannot make suggestions on where to acquire such items as we're in the TRT forum, but I can tell you that it is doable.

My doctor requests total testosterone every year or so, and that's it. He continues to write me scripts for testosterone, but that's literally it. He knows I know what I'm doing and he has told me that he understands if I chose to self medicate (I never admit to ANYTHING) as his hands are tied due to being on a medical board, and off-label scripts (AI) are a nono.

I have been referred to many endos over the years, but none have passed my interview questions. If someone wants the job, I feel they should know at LEAST as much as I do in this realm, if not much more as it's their profession. I pretty much gave up, but I do try occasionally to see if a new hotshot endo is up to the Pepsi challenge, maybe I'll get lucky.

You will learn here a TREMENDOUS amount of information. The sticky thread is something I would have killed for when I started over six years ago! Then there are studies and online journals that help clear things up. Of course, knowledgeable members are always an awesome source to open some doors too.

Thanks again man I do appreciate it.

I have read the sticky that Megatron wrote but I need to read all the following posts, this forum is great and you guys are great for taking the time to share the knowledge you have put together.

I did not know a doc would not typically write an AI for off label use, that's something I will likely have to do on my own as well. I know you can't talk about the sources but I'm pretty sure I know a few with arimidex and HCG, also have both stock piled here already. Did you notice a difference using the HCG vs. test only or did you never try test only? I'm not worried about having kids as I already have 3 but does the HCG help you feel any better? I know it helps recovery easier when cycling but what does it do for you if you're not after recovery or fertility?

I may wait until my normal PCP comes back because I know she will order all the labs, and I also know she will order the MRI's and all other medical testing needed to rule out a real problem. I am also positive I could get her to RX the testosterone as she's super laid back but I would need to learn and manage everything else my self. She had told me before she would RX me test but I never followed up with the labs and stuff in time before her surgery as it was am emergency. I spoke with her on the phone and she told me there isn't much she can do from home right now as it wouldn't be unethical for her to step on the other doctors toes and she needs to log into the computer system to even order stuff.

So yeah.. I may just wait for her to come back and have her run the basic tests to make sure I don't have a tumor or something wild like that. Don't think I do anyway pretty sure it's opiates and other bodily abuse, the cyst is likely too. So with that I would have her just do my test and I would manage the rest and do labs in PA. I will most likely go get my labs done right after the first so I can find out about the e2 and FSH, and LH.

How do you go about managing your protocol? Like AI dose, HCG dose, and your test dose? I get everyone is different and you're a big dude so your doses may be higher. I know you said labs every 90 days so where do you typically keep your TT and e2 at number wise? Do you donate every 56 days? Just in general how you run your protocol I'm curious.

 

[halfape211]

Thanks again man I do appreciate it.

I have read the sticky that Megatron wrote but I need to read all the following posts, this forum is great and you guys are great for taking the time to share the knowledge you have put together.

I did not know a doc would not typically write an AI for off label use, that's something I will likely have to do on my own as well. I know you can't talk about the sources but I'm pretty sure I know a few with arimidex and HCG, also have both stock piled here already. Did you notice a difference using the HCG vs. test only or did you never try test only? I'm not worried about having kids as I already have 3 but does the HCG help you feel any better? I know it helps recovery easier when cycling but what does it do for you if you're not after recovery or fertility?

I may wait until my normal PCP comes back because I know she will order all the labs, and I also know she will order the MRI's and all other medical testing needed to rule out a real problem. I am also positive I could get her to RX the testosterone as she's super laid back but I would need to learn and manage everything else my self. She had told me before she would RX me test but I never followed up with the labs and stuff in time before her surgery as it was am emergency. I spoke with her on the phone and she told me there isn't much she can do from home right now as it wouldn't be unethical for her to step on the other doctors toes and she needs to log into the computer system to even order stuff.

So yeah.. I may just wait for her to come back and have her run the basic tests to make sure I don't have a tumor or something wild like that. Don't think I do anyway pretty sure it's opiates and other bodily abuse, the cyst is likely too. So with that I would have her just do my test and I would manage the rest and do labs in PA. I will most likely go get my labs done right after the first so I can find out about the e2 and FSH, and LH.

How do you go about managing your protocol? Like AI dose, HCG dose, and your test dose? I get everyone is different and you're a big dude so your doses may be higher. I know you said labs every 90 days so where do you typically keep your TT and e2 at number wise? Do you donate every 56 days? Just in general how you run your protocol I'm curious.

I'll jump in with my experiences and maybe it will help until Halfwit fills you in better. First, my TRT doc started me on AI right along with T cyp. So those doctors that have training will write scripts for off label AI. It is not this way with all on TRT, but HCG made a difference to me. My nuts stopped paining from 'test only' TRT, because HCG makes them work again. This a healthy thing. And the HPTA pathways starts to work again. Another healthy thing. And now that the HPTA pathway is making DHEA, I think I feel a better sense of well being. Do some searches in this forum.

Regarding blood tests, it would be really nice to have a baseline blood test on PCA, HCT, E2, TT of course, plus other tests as suggested in this forum. I picked these tests because in the event these numbers are high before you start TRT, you will be able to show your doctor that the T injections did not cause the supposed problems and you may not have to drop your dose of T to lower the problem numbers. Personally, I would wait at least 4-6 weeks until you get a blood test after starting TRT because it takes time for the amount of T to build up in your body. By roughly 8 weeks your TT should be about max.

 

[halfwit]

Thanks again man I do appreciate it.

I have read the sticky that Megatron wrote but I need to read all the following posts, this forum is great and you guys are great for taking the time to share the knowledge you have put together.

I did not know a doc would not typically write an AI for off label use, that's something I will likely have to do on my own as well. I know you can't talk about the sources but I'm pretty sure I know a few with arimidex and HCG, also have both stock piled here already. Did you notice a difference using the HCG vs. test only or did you never try test only? I'm not worried about having kids as I already have 3 but does the HCG help you feel any better? I know it helps recovery easier when cycling but what does it do for you if you're not after recovery or fertility?

I may wait until my normal PCP comes back because I know she will order all the labs, and I also know she will order the MRI's and all other medical testing needed to rule out a real problem. I am also positive I could get her to RX the testosterone as she's super laid back but I would need to learn and manage everything else my self. She had told me before she would RX me test but I never followed up with the labs and stuff in time before her surgery as it was am emergency. I spoke with her on the phone and she told me there isn't much she can do from home right now as it wouldn't be unethical for her to step on the other doctors toes and she needs to log into the computer system to even order stuff.

So yeah.. I may just wait for her to come back and have her run the basic tests to make sure I don't have a tumor or something wild like that. Don't think I do anyway pretty sure it's opiates and other bodily abuse, the cyst is likely too. So with that I would have her just do my test and I would manage the rest and do labs in PA. I will most likely go get my labs done right after the first so I can find out about the e2 and FSH, and LH.

How do you go about managing your protocol? Like AI dose, HCG dose, and your test dose? I get everyone is different and you're a big dude so your doses may be higher. I know you said labs every 90 days so where do you typically keep your TT and e2 at number wise? Do you donate every 56 days? Just in general how you run your protocol I'm curious.

The biggest difference between TRT with and without HCG for me would be a better mental clarity (likely pregnenolone and DHEA being brought back up) and sexual intensity. TRT reminds you very quickly that there are two genders, and you REALLY appreciate the feminine variety, HCG honestly made orgasms more powerful and the act itself more pleasurable.

If you have a very liberal doctor, odds are you won't have to worry about the off-label use issue, as much as it still is up to the physician. I just happen to live in a very conservative part of the country, where there are more retirees than anyone else. So having the desire to optimize is foreign to much of the medical community here - unless you want to pay for it.

My prescribed dose is 250mg/wk of testosterone, and I add 500iu of HCG in two doses at 250iu each. I have experimented a bit with different AIs, and while letro was the biggest bang for the buck, it is harsh on lipids. I am currently on 0.25mg of arimidex twice a week, which keeps me at around 25-30pg/ml of estradiol at 1000ng/dL of total test.

My doc has pulled free testosterone before, and I had to explain to him that TRT guys will almost ALWAYS have a higher free test as our SHBG is decreased by exogenous testosterone alone. He did some research, and came to the same conclusion, but it is something I do need to be mindful of.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that this has been the best thing I have ever fought for as my life has changed 1000% for the better. I was literally dying before, now I can outpace the 20 somethings at the gym. It's a complete godsend in every way, which makes waiting that little but longer (if you can) that much sweeter.

Hope that helps.

 

[gruntwerk]

Halfape and halfwit (lol odd right?) thanks to you both for sharing your experience and knowledge, I think I may try out the HCG too and see how it helps.

I wanted to give you guys the latest update because I'm sort of nervous now, my normal PCP thats on leave ending up calling me right after my last post here yesterday to let me know she talked to the physician filling in for her. She ended up convincing the part time doc too to order all the labs so I went in and gave the blood, little did I know the receptionist for the doc office seen me in passing and said here don't forget your scripts, I was so confused. I asked her whats up and looked at the RX slips and sure enough one for test-eth, one for arimidex and they sent the order in for pins, I was mind blown. I call the doc and she says she wanted me to start feeling better so for now start the meds - she wants me to take 150mg of the test-e a week and half an arimidex so .5mg a week.

So now I go fill it, didn't pick up the pins as I already have a surplus but the meds are costly without insurance. Anyway long story short I pinned .3ml on the test-e in my quad so 75mg and will take the other 75mg on Thursday night, also took half my AI dose and will take the other half according to the sticky on Thursday. She said they will see what the labs bring up and go from there with testing, then we will do new labs soon for TT and e2. Have not started my HCG because I wanted to talk to you guys first.

So after my pin yesterday I had noticed my leg was sore in the quad and I had a small swollen spot around injection site, seems a lot better today so is that pretty common? seems it as looking thru other threads? So take it easy on me here but I sort of panicked after I took my shot.. now this is crazy because I used to shoot street grade heroin into a vein, where as this is an IM medicine, but ever since I got clean a few years ago I fear taking things sometimes because I'm lucky to be alive. So what happened was I thought I felt a chest pain, now I know this isn't possible as I've seen it here and else where that it takes 4 weeks to kick in, then my heart rate went up a bit which I'm sure is all psychological, I started thinking about some of the scary stuff I read in the media on test LOL.

So what are the things I need to lookout for? Is it typical for a low TRT dose to cause significant changes in lipid profiles when used with a low dose of arimidex? I eat a healthy diet rich in whole grains, fruit, veggies and lean meats as well as healthy fats, and normally have a healthy lipid profile. I take fish oil, vitamin e, mens one a day multi-v, NAC, CoQ10, milk thistle, and I have red yeast rice around. Anything else I should be taking?

Health risks that are common with TRT? Honestly it seems like sitting in my current hormonal state is less safe then replacing the test and lowering the e2. The doc says she assumes my e2 is likely very high giving some of the signs I show or symptoms and she said it's just also very common to have elevated e2 when test is low, she also went on to say that high e2 in men can cause tons of terrible things just as Ive read here. So what should I watch out with on how I feel? I'm a healthy person other than this, liver values are good, kidney function test is good, BP is usually great but can spike sometimes (doc said she thinks I'm retaining fluid from the high e2), heart is good according to the stress-echo I had only 3 weeks ago.

Sorry for so many questions... I just get nervous as I know my doctor only did this because I was harassing them, I mean shes super kind to me and went out of her way but I also can tell she wanted to be left alone LOL. So I'll following up with labs in 4 weeks and will also start pulling my own in PA, hopefully the labs I just had come back soon so I know what's up with all the other levels. I also think I may start the HCG on Thursday but I'm afraid of it bumping my e2 a lot higher.

Thanks again guys!!

 

[halfwit]

Ugh, I understand why you did what you did, but I would have at least found out if you're primary or secondary first. I guess if that question ever comes up in the future, you'll just be in for a bumpy ride.

Pain (Post Injection Pain - PIP) is TOTALLY normal and to be expected. You're putting not only oil into a muscle belly, but also teensy little sharp crystals of hormone. Add to the fact that you're literally cutting the skin/fat/fascia/muscle with a little knife, it's going to be angry. This will pass, but you need to be sure to rotate sites in order to prevent scar tissue formation.

I don't see any glaring issues with your supplements, and arimidex has a minimal impact on lipids. If you really need the specifics, I might be able to find the study that compared all three AIs with respect to lipid impact - but I'd rather not haha.

Health risks... Hmmmm. There are a TON of them!




If you don't control estradiol and hematocrit by donating blood/use of an AI that is.

Other than those two things, you're pretty much at the same risks as a healthy male, with a potential for a slightly elevated risk of left ventricular hypertrophy (enlarged heart), but you face certain premature death (not exaggerating) if you remain hypogonadal. Take your meds, keep track of hormones/other markers, and you'll live a longer and healthier life. That is medical fact.

Don't worry about estradiol yet. You have the fastest acting AI (48hrs) at your disposal; HCG (unless hypersensitive) won't rain on your parade, but it's understandable if you want to take your time.

Hmm, the symptoms you had are likely mental, although if you hit a vein - you may cough and feel a tightness in your chest. You KNOW you're doing something unnatural, and your brain kicks in the sympathetic nervous system; heart rate, respirations, and adrenaline release are also normal the first few times. Oddly, IV scares me far more than IM, but I never had crossed that line in my addict days as I was constantly fed scripts for pills. You'll become used to it though.

I think that covers everything, and I wouldn't be surprised if you start feeling better sooner than the traditional four weeks as you were very hypogonadal, and even half-saturation will be an improvement.

Keep us posted on your progress, and welcome to the club!

 

[halfape211]

Halfape and halfwit (lol odd right?) thanks to you both for sharing your experience and knowledge, I think I may try out the HCG too and see how it helps.

I wanted to give you guys the latest update because I'm sort of nervous now, my normal PCP thats on leave ending up calling me right after my last post here yesterday to let me know she talked to the physician filling in for her. She ended up convincing the part time doc too to order all the labs so I went in and gave the blood, little did I know the receptionist for the doc office seen me in passing and said here don't forget your scripts, I was so confused. I asked her whats up and looked at the RX slips and sure enough one for test-eth, one for arimidex and they sent the order in for pins, I was mind blown. I call the doc and she says she wanted me to start feeling better so for now start the meds - she wants me to take 150mg of the test-e a week and half an arimidex so .5mg a week.

So now I go fill it, didn't pick up the pins as I already have a surplus but the meds are costly without insurance. Anyway long story short I pinned .3ml on the test-e in my quad so 75mg and will take the other 75mg on Thursday night, also took half my AI dose and will take the other half according to the sticky on Thursday. She said they will see what the labs bring up and go from there with testing, then we will do new labs soon for TT and e2. Have not started my HCG because I wanted to talk to you guys first.

So after my pin yesterday I had noticed my leg was sore in the quad and I had a small swollen spot around injection site, seems a lot better today so is that pretty common? seems it as looking thru other threads? So take it easy on me here but I sort of panicked after I took my shot.. now this is crazy because I used to shoot street grade heroin into a vein, where as this is an IM medicine, but ever since I got clean a few years ago I fear taking things sometimes because I'm lucky to be alive. So what happened was I thought I felt a chest pain, now I know this isn't possible as I've seen it here and else where that it takes 4 weeks to kick in, then my heart rate went up a bit which I'm sure is all psychological, I started thinking about some of the scary stuff I read in the media on test LOL.

So what are the things I need to lookout for? Is it typical for a low TRT dose to cause significant changes in lipid profiles when used with a low dose of arimidex? I eat a healthy diet rich in whole grains, fruit, veggies and lean meats as well as healthy fats, and normally have a healthy lipid profile. I take fish oil, vitamin e, mens one a day multi-v, NAC, CoQ10, milk thistle, and I have red yeast rice around. Anything else I should be taking?

Health risks that are common with TRT? Honestly it seems like sitting in my current hormonal state is less safe then replacing the test and lowering the e2. The doc says she assumes my e2 is likely very high giving some of the signs I show or symptoms and she said it's just also very common to have elevated e2 when test is low, she also went on to say that high e2 in men can cause tons of terrible things just as Ive read here. So what should I watch out with on how I feel? I'm a healthy person other than this, liver values are good, kidney function test is good, BP is usually great but can spike sometimes (doc said she thinks I'm retaining fluid from the high e2), heart is good according to the stress-echo I had only 3 weeks ago.

Sorry for so many questions... I just get nervous as I know my doctor only did this because I was harassing them, I mean shes super kind to me and went out of her way but I also can tell she wanted to be left alone LOL. So I'll following up with labs in 4 weeks and will also start pulling my own in PA, hopefully the labs I just had come back soon so I know what's up with all the other levels. I also think I may start the HCG on Thursday but I'm afraid of it bumping my e2 a lot higher.

Thanks again guys!!

I did not realize my name would be somewhat similar to Halfwit as I was mainly thinking about the ape part. What I get a kick out of is that a guy named "Halfwit" is one of the smartest guys in this forum. That's what is odd. (1) Anyways I'm a little confused about the .3ml being equal to .75mg. (2) It's somewhat common to have a little discomfort when injecting. ----So Jab quick to get into the skin quickly and then slow down the speed of injection. As a very rough guideline spend 15 -30 seconds pushing it in. Search PIP, etc in this forum. Check You tube. You should get the hang of it very soon and you will be fine. (3) regarding what problems to look for. Relax..., relax..., That's part of a classic panic attack: the 'what if this problem happens?, or that problem?' You actually have a better handle on this than many other new TRT guys. Between your research, your doctor and mainly this forum, you are going to do great. I mean it. So relax. Everything is going in a great direction. The guys in this forum saved my ass many times. I'm sure they will do the same for you. and (4) Take your T, armidex and HCG as prescribed by Doctor, and then include E2 with your other blood tests when the time comes. HCG should not increase E2 very much, if at all, and has other benefits that you want going on from the start. So include HCG in your protocol from the start.

Lastly, Sounds like you have a kind and caring doctor. Your very lucky, because that's unusual. So hopefully you may never have a reason to do your own TRT. Keep us posted

Ooops. I did not see Halfwit's reply as I think it just popped up now. I'm going to bed.

 

[gruntwerk]

Ugh, I understand why you did what you did, but I would have at least found out if you're primary or secondary first. I guess if that question ever comes up in the future, you'll just be in for a bumpy ride.

Pain (Post Injection Pain - PIP) is TOTALLY normal and to be expected. You're putting not only oil into a muscle belly, but also teensy little sharp crystals of hormone. Add to the fact that you're literally cutting the skin/fat/fascia/muscle with a little knife, it's going to be angry. This will pass, but you need to be sure to rotate sites in order to prevent scar tissue formation.

I don't see any glaring issues with your supplements, and arimidex has a minimal impact on lipids. If you really need the specifics, I might be able to find the study that compared all three AIs with respect to lipid impact - but I'd rather not haha.

Health risks... Hmmmm. There are a TON of them!




If you don't control estradiol and hematocrit by donating blood/use of an AI that is.

Other than those two things, you're pretty much at the same risks as a healthy male, with a potential for a slightly elevated risk of left ventricular hypertrophy (enlarged heart), but you face certain premature death (not exaggerating) if you remain hypogonadal. Take your meds, keep track of hormones/other markers, and you'll live a longer and healthier life. That is medical fact.

Don't worry about estradiol yet. You have the fastest acting AI (48hrs) at your disposal; HCG (unless hypersensitive) won't rain on your parade, but it's understandable if you want to take your time.

Hmm, the symptoms you had are likely mental, although if you hit a vein - you may cough and feel a tightness in your chest. You KNOW you're doing something unnatural, and your brain kicks in the sympathetic nervous system; heart rate, respirations, and adrenaline release are also normal the first few times. Oddly, IV scares me far more than IM, but I never had crossed that line in my addict days as I was constantly fed scripts for pills. You'll become used to it though.

I think that covers everything, and I wouldn't be surprised if you start feeling better sooner than the traditional four weeks as you were very hypogonadal, and even half-saturation will be an improvement.

Keep us posted on your progress, and welcome to the club!

I knew you would be dissapointed but I still had labs pulled for LH and FSH, doc called me today and said LH and FSH were above normal and TT was still 140's, I didn't get the exact numbers so I have to go get a print out of it. Anyway that would wave towards primary correct? According to the sticky typically high LH and FSH means the pituitary is yelling at the testes but they're not producing hence why it goes above normal.

Endo also called today also and I'm still going to follow up with them on May 20th, they will pull labs there they said to see how the treatment is going. So I still plan to follow up on the cause of all this.

I also figured I was being paranoid, I've had issues with that since I gave up the street drugs - I dodged so many death wishes well using that now I'm afraid my lucks out and one slip up then I'm done LOL. I have been reading more on low TT and high e2 and it really does seem the risks of NOT fixing the hypogonadism are worse than the risk from synthetic test - if you take good care of yourself that is.

I do not need the links to the studies... I trust you read and understood it better than I could. So I will take your word that arimidex wont kill my lipids in low doses.

I am hoping to feel better around 2-3 wees, even a slight improvement. I know the chances are good because like you said just being half way there should be better then TT at 149. I also took an extra .5 of the arimidex as just sort boost and I noticed now that is has been 48 hours I think I can tell a small difference in bloat, is this possible? Seems like I have less water retention already.

I setup an appointment to go deliver blood tomorrow evening, my hematocrit is only 42 right now but I want to stay on it and keep it low normal is possible this way I run less of a risk of it getting away on me.