steroid clinic adviser/doctor told me different

[andyjames]

haha i will do mate Rather taje advice of you guys than a guy sat behind a desk

 

[Millertime]

Don't know about you guys, but when riprockwell and Millertime have something to say, I'd listen. They've been around the block a few times and know what they're talking about. Sorry OP, but you got really bad advice from your "clinic" guy. Do yourself, and your penis a favor and take the advice in here to heart.

My .02c

Appreciate that halfwit. I learn something new every day and glad theres guys like you here to share your knowledge and experience.

 

[joe d]

A 6 week cycle of what?

test, orals, tren, npp, etc. i found short blasts to be best for me.

 

[joe d]

I can respect your opinion but just like you have your opinion about shutdown, so do I. I think it is really hard to say that shut down is different from an 8 week cycle as compared to a 12 week cycle. Not sure if anyone has factual data to support both of our statements. From my personal experience long ester gear is way better for keeping gains than short cycles and the degree of shutdown is dependent on the person. And what I was getting at was shutdown is shutdown. I define the term shutdown as being shutdown. I don't say "Hey this guy is shut down less than this guy." To me, it's all the same when your natural testosterone is inhibited. And I think anyone who has a lot of cycle experience under their belt can agree that long ester cycles is the way to go. Not saying short esters don't work, but you can't compare your weak 6 week cycle compared to a 12-16 week long ester cycle. On the longer cycle, the gains may be slower, but they are more steady. And because you didn't lose a thing in your first 5-6 runs is foolish to attribute that to gear. We all know how big of a role diet plays. A lot of gains confuse gains and loses with what the scale says. Not being a dick but I think you missed my point. Shutdown is shutdown. I have known guys to run a 20 week cycle and recover and a friend running an 8 week test prop cycle and never recover. Flip a coin is what I am saying. But I will say that long ester test is the way to go if you want more solid gains. Trust me on that.

there is lots of good evidence to support the idea that the longer you are shut down the harder it will be to recover. there is plenty of evidence to support the shorter runs being less damaging on a blood panel. i know the last part was off topic here.
lets say you took a single dose of test suspension. it would shut you down right? recovery would happen within a couple days naturally for a healthy guy. now the other extreme. go on for a few years or so then try to recover. chances are against you. as far as how minimal the difference is from 8 weeks to 12... not a whole lot but its something. when you stack it with the better bloods and the ability to get back on sooner on a guy who holds it together well on the shorter run, why not? but yea if you have a hard time with losing what you gained on a short run then you have to work with what you've got.

 

[joe d]

Correct we have our opinions but we can compile what we have done over the years and realize what works best for most people and what makes the most sense. So as for an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), why wouldn't someone want to control estrogen from the start?? AI's can't do a ton of damage on a 12 week cycle. If you are running them year round, then they need to be something you monitor. I have been on an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) for the last 3 years straight as part of my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) regime. My blood work and health is fine. It always make sense to control estrogen from the start. Lets say this guy cycles and doesn't run an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). During the cycle he experiences some excess water retention and higher blood pressure. Then he realizes he can't get a hard on. Then he starts getting lumps in his nipples. Now he is battling quite a bit of symptoms and now has more of a chance of overdoing the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and tanking his estrogen and battle the symptoms of having his E too low. As for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), some guys run it throughout and some guys blast it at the end. It makes more sense to run it through. Would you rather clean your room every day for 10 minutes and pick up your garbage or would you rather clean it once a month and it take hours for you to clean it. The theory with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is that it is better to keep the horse in the barn rather to chase it across 3 counties. So from that standpoint, it makes more sense to keep your balls from atrophy and have them produce testosterone while on cycle. Besides, when you blast Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at the end in larger amounts, it increases estrogen levels which is the last thing you want. So it makes more sense to shoot it twice per week throughout the cycle. Just because guys can recover from an Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) blast at the end doesn't mean it was smart to not use it throughout the cycle.

the points you are using are for sides that many do not experience on a shorter run. if they do it is minimal. no one fully understands the risks of the ai's we use just the same as with the serms. there is more long term research on the serms though. anyway i chose to use ai's myself. i just dont really support the idea of thinking someone is an idiot or talking out their ass just because they have a pretty workable plan that is different from mine. the methods talked about in the op are not as uncommon as they seem here on this board.

 

[joe d]

Well like someone stated, shut down is shut down.. why do that to yourself? why take on something if you're NOT fully COMMITTED?! Secondly.. Last I checked juice doesn't affect your blood eh, your blood doesn't go out of wack... Most cases its your hormones... They don't go out of wack either and when you stop injecting for the most part, you cannnn control everything that happens after. Thirdly we get lab work done because we check our hormones to make sure our gear is legit and for some of us who run orals, like myself, need to make sure our liver is still good...
(Good work rookie)


anavar only.. lolll

I don't really have an opinion on this since I'm a chick and we run a little differently. I however would suggest a 10-12 weeks cycle for your first time... If you're not committed, then why bother and fuck with your little testies?

actually its not like that. shutdown for a day is far easier to recover from than shutdown for a year right? we are talking duration not any bro-science levels of shutdown from different esters, doses, or compounds.

 

[joe d]

Well like someone stated, shut down is shut down.. why do that to yourself? why take on something if you're NOT fully COMMITTED?! Secondly.. Last I checked juice doesn't affect your blood eh, your blood doesn't go out of wack... Most cases its your hormones... They don't go out of wack either and when you stop injecting for the most part, you cannnn control everything that happens after. Thirdly we get lab work done because we check our hormones to make sure our gear is legit and for some of us who run orals, like myself, need to make sure our liver is still good...
(Good work rookie)


ana Anavar (var) only.. lolll

I don't really have an opinion on this since I'm a chick and we run a little differently. I however would suggest a 10-12 weeks cycle for your first time... If you're not committed, then why bother and fuck with your little testies?

i like the Anavar (var) bit haha. Anavar (var) wasnt a big compound for me except at high doses at the end of a cut. some athletes (wrestling, mma, etc) would have a different opinion though since it works well at helping them boost their athletic performance.

 

[joe d]

I read years ago that a strength coach suggested short cycling to maintain better all around gains throughout the year. Sounded great 6 on 6 off. Unfortunatel at the 6 week mark is when your body really starts to grow. So your body's natural test is shut down, body is starting really grow, and you stop to post cycle therapy (pct). Now you go threw post cycle therapy (pct) but whether its a 6 week or 12 week your recovery time is gonna be the same. So after 6 weeks I start right back up, body still not back to normal, again takes 6 weeks to really start to grow and boom you stop again. Your cheating yourself on what you could look like. All your doing is maintaining average. Why do I want to cycle to see average I wanna look great. All I can say is give it a go and give it a fair shot by doing a few. Once you do you'll never short cycle again.

actually for me this is all completely wrong. for many others also. i think a couple others chimed in with similar reports to mine. have you personally ever put some efforts into making use of short runs? if you have and you couldnt make it work then fine it doesnt work for you, but that doesnt take anything away from it being a good method for many.

 

[joe d]

This is the truth.

no its not lol. how can you speak so bluntly for everyone when many say it works great for them? are we all lying to try to hide the truth haha?

 

[joe d]

haha i will do mate Rather taje advice of you guys than a guy sat behind a desk

yes definitely dont ever run less than 12 weeks. aas only work if you use them for 12 weeks or more. and hell since shutdown is shutdown no matter how long your on why not just go on indefinitely now since you can just run the standard post cycle therapy (pct) any time and have the same recovery chances

 

[Millertime]

actually for me this is all completely wrong. for many others also. i think a couple others chimed in with similar reports to mine. have you personally ever put some efforts into making use of short runs? if you have and you couldnt make it work then fine it doesnt work for you, but that doesnt take anything away from it being a good method for many.

Hey man do what you think works for you. Its better to do it yourself and learn that way then just do what someone else says. I already jumped on that bandwagon and truly thought the idea of above average gains year round was gonna be perfect for me. Lower bp, cholesterol, and quicker test recovery sounded great. After doing it for several cycles I realized that my natural test shut down just as hard as a longer cycle, yes bp and cholesterol were lower on average but my gains suffered greatly. I personally found out for myself that if I'm gonna shut myself down I'm gonna have the gains to show for it. Short cycles will not give the gains 99% of guys are looking for. You might be the exception so if you are then good luck and I hope it works out for you.

 

[riprockwell]

test, orals, tren, npp, etc. i found short blasts to be best for me.

This is comical. Especially you running tren for 6 weeks. Oh, I bet you noticed such great gains. You must be superman. I completely forgot man. Honestly, you seem to have missed the short bus today and what we are getting at. But since I am in a giving mood today, let me break some points down for you.

there is lots of good evidence to support the idea that the longer you are shut down the harder it will be to recover. there is plenty of evidence to support the shorter runs being less damaging on a blood panel. i know the last part was off topic here.
lets say you took a single dose of test suspension. it would shut you down right? recovery would happen within a couple days naturally for a healthy guy. now the other extreme. go on for a few years or so then try to recover. chances are against you. as far as how minimal the difference is from 8 weeks to 12... not a whole lot but its something. when you stack it with the better bloods and the ability to get back on sooner on a guy who holds it together well on the shorter run, why not? but yea if you have a hard time with losing what you gained on a short run then you have to work with what you've got.

Of course that makes sense. No one is arguing that. Of course there is a degree of shutdown depending on the length of the cycle. Of course if a guy has been on 2 years as compared to a guy of 2 months, there would be a difference in the degree in shutdown. No one is arguing that. I mean if a person does meth 3 times per week as compared to someone who does it 10 times per week would you still call them a methhead?? I sure as shit would. What I am saying is that an 8 week cycle is negligible as compared to a 12 weeker. And again, if we want to get technical, a guy can run a 20 weeker and recover and another guy can run a dbol only cycle for 4 weeks like you would and perhaps NEVER recover. Again, you are missing the point of what we are saying. Then you say a guy will be able to get back on sooner after shorter cycles. You reason time on + test clearing time + post cycle therapy (pct) = Time off. So sure you get back quicker on a short cycle but you weren***8217;t on as long either so it cancels itself out minus the fact it clears a tad quicker which again is negligible.

the points you are using are for sides that many do not experience on a shorter run. if they do it is minimal. no one fully understands the risks of the ai's we use just the same as with the serms. there is more long term research on the serms though. anyway i chose to use ai's myself. i just dont really support the idea of thinking someone is an idiot or talking out their ass just because they have a pretty workable plan that is different from mine. the methods talked about in the op are not as uncommon as they seem here on this board.

Again, an idiotic statement. So you are saying that short ester gear does not have as many sides as long ester gear. You must be an estertician. Lol. Guys can get the same sides from Test P as they do from Test E or C. So again, that is a dumb statement to make and one that is not truth. Sides have to do with a lot of things such as the person itself, the amount of hormone, increased androgens, etc. I could go on and on but I am sure you get my point. And again, you don***8217;t even remember the point of this thread. The OP was advised to take Nolva during cycle and all I said was that was incorrect unless he is a rare breed who takes an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) such as Adex during cycle and still gets Gyno even with his estrogen in check. Which is very unlikely by the way but I know it has happened to some guys. The OP was also advised that it would be harder to recover. Again like I said, there is always the possibility of never recovering even if you run a 2 week cycle. I had to reemphasize that for you.

actually for me this is all completely wrong. for many others also. i think a couple others chimed in with similar reports to mine. have you personally ever put some efforts into making use of short runs? if you have and you couldnt make it work then fine it doesnt work for you, but that doesnt take anything away from it being a good method for many.

I can tell you that Millertime doesn***8217;t do retarded cycles like you. And again, you are confusing water retention and calling it muscle by the way. Anyone who has seriously run Tren Ace will tell you that the results are not amazing by ending it at 6 weeks. But since Tren shuts you down hard, that was a good move right?? To run a weak cycle and not get the most of out it with shutdown included. Genius.

Again please do what you want to do. You can continue to run your 6 week tren ace cycles***8230;..lol and I will run my 10 week tren ace cycles.

 

[riprockwell]

And now after my rant, we can all laugh at this shit......

Here is Joe D's response after someone said that oral only cycles were retarded...... So I guess I must have missed the lecture. I didn't know Dbol only cycles were better than 500mg per week of test cycles. Hmmmmm. Might have to rethink my approach. Lol.

thats only if you dont know how to do it right though (except the shutdown part. it all shuts you down). if you do it right you can have the same success as your 500 test only with out having to worry about pining and of course it will clear a lot faster if issues arise.

get the adex and clomid like advised. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is probably always better to use than not but on a 10 week mild cycle like this you should be fine without it.

Now he is calling a 10 week cycle mild. Hmmmm. I thought that was a long cycle to you Joe. Hmmmmm.

oh yea you should bounce back quick.

Oh this is Joe commenting on a guys 10 week cycle saying he should bounce back quick. I thought he would be shutdown for a long time.

And on top of that, you give out advice that oral only cycles are great such as Dbol and Anavar (var) and that Dbol actually improves sex drive. No shit. I guess I haven't been doing it right over the past decade. Lol. And don't get me wrong, when I was young and dumb, I was running Winstrol (winny) by itself back in the day. That was before I researched and knew anything or had access to anything. I wouldn't suggest it now. Its 2013. Lets get with the times. Where is DaDawg when you need him....

 

[Millertime]

^^^^^ that's some funny shit riprockwell!!! Tuff to respond to that!

 

[German89]

And now after my rant, we can all laugh at this shit......

Here is Joe D's response after someone said that oral only cycles were retarded...... So I guess I must have missed the lecture. I didn't know Dbol only cycles were better than 500mg per week of test cycles. Hmmmmm. Might have to rethink my approach. Lol.





Now he is calling a 10 week cycle mild. Hmmmm. I thought that was a long cycle to you Joe. Hmmmmm.



Oh this is Joe commenting on a guys 10 week cycle saying he should bounce back quick. I thought he would be shutdown for a long time.

And on top of that, you give out advice that oral only cycles are great such as Dbol and Anavar (var) and that Dbol actually improves sex drive. No shit. I guess I haven't been doing it right over the past decade. Lol. And don't get me wrong, when I was young and dumb, I was running Winstrol (winny) by itself back in the day. That was before I researched and knew anything or had access to anything. I wouldn't suggest it now. Its 2013. Lets get with the times. Where is DaDawg when you need him....

lmfaoo... rip him a new asshole why don't 'cha... atta boy! proud of you!

 

[Mad- scientist]

Lol I actually read through every single one of every ones posts. And I have a few things to say. First I have ran a 12 week cycle using nolvadex as my source of lowering estrogen. And it was on accident because I was young and didn't realize the difference between nolvadex and arimadex. I ran a average of about 650 mgs of test a week. And my nipples got puffy still, I had symptoms of a swollen prostate, my face was really puffy from estrogen, I had really bad mood swings, and when I finally ended the cycle My estrogen was out of balance for a good 3 months. So I would say always no matter what follow the arimadex protocol estrogen fucks with your head a lot not to mention body. And I would say a long estered steroid doesn't even kick in really tell about a month give or take so really its almost like a 8 week cycle if you are on it for 12 weeks. Anyways though I have been to many steroid forrums and I think the general outline millertime and riprockwell have layed out are the most scientifically sound and realistically practical. When it comes to steroids stick to what is known and good and has been tried. I mean im sure rip Rockwell and miller time didn't come up with these methods and pass them along to all the professionals in the world. These methods have been trickled down to us from top pros and their doctors and people in the industry they are tried and true. And the members I have mentioned are just trying to reinforce that they are the best methods to these youngsters who promote d-bol only cycles and drink Smirnoff ice ha ha ha. My end advice is use arimadex through a cycle fuck taking only nolvadex I have done it and it made me almost never do steroids again ALMOST

 

[JJamz125]

I always thought with regards to Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) use that it is a chemical that tells your body to turn on its natural testosterone. Why would guys take that during a cycle when your are blasting a synthetic testosterone which is telling your body to shut down its normal production. That seems counter productive and a waste of a drug. Seems like you would just take the normal recommended dose after a cycle to flip the switch back on.

 

[riprockwell]

lmfaoo... rip him a new asshole why don't 'cha... atta boy! proud of you!

Haha. Not necessarily trying to rip him but I have to assume that Joe D is an experienced AAS user by the way he tries to come off and the fact that he has run tren. I seriously just can't take anyone serious who tells people to run Dbol and Anavar (var) only cycles unless you are a girl wanting to run Anavar (var) . I honestly wouldn't take any advice from someone who says that. Just like I wouldn't get trained by a fat ass personal trainer. Lol. He also just contradicts himself all the time. Its different if years ago he was saying this shit and now he is offering the right advice. Like I said, I don't know everything nor did I know everything when I first started. There were more contradictions that I didn't post because I was too lazy to post them. He mentions that just because AI's on cycle work for us, doesn't mean that they work for other people and that there isn't enough long term studies on them. Yet in one of his posts, he tells an OP that running an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) from the start of the cycle is what he should do which is exactly what I told the OP in this thread and Joe tries to argue with that. Totally contradicts himself yet again. He also had a post about saying that at around week 6 of his short ester test cycle, that his gains pretty much stopped which is exactly what Millertime was talking about. I can't find that post that Joe D had anymore. He must have edited it. Lol.

 

[riprockwell]

I always thought with regards to Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) use that it is a chemical that tells your body to turn on its natural testosterone. Why would guys take that during a cycle when your are blasting a synthetic testosterone which is telling your body to shut down its normal production. That seems counter productive and a waste of a drug. Seems like you would just take the normal recommended dose after a cycle to flip the switch back on.

I can see your thinking with this totally. However, just remember Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) signals your LH which causes your testicals to produce testosterone. I think its better for recovery to have them cranking during your cycle. I mean, which car is easier to start??? The one you drive 2 days ago or one that has been sitting for 4 months?? Thats my thinking behind it. Basically I would rather keep them cranking even if they are barely cranking than have my balls atrophy and die and have to perform CPR on them to get them back in action. But like I said, I don't necessarily think my way is right. It just makes more sense to me. If a guy wants to blast it at the end, thats his choice and a lot do it that way. I just view Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) usage in a common sense approach and it has always worked for me. Besides when you blast Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at the end, you have to blast higher amounts and we all know that can cause an increase in estrogen which isn't a good thing for the user.

 

[joe d]

This is comical. Especially you running tren for 6 weeks. Oh, I bet you noticed such great gains. You must be superman. I completely forgot man. Honestly, you seem to have missed the short bus today and what we are getting at. But since I am in a giving mood today, let me break some points down for you. i doubt you are capable



Of course that makes sense. No one is arguing that. actually someone did. someone said shutdown is shutdown in regards to the duration of the cycle. cutting a 3rd of the duration away from your cycle will make a notable difference in recovery.Of course there is a degree of shutdown depending on the length of the cycle. Of course if a guy has been on 2 years as compared to a guy of 2 months, there would be a difference in the degree in shutdown. No one is arguing that. I mean if a person does meth 3 times per week as compared to someone who does it 10 times per week would you still call them a methhead?? I sure as shit would. What I am saying is that an 8 week cycle is negligible as compared to a 12 weeker. i wouldnt go that far. the difference is clearly there. And again, if we want to get technical, a guy can run a 20 weeker and recover and another guy can run a dbol only cycle for 4 weeks like you would actually i wouldnt do that. but twisting things people say always helps an argument so i can see the point in it. and perhaps NEVER recover. Again, you are missing the point of what we are saying. Then you say a guy will be able to get back on sooner after shorter cycles. You reason time on + test clearing time + post cycle therapy (pct) = Time off. its actually not just that. it is that and the fact that test and overall health recovery happens faster so shortening the time can still allow the same break as you would with that formula after a longer run So sure you get back quicker on a short cycle but you weren***8217;t on as long either so it cancels itself out minus the fact it clears a tad quicker which again is negligible. you go completely wrong here also. when those who do it effectively blast 6 weeks they start gaining within the first couple weeks and continue to grow into post cycle therapy (pct). they lose little to nothing in their speedy recovery then when the next blast starts they start growing more. so sure 1 6 week run wont equate to what 1 12 week run would but over a long duration of time the gains would be better. and again im not saying this is for everybody. it does work well for many.



Again, an idiotic statement. i love the insults haha So you are saying that short ester gear does not have as many sides as long ester gear. lol no i was saying staying on for a shorter amount of time brings less sides.You must be an estertician. Lol. or you could be so quick to ridicule that your filling in your misunderstandings with assumptions that would be supportive to your argument. Guys can get the same sides from Test P as they do from Test E or C. So again, that is a dumb statement i agree it would have been dumb if someone actually thought that. i wouldnt tell them that way though lol. to make and one that is not truth. Sides have to do with a lot of things such as the person itself, the amount of hormone, increased androgens, dont forget time onetc. I could go on and on but I am sure you get my point i dont think you could. at least not with anything really supportive . And again, you don***8217;t even remember the point of this thread. oh i do remember. and as you can see i also agree on the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) over a serm. but my thoughts on that just like yours are guesses and can be proven. they are also not the opinions of anywhere near as many people as you may think. the masses in many parts of the world would do similar to the op quotes and they dont seem to suffer and worse than we do. The OP was advised to take Nolva during cycle and all I said was that was incorrect unless he is a rare breed who takes an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) such as Adex during cycle and still gets Gyno even with his estrogen in check. Which is very unlikely by the way but I know it has happened to some guys. The OP was also advised that it would be harder to recover. Again like I said, there is always the possibility of never recovering even if you run a 2 week cycle. I had to reemphasize that for you. well we can put the rare chance aside since we all roll the dice and just stick to what is easier to recover from and what is less taxing on overall health. common sense should prevail here



I can tell you that Millertime doesn***8217;t do retarded cycles like you. im glad to hear that proven effective cycles are retarded because you dont think they are good And again, you are confusing water retention and calling it muscle by the way. am i ? lol. so how do you know this? i always thought that i stayed pretty dry on cycles with my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) use and my diet. i also wasnt aware that the water retention stayed for years all while estro was in low normal range. Anyone who has seriously run Tren Ace will tell you that the results are not amazing by ending it at 6 weeks. lol no comment needed here But since Tren shuts you down hard, that was a good move right?? more incorrect assumptions made regardless of my actual statements to try to support yourself. good job. To run a weak cycle and not get the most of out it with shutdown included. Genius. cycling isnt about a single cycle. its about the big picture. slow and steady. keeping health. a persons aas use should be part of a big long term plan instead of planning it cycle to cycle as you go. it makes a big difference. part of this planning though would involve open minded extensive research. this doesnt happen on a message board, or by listing to a few people.

Again please do what you want to do. You can continue to run your 6 week tren ace cycles***8230;..lol and I will run my 10 week tren ace cycles. so defensive of your way being THE way lol. do your thing. i actually do not run anything but Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) anymore. i wish you the best of success and health

^^^^^