Stone
Hazardous
Fr8tren, you migh want to rethink the statement that hyperplasia cannot occur in human... as for whether this happens w/ SEO's I am unsure. I'm not convinced that is what he was trying to say, though. Sounds more like hypertrophy- the SEO fills the fascia for a time, stretching it and the surrounding skin. When it dissipates, the existing muscle tissues/fibers enlarge (hypertrophy) to fill in the space left by the oil dissipating. This process occurs over an extended period of time, though. Don't get the idea that the oil will just drain out all of a sudden and the muscle will just expand to fill it. The collagen in the SEO's make it stick around for months. Like Big A said, that is the main (and really only) difference between site injections of oil based AAS, and SEO's.
While I've never used SEO's I can't vouch for there effectiveness other than the initial volumizing effects (i.e. whether the size is permanent/can be maintained after dissipation). It does make sense to me though that the muscle would work to fill in the area that was stretched given that the proper environment for growth (hormones, macronutrients, excercise, rest, etc...) is in place. I could see how the muscle would respond this way, similar to muscle memory when a person loses size and can gain back old muscle much more effeciently. The body would feel volume leaving, and go to replace it with the only thing it can - muscle protein. Just like AAS, I'm sure this principal wouldn't have a chance in hell without proper care taken to insure that the size stays after the oil leaves, but since it leaves so slowly I can see how it would offer an opportunity for increased growth at the site of the stretched fascia. My guess would be that you could maintain something like 50-75% of the size that the original oil occupied, but even that much could mean some serious gains.
I'm interested to hear from some people that have used SEO's for this purpose, and not simply to balloon up a muscle only to have to keep re-filling it to maintain its size.
I don't really fully understand the immense stigma that goes on with SEO's. Unlike most other size drugs/aids, incorrect use is painfully visible for all to see. Misuse of AAS, peptide hormones, and most all other drugs is completely internal and the mistakes aren't visible like bad SEO application, is one reason for the stigma. The use simply to "blow up" an area is another cause for this. Bodybuilders, unlike the general public, know that even performance enhancing drugs take an immense amount of work in order to exert maximum effects. While SEO's simply require a needle and the will to use in order to add some extra size is another cause.
The funny thing is people are only considered to be using SEO's if they are using them badly. When a person uses them correctly, you shouldn't be able to tell (other than maybe some quick growth if you know the individual). I personally wouldn't have a problem with sporadic use to get over a sticking point with specific muscles with the goal of filling in the oil with real muscle. The problem, or misuse, in my opinion is when use is ongoing and overdone (either too much in one site, or too many sites), where the user has no specific goal (ex. bringing up a specific part that's not responding) other than wanting to be bigger and doesn't want to put in the neccesary work.
While I've never used SEO's I can't vouch for there effectiveness other than the initial volumizing effects (i.e. whether the size is permanent/can be maintained after dissipation). It does make sense to me though that the muscle would work to fill in the area that was stretched given that the proper environment for growth (hormones, macronutrients, excercise, rest, etc...) is in place. I could see how the muscle would respond this way, similar to muscle memory when a person loses size and can gain back old muscle much more effeciently. The body would feel volume leaving, and go to replace it with the only thing it can - muscle protein. Just like AAS, I'm sure this principal wouldn't have a chance in hell without proper care taken to insure that the size stays after the oil leaves, but since it leaves so slowly I can see how it would offer an opportunity for increased growth at the site of the stretched fascia. My guess would be that you could maintain something like 50-75% of the size that the original oil occupied, but even that much could mean some serious gains.
I'm interested to hear from some people that have used SEO's for this purpose, and not simply to balloon up a muscle only to have to keep re-filling it to maintain its size.
I don't really fully understand the immense stigma that goes on with SEO's. Unlike most other size drugs/aids, incorrect use is painfully visible for all to see. Misuse of AAS, peptide hormones, and most all other drugs is completely internal and the mistakes aren't visible like bad SEO application, is one reason for the stigma. The use simply to "blow up" an area is another cause for this. Bodybuilders, unlike the general public, know that even performance enhancing drugs take an immense amount of work in order to exert maximum effects. While SEO's simply require a needle and the will to use in order to add some extra size is another cause.
The funny thing is people are only considered to be using SEO's if they are using them badly. When a person uses them correctly, you shouldn't be able to tell (other than maybe some quick growth if you know the individual). I personally wouldn't have a problem with sporadic use to get over a sticking point with specific muscles with the goal of filling in the oil with real muscle. The problem, or misuse, in my opinion is when use is ongoing and overdone (either too much in one site, or too many sites), where the user has no specific goal (ex. bringing up a specific part that's not responding) other than wanting to be bigger and doesn't want to put in the neccesary work.
vados
New member
Stone said:
IMO if hyperplasia occurred, u wouldnt shrink as much after stopping Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) and GH use completely. Just look at some former pros, how much smaller they become when they quit. If they actually experienced hyperplasia, that muscle would stay there for the most part, IMHO.
fr8tren
New member
Stone, that is what i am saying...the synthol (theoretically) expands the fascia and allows the musle fibers to hypertrophy, not increase the number of fibers (hyperplasia). i have been doing a little research (and i will continue to do so till i am certain) on hyperplasia in humans. so far , scientists are skeptical at best, but a lot of the places i looked deduce that it cannot occur in humans (minus fluke events of course--anything is possible). i am no expert and i may be wrong and i am curious to know if it can happen under "normal" circumstances.
i found this link that from what i gather says it MAY be possible, but they are uncertain. one place mentioned hyperthyroidism MAY cause it (which makes sense if you look at anybody that uses (abuses?) growth hormone. they have elongated faces and limbs (acromegaly), so that may be the case.
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=2;t=884
i found this link that from what i gather says it MAY be possible, but they are uncertain. one place mentioned hyperthyroidism MAY cause it (which makes sense if you look at anybody that uses (abuses?) growth hormone. they have elongated faces and limbs (acromegaly), so that may be the case.
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=2;t=884
fr8tren
New member
http://www.uwlax.edu/faculty/erickson/Powerpoint%20Presentations/411/Lecture%20six%20(chapter%2013).ppt#273,16,Next time…
this is a very easy to understand and informative powerpoint presentation...i hope these links work!!
this is good for you newbies who really want to know what you are doing to yourself every day in the gym, other than for the chickies.
this is a very easy to understand and informative powerpoint presentation...i hope these links work!!
this is good for you newbies who really want to know what you are doing to yourself every day in the gym, other than for the chickies.
David Gilmour
TOOLband.com
fr8tren said:
What program do you use to view this, i tryed Adobe, Notepad, and IE.
Antigua
We Suck.
I voted for never using it.
But who is it that the professional bodybuilders call a freak? Who is the freak's freak? Answer: Greg Valentino. If you don't know Mr. Valentino, check out the pics below (and no, there's no Photoshopping involved):
Looks like his bicep is taking a shit looking like that.
But who is it that the professional bodybuilders call a freak? Who is the freak's freak? Answer: Greg Valentino. If you don't know Mr. Valentino, check out the pics below (and no, there's no Photoshopping involved):
Looks like his bicep is taking a shit looking like that.
N
nateman06
Guest
Valentino has implant genius. Not that I doubt he has used SEO's, but thats not why his arms look like that
drk_diggler
New member
Antigua said:I voted for never using it.
But who is it that the professional bodybuilders call a freak? Who is the freak's freak? Answer: Greg Valentino. If you don't know Mr. Valentino, check out the pics below (and no, there's no Photoshopping involved):
Looks like his bicep is taking a shit looking like that.
They actually call him a jackass.... Not a freak...
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