steroid clinic adviser/doctor told me different

[andyjames]

basically i went and got my sharps today and was talking to the guy who runs the steroid clinic round my area and we got into a discussion about estrogen on cycle i have read all the stickys on this site about it and what he said was i wouldnt need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on cycle unless i seen estrogen side effects then he suggested nolva instead of adex and he was saying aswell that i should do 8 week cycles instead of longer ones as it takes more time to recover post cycle and i will lose more gains can anyone give there 2cs on this as im confused as iv been told completly different of oligy members ..cheers

 

[Austinite]

basically i went and got my sharps today and was talking to the guy who runs the steroid clinic round my area and we got into a discussion about estrogen on cycle i have read all the stickys on this site about it and what he said was i wouldnt need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on cycle unless i seen estrogen side effects then he suggested nolva instead of adex and he was saying aswell that i should do 8 week cycles instead of longer ones as it takes more time to recover post cycle and i will lose more gains can anyone give there 2cs on this as im confused as iv been told completly different of oligy members ..cheers

That doctor is an idiot and knows nothing. Really needs to go back to school. Furthermore; you shouldn't be discussing cycling with anyone. What on earth does he know about cycling? Some testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patients do not require an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) as they administer a low dose and the conversion stays in range.

I would fire that doctor immediately.

 

[Millertime]

Short cycles are a waste and he's talking out his ass.

 

[riprockwell]

Definitely talking out his ass. Nolva is the old school approach before compounds like aromasin and adex were readily available. It is always better to keep estrogen in check from the start for numerous reasons such as blood pressure, water retention, ED issues, gyno, etc. Nolva blocks gyno from attaching to the receptors, however it does not lower total estrogen in the body. Adex and Aromasin will lower total estrogen in the body. And when estrogen is controlled, 95% of the guys out there will not have the issues I just stated. He is an idiot. And my theory is this.......The longer it takes to make gains, the harder they will be to lose. Shut down is shut down whether you are running a short ester test or long ester test. When you cycle, you take the risk regardless so I say a 12 week cycle with long ester test is better. Thats my 2 cents.

 

[joe d]

basically i went and got my sharps today and was talking to the guy who runs the steroid clinic round my area and we got into a discussion about estrogen on cycle i have read all the stickys on this site about it and what he said was i wouldnt need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on cycle unless i seen estrogen side effects then he suggested nolva instead of adex and he was saying aswell that i should do 8 week cycles instead of longer ones as it takes more time to recover post cycle and i will lose more gains can anyone give there 2cs on this as im confused as iv been told completly different of oligy members ..cheers

im not saying that the doctor is right about it all and for everyone but i can with an open mind see that ai's are bad for you. that elevated estro is also bad but it is more easily brought under control when you stop. again im not really agreeing with him.

as far as the 8 week thing and gains he is right for more people than we will ever know. too many people fall victim to not trying anything different. for me, i learned very early that a 6 week cycle did for me what a 10-12 week cycle did in the long run but it was easier on my health and in every other aspect too. plus it shortened the down time. thats not going to be for everyone though.

and for the nolva bit. well it will work if you start getting gyno symptoms but id be afraid of too much of that too. who knows what is really best.

 

[joe d]

Definitely talking out his ass. Nolva is the old school approach before compounds like aromasin and adex were readily available. It is always better to keep estrogen in check from the start for numerous reasons such as blood pressure, water retention, ED issues, gyno, etc. Nolva blocks gyno from attaching to the receptors, however it does not lower total estrogen in the body. Adex and Aromasin will lower total estrogen in the body. And when estrogen is controlled, 95% of the guys out there will not have the issues I just stated. He is an idiot. And my theory is this.......The longer it takes to make gains, the harder they will be to lose. Shut down is shut down whether you are running a short ester test or long ester test. When you cycle, you take the risk regardless so I say a 12 week cycle with long ester test is better. Thats my 2 cents.

i can see all of your points to a degree except the shutdown part. your argument is in the wrong direction. the doctor is saying recovery will be easier because you would not be shutdown as long. this is true. and the easier recovery also helps to keep your gains, minimize unhealthy sides, and let you get back on sooner. not everyone has an issue holding gains after a short blast. i didnt lose a thing for probably my first 5 or 6 short runs.

 

[joe d]

again op im not suggesting you follow this docs plans to a t. just conversation.

 

[joe d]

Short cycles are a waste and he's talking out his ass.

why?

what if you can get on, make some quick gains, get off before your bloods go out of whack, recover fast and easy, wait a month or so and pick right back up where you left off?

 

[Jean-Claude]

I disagree with all of that

 

[Austinite]

I disagree with all of that

Could you elaborate?

 

[andyjames]

thanks for responses guys..hes not actually a doctor hes the main guy who runs a steroid clinic/needle exchange round my area he is actually rayed highly aswell as all my mates who compete l/big juice heads reccomended him i just wanted a second opinion he dosnt have testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patients there just.guys like us who start gear and hes there for advice safer injectin etc iv heard so many different things of people about on cycle etrogen that i dont no who to believe im gunna run a 10 week cycle at 400 as it would be a waste throwing away the 2ml i didnt use he also said dont run Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) through cycle till post cycle although some have said run it with your cycle theres so many different opinions its hard to get a fact on what to do thanks for your replys once again and sorry for the newbie stupidity just trying to learn

 

[Juggertha]

Short cycles are a waste and he's talking out his ass.

Funny, my bud that's a pro suggests otherwise. VERY good friend, and he is confident in suggesting a 50 day blitz.

/shrug

I'm sure some on this site will say "No way!", but I've seen the "products of his advice", and IMO, there's worth to it.

 

[joe d]

thanks for responses guys..hes not actually a doctor hes the main guy who runs a steroid clinic/needle exchange round my area he is actually rayed highly aswell as all my mates who compete l/big juice heads reccomended him i just wanted a second opinion he dosnt have testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patients there just.guys like us who start gear and hes there for advice safer injectin etc iv heard so many different things of people about on cycle etrogen that i dont no who to believe im gunna run a 10 week cycle at 400 as it would be a waste throwing away the 2ml i didnt use he also said dont run Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) through cycle till post cycle although some have said run it with your cycle theres so many different opinions its hard to get a fact on what to do thanks for your replys once again and sorry for the newbie stupidity just trying to learn

with many topics that are often talked about on the boards like this one, we only have opinions. no one can give you a factual answer as to which is better for you on periodic cycles between an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and no Aromatase inhibitor (AI). there are pros and cons in both. same with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and the run it throughout, or the blast at the end. how the hell could anyone really know what is better. some things you can learn through trial and error while others you just have to guess lol.

 

[kaname]

im not saying that the doctor is right about it all and for everyone but i can with an open mind see that ai's are bad for you. that elevated estro is also bad but it is more easily brought under control when you stop. again im not really agreeing with him.

as far as the 8 week thing and gains he is right for more people than we will ever know. too many people fall victim to not trying anything different. for me, i learned very early that a 6 week cycle did for me what a 10-12 week cycle did in the long run but it was easier on my health and in every other aspect too. plus it shortened the down time. thats not going to be for everyone though.

and for the nolva bit. well it will work if you start getting gyno symptoms but id be afraid of too much of that too. who knows what is really best.

A 6 week cycle of what?

 

[riprockwell]

i can see all of your points to a degree except the shutdown part. your argument is in the wrong direction. the doctor is saying recovery will be easier because you would not be shutdown as long. this is true. and the easier recovery also helps to keep your gains, minimize unhealthy sides, and let you get back on sooner. not everyone has an issue holding gains after a short blast. i didnt lose a thing for probably my first 5 or 6 short runs.

I can respect your opinion but just like you have your opinion about shutdown, so do I. I think it is really hard to say that shut down is different from an 8 week cycle as compared to a 12 week cycle. Not sure if anyone has factual data to support both of our statements. From my personal experience long ester gear is way better for keeping gains than short cycles and the degree of shutdown is dependent on the person. And what I was getting at was shutdown is shutdown. I define the term shutdown as being shutdown. I don't say "Hey this guy is shut down less than this guy." To me, it's all the same when your natural testosterone is inhibited. And I think anyone who has a lot of cycle experience under their belt can agree that long ester cycles is the way to go. Not saying short esters don't work, but you can't compare your weak 6 week cycle compared to a 12-16 week long ester cycle. On the longer cycle, the gains may be slower, but they are more steady. And because you didn't lose a thing in your first 5-6 runs is foolish to attribute that to gear. We all know how big of a role diet plays. A lot of gains confuse gains and loses with what the scale says. Not being a dick but I think you missed my point. Shutdown is shutdown. I have known guys to run a 20 week cycle and recover and a friend running an 8 week test prop cycle and never recover. Flip a coin is what I am saying. But I will say that long ester test is the way to go if you want more solid gains. Trust me on that.

 

[riprockwell]

with many topics that are often talked about on the boards like this one, we only have opinions. no one can give you a factual answer as to which is better for you on periodic cycles between an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and no Aromatase inhibitor (AI). there are pros and cons in both. same with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and the run it throughout, or the blast at the end. how the hell could anyone really know what is better. some things you can learn through trial and error while others you just have to guess lol.

Correct we have our opinions but we can compile what we have done over the years and realize what works best for most people and what makes the most sense. So as for an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), why wouldn't someone want to control estrogen from the start?? AI's can't do a ton of damage on a 12 week cycle. If you are running them year round, then they need to be something you monitor. I have been on an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) for the last 3 years straight as part of my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) regime. My blood work and health is fine. It always make sense to control estrogen from the start. Lets say this guy cycles and doesn't run an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). During the cycle he experiences some excess water retention and higher blood pressure. Then he realizes he can't get a hard on. Then he starts getting lumps in his nipples. Now he is battling quite a bit of symptoms and now has more of a chance of overdoing the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and tanking his estrogen and battle the symptoms of having his E too low. As for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), some guys run it throughout and some guys blast it at the end. It makes more sense to run it through. Would you rather clean your room every day for 10 minutes and pick up your garbage or would you rather clean it once a month and it take hours for you to clean it. The theory with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is that it is better to keep the horse in the barn rather to chase it across 3 counties. So from that standpoint, it makes more sense to keep your balls from atrophy and have them produce testosterone while on cycle. Besides, when you blast Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at the end in larger amounts, it increases estrogen levels which is the last thing you want. So it makes more sense to shoot it twice per week throughout the cycle. Just because guys can recover from an Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) blast at the end doesn't mean it was smart to not use it throughout the cycle.

 

[German89]

why?

what if you can get on, make some quick gains, get off before your bloods go out of whack, recover fast and easy, wait a month or so and pick right back up where you left off?

Well like someone stated, shut down is shut down.. why do that to yourself? why take on something if you're NOT fully COMMITTED?! Secondly.. Last I checked juice doesn't affect your blood eh, your blood doesn't go out of wack... Most cases its your hormones... They don't go out of wack either and when you stop injecting for the most part, you cannnn control everything that happens after. Thirdly we get lab work done because we check our hormones to make sure our gear is legit and for some of us who run orals, like myself, need to make sure our liver is still good...
(Good work rookie)

A 6 week cycle of what?

anavar only.. lolll

I don't really have an opinion on this since I'm a chick and we run a little differently. I however would suggest a 10-12 weeks cycle for your first time... If you're not committed, then why bother and fuck with your little testies?

 

[Millertime]

why?

what if you can get on, make some quick gains, get off before your bloods go out of whack, recover fast and easy, wait a month or so and pick right back up where you left off?

I read years ago that a strength coach suggested short cycling to maintain better all around gains throughout the year. Sounded great 6 on 6 off. Unfortunatel at the 6 week mark is when your body really starts to grow. So your body's natural test is shut down, body is starting really grow, and you stop to post cycle therapy (pct). Now you go threw pct but whether its a 6 week or 12 week your recovery time is gonna be the same. So after 6 weeks I start right back up, body still not back to normal, again takes 6 weeks to really start to grow and boom you stop again. Your cheating yourself on what you could look like. All your doing is maintaining average. Why do I want to cycle to see average I wanna look great. All I can say is give it a go and give it a fair shot by doing a few. Once you do you'll never short cycle again.

 

[riprockwell]

I read years ago that a strength coach suggested short cycling to maintain better all around gains throughout the year. Sounded great 6 on 6 off. Unfortunatel at the 6 week mark is when your body really starts to grow. So your body's natural test is shut down, body is starting really grow, and you stop to pct. Now you go threw pct but whether its a 6 week or 12 week your recovery time is gonna be the same. So after 6 weeks I start right back up, body still not back to normal, again takes 6 weeks to really start to grow and boom you stop again. Your cheating yourself on what you could look like. All your doing is maintaining average. Why do I want to cycle to see average I wanna look great. All I can say is give it a go and give it a fair shot by doing a few. Once you do you'll never short cycle again.

This is the truth.

 

[halfwit]

Don't know about you guys, but when riprockwell and Millertime have something to say, I'd listen. They've been around the block a few times and know what they're talking about. Sorry OP, but you got really bad advice from your "clinic" guy. Do yourself, and your penis a favor and take the advice in here to heart.

My .02c