Strength Cycle vs Mass Cycle

Hugh Jerection

New member
Newb here. I can use some advice so please weigh in with any insights that you may have.

History: I've run some Test only cycles. I'm a little susceptible to Estrogen sides. I have only done a low dose of Deca once with Test but at the time wasn't sophisticated/informed enough to be thinking about progesterone sides, so not really sure if I have a proclivity for them as well. Needless to say, I'm definitely taking care of myself on this cycle and have already procured my aromasin and Prami for during-cycle, and clomid and nolvadex for post cycle therapy (pct). Planning to order a rescue bottle of Letro with the AAS, and will probably end up getting some HCG as well.

I'm definitely not a body builder. My primary goal is strength: to increase my bench press by 50 pounds. Secondarily, I'd like to add some size in my delts and pecs to give me a more balanced look, as my quads, glutes and abs are pretty thick and tend to overwhelm my look in clothes. I am not lean, so keeping water bloat down would be nice, and any potential fat loss that I could get would be a real bonus.

Here's my question: Would a Test/Deca or a Test/Tren cycle be better for strength gains?

Stats:

Current Bench Press = 365lbs
Desired Bench Press = 405lbs
Ht = 5'9"
Wt = 210
BF = 22%
Age 43

I've read this forum enough to realize that given my low experience level with Deca, the cautious decision would be to go with a medium to heavy Test/Deca cycle, like maybe 500/300 per week or 600/400 per week.

But from what I've read, Tren seems to be thought of as a better strength enhancer and would theoretically be the better choice over Deca, if I knew I could tolerate it. Is this correct?

The thing is, I'm an old married guy, and I can't justify doing cycle after cycle to work my way up. I'll probably just do one this fall, and then another in the spring as a cutting cycle. All the SERMs, AIs, and progesterone inhibitors get expensive, yo. So, obviously I am really leaning toward the tren, and I know many of you are groaning to yourselves right now. But having said all that, let me throw this out there:

What if I started a cycle using Test Cyp 600 / Tren A 300 per week, but had a full course of Deca on hand in case I can't tolerate the Tren side effects? How would you handle a switch from a tren short ester to Deca in the beginning/middle of a cycle?

Is that advisable?
Are these dosages too low to hit my strength goal?
 
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tren for strength 300mg is a good go for first run... im only doing 280mg with a definite increase in strength (in squats) bench hasn't gone up much.. finally was able to have full control over a weight I was stuck on for decline bp tho, so next time itll b a new weight!!!... im only a week in tren too lol (I have been running test prop for almost 4 weeks tho)... the only side ive had so far is very vivid dreams

don't include deca or switch it for deca, get npp (if u must) but wait a week or two for the tren to clear out
 
tren for strength 300mg is a good go for first run... im only doing 280mg with a definite increase in strength (in squats) bench hasn't gone up much.. finally was able to have full control over a weight I was stuck on for decline bp tho, so next time itll b a new weight!!!... im only a week in tren too lol (I have been running test prop for almost 4 weeks tho)... the only side ive had so far is very vivid dreams

don't include deca or switch it for deca, get npp (if u must) but wait a week or two for the tren to clear out
Agree with Tren for strength.

Ur bodyfat is waaaay to high.. I think u need to figure out diet before jumping on the gear bandwagon

Wholeheartedly agree with this. You have a lot more aromatase enzymes so estrogen and water retention management would be difficult. Blood pressure and a host of other concerns would arise.
 
I appreciate this feedback, guys. Btw, I cruise on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) at about 900 ng/dL with no sides. Is there a certain bodyfat percentage that even aromasin Ed wouldn't be able to overcome?

Or, asked in another way, what is the maximum bodyfat allowable going into a Test / Tren cycle of, say 600 / 400? I realize this answer would be highly individualized, but maybe there is a general rule of thumb? In other words, I would appreciate your opinions on a bodyfat percentage target for me to hit before moving forward with a strength cycle.

And, a couple more questions. Is there a safe cutting cycle that wouldn't expose me to too much estrogen? A buddy just found a good source for clen, would this be helpful?

Thanks again!
 
Current pic. My bodyfat % was taken a year ago before TRT. May have lost a percent or two, but probably still in the 20% range.
 
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well he will have more sides but its not shape he is after its strength.... I think :confused:

but now that you say you want to cut look at your diet b4 a cutting cycle... as long as you see your droppin bf off cycle then you know you could manage a real cutter imo
 
Geez. I'm such a noob. Tried to upload from iphone. Maybe this will work:

View attachment 552687
You're not 22%, I'd put you closer to 15% easily. Tren is the king of AAS, but if you plan on going with that - I would most certainly keep reading up on the sides and make DAMN sure you're in a stable place mentally before you begin. Many find good results starting off with a lower test base of say 200-350mg/wk test with 300-450mg/wk of tren. Be sure to start off with an acetate ester as you'll want to be able to pull the plug faster if you find the sides to be overwhelming.

Be sure to take your time when bumping up the tren dose if you feel that you haven't found your "sweet spot" for it yet. The compound sneaks up on you and before you know it - you're frothing at the bit like a wild animal ready to destroy some serious weight and your wife in the sack.

My .02c :)
 
Thanks Halfwit. Definitely plan on using the short ester of Tren, if that's the way I go. And to Austinite's point, I am blessed to have a really great baseline lipid profile (LDL around 90, HDL about 70) and low-normal Blood Pressure, so an 8-10 week spike shouldn't be a major concern. Knock on wood. I'm getting complete hormone and lipid panels done in a couple days as well, and will book another appointment for mid-cycle to compare. If I'm out of bounds on those measures, I'm not afraid to throw on some Crestor and an ACE-Inhibitor for short term peace of mind. I work in the medical field, so an anti-anxiety med or sleeping aid is a phone call away as well.

Let's say I find out that I can't tolerate the side effects of Tren though. Could I discontinue it mid-cycle and dial up some Deca to replace it?
 
im not expert on switched 19 nors but I don't see why not some people run really low deca while on tren for joint health.... but id do npp cause deca will take forever to kick in!!!!
 
Thanks Halfwit. Definitely plan on using the short ester of Tren, if that's the way I go. And to Austinite's point, I am blessed to have a really great baseline lipid profile (LDL around 90, HDL about 70) and low-normal Blood Pressure, so an 8-10 week spike shouldn't be a major concern. Knock on wood. I'm getting complete hormone and lipid panels done in a couple days as well, and will book another appointment for mid-cycle to compare. If I'm out of bounds on those measures, I'm not afraid to throw on some Crestor and an ACE-Inhibitor for short term peace of mind. I work in the medical field, so an anti-anxiety med or sleeping aid is a phone call away as well.

Let's say I find out that I can't tolerate the side effects of Tren though. Could I discontinue it mid-cycle and dial up some Deca to replace it?
Yes, you can certainly do that - but I'd do what palmers suggests and go with NPP for the shorter ester time. I also suggest taking a look at Austinite's supplement thread. He has some really great suggestions in there that will help maximize your cycle results and help to keep your body from being beat up too badly. ;)
im not expert on switched 19 nors but I don't see why not some people run really low deca while on tren for joint health.... but id do npp cause deca will take forever to kick in!!!!

Totally agree with the NPP suggestion, and I plan on doing that in fact with tren and deca in a few months. :D
 
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